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  • AADD Moderators: swilow | Vagabond696

Data retention

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SixBuckets

Bluelighter
Joined
Jan 21, 2015
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1,222
So how do we all feel about the Aussie government's new data retention plan? I presume from the fact that you're all still here that you're not too fussed by it.

Gizmodo is running a good series on strategies for keeping your data safe: http://www.gizmodo.com.au/tags/data-retention/

Is anyone using any of these strategies?
 
I'm personally pretty disgusted by it, but am not taking any steps to try to circumvent the data retention.
I have always assumed that there is essentially no anonymity or privacy in digital communications or the online world - so while i resent these laws being implemented for a number of reasons, they won't change how i (personally) use digital technology, as i tend not to conduct any illegal activities online.
 
Yeah - pretty awful. I do actually use a VPN, which encrypts my traffic. I don't use it all the time, as it does typically slow things down a little, and I didn't purchase the service specifically to circumvent DR policy, but it does have that added, bonus effect.

If you're at all concerned - I suggest going the VPN route; it takes 5min to setup and you can pretty much forget about it after that. Typically with a VPN too, you can choose your 'exit server' - which essentially means you can choose which country your IP address is from, which is great for accessing foreign media / Netflix catalogues ;)
 
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There are VPNs and there are VPNs though - it's a good idea, but it's not much help to you using a VPN to evade data retention if the VPN provider is themselves retaining your data. I foresee a huge glut of mediocre VPN providers on the market as people become more aware of data retention and what it could mean.
 
^^^ exactly what SixBuckets said.

Personally for the most part, I'm not concerned. As Spacejunk put it I've always just played by the assumption there is no anonymity. Using something like TOR as far as I'm concerned is similar to SWIMming, only perhaps another level of vagueness about what it is SWIM is doing. Encrypted VPNs are the only real way to go about it, and then you really need to ensure you're going with the right VPN provider - one that doesn't retain data, is owned/hosted outside Aus/USA (preferably by a country who doesn't give 2 fks for 'western governments' etc), and use an exit point in a country that as just stated - doesn't give 2 fks for western government. lol.


Ultimately unless you're really willing to put in the effort to cover your tracks ACROSS THE BOARD, you're SWIMming at best :(
 
SixBuckets said:
There are VPNs and there are VPNs though - it's a good idea, but it's not much help to you using a VPN to evade data retention if the VPN provider is themselves retaining your data. I foresee a huge glut of mediocre VPN providers on the market as people become more aware of data retention and what it could mean.
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yeah. do your research, you're absolutely right. I choose PIA after extensive research and I'm quite confident they don't retain anything/logs.

edit: Worth mentioning actually, if you choose a good, privacy orientated VPN that trash all their network logs immediately, then it doesn't actually really matter any more if they co-operate with LE, since even if they comply and turn over 'everything' they have, it's moot - since they've trashed it all in real time.
 
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I'm much more concerned about "meta data" under this legislation including GPS location data from my mobile phone. If only it wasn't so difficult and annoying, I'd leave it at home whenever I was going anywhere 'suspicious'.
 
I'm just curious as to what sort of data you are concerned about?

even as far back as the landline days I've always treated any form of electronic communication as if it was wired. As they say if you have something to hide then don't use a mobile or computer.
 
Even the knowledge that we are potentially being monitored or able to be monitored retrospectively can be a form of control.
For people that wanted to run for public office (to use just one example) - the knowledge that something in their private or past life being used against them could be a hinderance.
Or, more directly, someone sticking their neck out against a government or powerful individual could find their personal dirty laundry aired for all to see.

Knowledge is power, and potential for corruption in the face of large amounts of data being retained is very real.
Show me someone that doesn't have a kink that could potentially be used against them in the court of public opinion.
It doesn't need to be illegal or serious to be used against you.
 
Surely those people who do run for office should be strictly bound by the laws of the land. Your argument makes me think that having such checks in place would prevent those open to corruption from applying to such positions.

Reality is we have lived in a digital age for decades. It is near impossible for any ones movements not to be tracked to some degree using cctv, atm/eftpos record, even toll roads take photos and record licence plates already. A healthy prospective is required otherwise paranoia will reign. Every photo on your mobile has meta data embedded, your phone bills record who and for how long you phone and text someone. If you don't want people knowing your business then expel yourself from all technology. Good luck with that by the way.

Far more concerning is China's plan to track, monitor and then rate it's citizens using pluses and minuses, thus controlling basic human privileges such as job and loan applications using a scorecard.
 
I know you're playing the devil's advocate and trying to get a rise, but I don't necessarily disagree with you.
What i am saying is that very few of us are above reproach - and that use of technology could potentially be used against citizens for any number of reasons.
There's nothing paranoid in pointing out the potential danger of governments having access to years' worth of people's metadata.
 
I'm not saying I am happy about it either, but reality is as soon as we started using a phone, law enforcement started to listen to our calls. I prefer to think of it as a game, a law is made and I find a way to avoid it. I can see the benefits for such laws for crimes I feel should be enforced, and see them as intrusive for ones I care to break. And so the circle repeats...
 
spacejunk said:
I know you're playing the devil's advocate and trying to get a rise, but I don't necessarily disagree with you.
What i am saying is that very few of us are above reproach - and that use of technology could potentially be used against citizens for any number of reasons.
There's nothing paranoid in pointing out the potential danger of governments having access to years' worth of people's metadata.
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You're spot on.

I go in and out of phases of feeling ok about all this; sometimes I get riled up and other times I say 'Oh, this is nothing that will affect me'.

Complacency is what gets you in the end.. Sure, right now this data-retention might not mean much, to the average non-corrupt / law-abiding citizen. But things can change rapidly, what happens if our government shifts rapidly into fascism? Couldn't happen? Well - it has happened before, in may places and can take many forms.

But, that is when we're truly screwed - things now in Australia that may be viewed as "moderate left-wing ideology" right now, may soundly be deemed 'a subversive terrorist conspiracy' tomorrow..
 
mostly-human said:
Complacency is what gets you in the end.. Sure, right now this data-retention might not mean much, to the average non-corrupt / law-abiding citizen. But things can change rapidly, what happens if our government shifts rapidly into fascism? Couldn't happen? Well - it has happened before, in may places and can take many forms.
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One Thousand Words said:
This is pretty cool

http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-po...and-gadgets-block-face-recognition-technology

I am all for an increase in Ziggy stardust make up trend
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So where were the Spiders, while the fly tried to break our balls?

Makes all the more sense that Bowie was - in his many guises - inspired by dystopian Orwellian ideas and JG Ballard...
 
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I generally hate slippery slope arguments, but what makes you think that the Australian government can be trusted to only use the laws allowing them to store literally everyone's data for two years at a time for only the purposes they say they will?
The most requests for data are already made by institutions like the ATO, Centrelink and local councils, not law enforcement. I'm actually not such a fan of the current status quo around things like low rates of income support that forces people into blackmarket economies, or state-based restrictions on industries like sex work that force people to hide their income and where they work. And can you guarantee this data will never be made available to insurers, or used to squash political activism?
No one's denying that surveillance hasn't been a thing for a long, long time, but that's definitely not an excuse to be concerned when it becomes easier and more oppressive.
 
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