Dangers of 25i vasoconstriction?

[yung]

So I have taken 25i once (one blotter dosed at what I believe to be ~1mg) after reading an extensive amount about it here and elsewhere. I had a great time, with a very low body load comparable to what I've come to expect from LSD in my (limited) experience with that drug. I thought at the time that I had experienced slight vasoconstriction during the trip, although now I suspect otherwise; my feet did seem colder to the touch, but I was barefoot in an air-conditioned house, and it seems more likely to me now that any differences were imagined.

In any case, because I had read about vasoconstriction beforehand, I felt like I was experiencing it during the trip, and despite having a great time I was always slightly worried about it (climaxing at one point when I felt like my sock-and-shoe-sheathed foot was numb and frozen; when I took my sock off it turned out I had completely imagined the loss of sensation). I think some of my fear stems from reading the stories about Bromo-Dragonfly and its long-lasting vasoconstriction leading to gangrene. Anyway, I want to take this drug again, but this fear of amputation lingers. In all my time reading about 25i, vasoconstriction tends to be brought up as nothing more than a nuisance, which I'm fine with. My question is, are there any documented stories of people on normal doses of 25i experiencing vasoconstriction severe enough to be an emergency?

P.S. I will say for the sake of completeness that, in the few days after my trip, I felt a slight dull pain on the bottom of my foot (not skin-deep; felt like it was on the bone maybe) that had me really paranoid that I'd gotten gangrene. However, the pain never increased in intensity, and it only hurt when I applied pressure to that part of my foot. After a couple of days of walking sort of on the side of my foot, it went away completely, and hasn't bothered me since. I'm guessing this might have just been a stress fracture resulting from the fact that I did a lot of running/jumping around during my trip, but I really have no idea. Anybody experience anything similar?

P.P.S. Also I wasn't sure if this belonged in the B&D thread or not. If so feel free to move it there!

 

[zn13bt]

You're right, the vasoconstriction on NBOMes doesn't seem to be as severe as with bromo-dragonfly, or even with mephedrone. Mostly people report their extremities getting cold to the touch on higher doses, but rarely does anyone get their skin changing color and nobody's had to have any fingers or toes amputated. Also I think some users who are new to tripping may be incorrectly referring to their feelings of muscle stimulation as vasoconstriction, but those effects would be normal on any psychedelic.

I haven't tripped much on NBOMes since last summer, but when I was doing them, I would usually put on some socks or a hoodie a few hours into the trip and have a mug of hot cocoa towards the end when it was wearing off, and that would be enough to make me feel fine.

 

[kidklmx]

Most, if not all, fatalities came from seizures as far as I'm aware. Just don't randomly double your dose, but slowly work your way up. A bit of vasoconstriction isn't that strange from 1mg (and IME less severe than a good dose of MDMA), so don't worry too much.

Another thing, if you really focus on a possible side-effect, there's a good chance you'll get it. I don't have any anecdotes myself, but I remember someone on here saying that those who had read up a lot on 2C-E got really nauseous if he dosed them, but the psychedelic naive would never get any side-effects. And even then it might just be psychosomatic, being bare-foot in an air-conditioned home doesn't help either.

 

[Solipsis]

It is possible paraesthesia is also involved as well as psychedelic effects on proprioception, greatly enhancing any subtle effects had from vasoconstriction (which is naturally first felt in the extremities)...

I didn't really expect vasoconstriction from use of 25D and 25C - it was a while ago when there was not this much extensive reporting on the substance series - but I got it anyway, indeed strong enough to made my feet feel so cold that it dominated more than half the duration of the trip.

 

[thizzkid]

Hey there; so having done 25b, 25c and 25i nbome, i would say that 25i and 25c give the most vasoconstriction, but like everyone is saying, in the doses I've taken (up to 1200ug for 25c and 1500ug for 25i) I have never experienced anything more than slightly colder extremities and flushes of temperature. However, there was one experience when I combined 1000ug of 25i and 800ug of 25c and that time I both got too high (something you don't hear from me often) and during this time I started getting really really bad vasoconstriction which freaked me out especially knowing how high i was. I was on a pleasure bike ride taking a break when I noticed a tightening and tingling in the back of my calves which wasnt quite painful per say, but it kinda stung and my muscles kept tightening up. I knew what vasoconstriction was at that point in my life too, so I kind of knew what was happening which scared me. To remedy it i decided to keep riding to keep the blood flowing in my legs and that helped until I could get home and smoke some weed (natural vasodilator) and then soak my legs in my hot-tub which eventually made them feel normal again after about 2 hours since the first hint of vasoconstriction, but it was scary being that high on a drug you know is sketchy and having that bad of vasoconsriction.

 

[zn13bt]

^ I guess I should mention that the one time I tried an NBOMe combo (500ug of 25I with 300ug of 25C) my hands and feet got really cold to the touch and they turned a reddish-purple color for several hours. It was a lot worse than what I had ever experienced on either substance alone.

 

[kidklmx]

^Read a bunch of reports stating that, but I didn't note the same when I combined the 2. Had a combo blotter 25i/25c on it, but I think there is something wrong with my sublingual technique so I'm not sure on the dosages of that, but the experience was comparable to 500-600ug of 25i alone, and I added about 400ug of 25c.

 

[.:Holy::Toast:.]

I've never noticed 25i or 25c to be particularly vasoconstricting, and I've combined both before.
I may have had cold hands a few times but that's it, and not near as bad as what I've had on 2ce

 

[slo mo]

With people concerned about vasoconstriction, are there tried remedies for these compounds to alleviate the vasoconstriction? Also, if the vasoconstriction is progressing at an alarming rate, would an atypical antipsychotic end the vasoconstriction as quick as it would end the trip?

 

[kidklmx]

Pre-loading magnesium seems to help with a lot of people, so that could be worth looking in to. Alcohol and weed are vasodilators, and they work, but seeing as they're both psychoactive it's not really a perfect fix. I think the vasoconstriction is related to the receptor binding, so an anti-psychotic could help, but I'm not sure entirely and they're not exactly fun

EDIT: Yeah, when you note the vasoconstriction the damage is done, so it probably doesn't help.

 

[.:Holy::Toast:.]

With people concerned about vasoconstriction, are there tried remedies for these compounds to alleviate the vasoconstriction? Also, if the vasoconstriction is progressing at an alarming rate, would an atypical antipsychotic end the vasoconstriction as quick as it would end the trip?

I've heard of niacin (vitamin B3) helping in some cases, not sure of how many to take but maybe 2-3 capsules. I remember when I was trying to pass a drug test my parents were giving me for pot I read that niacin might help, so I took about four and my face and body became very flushed and itchy.
And I'm not sure if antipsychotics would end vasoconstriction, but I highly doubt it

 

[Sir Ron Pib]

I haven't done this stuff so it's hard to assess but I am curious; Amphetamine and cocaine are well know, widely used and fairly reliable vasoconstrictors; the problem is once the idea is out there as a meme it can self fulfill especially on a psychedelic; ie it's very easy to feel a side effect if your looking for it and it can be more worrying in that state

 

[ebola?]

I was on a pleasure bike ride taking a break when I noticed a tightening and tingling in the back of my calves which wasnt quite painful per say, but it kinda stung and my muscles kept tightening up. I knew what vasoconstriction was at that point in my life too, so I kind of knew what was happening which scared me. when I took my sock off it turned out I had completely imagined the loss of sensation

Pre-loading magnesium seems to help with a lot of people, so that could be worth looking in to.

The efficacy of this remedy suggests that people are mistaking muscle tensions for vasoconstriction.

ebola