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    Empathogenic
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Crystal Methamphetamine

ebola? said:
I find a solid dose of meth, taken orally, to resemble MDMA in several ways, including the character of the body high (albeit far milder, but still delicious). However, instead of empathetic opening, you receive egocentric urgency directing your toward others. MDMA is what meth wishes that it could be. ;)

Please also keep in mind that I find MDMA very stimulating.

ebola
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yea. MDMA in the begining for me had a beautiful kind of feeling, that went away after the first few rolls... :(

hopefully ill get that back after not rolling for over one year
 
but i guess what it all comes down to it is, Meth isnt for everybody. Just like E isnt for everybody..

In my experience, I assumed that any E user would like Meth as well being that I think its easier to handle and has a great high, but over the years, ive been proven very wrong
 
buttholepleasures said:
in my opinion, since its a very easy drug to produce/buy, THATS the real reason why its very addictive, but again, like i said before, if MDMA was just as cheap as Meth, it would just as... if not, WAY more addictive than Meth,
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Woah there brother. Your way off the mark.

Meth is an addictive drug.

MDMA is not an addictive drug.


Both have the power to cause physical and mental problems.

Meth when taken as an addict would use it will fuck you over both mentally and physically.

Mdma when taken to much will tend to lose its fun really quick which in turn makes it not much fun to use so if anything its anti addictive. However it can also cause some mental and physical problems although these dont appear to happen to everyone and certainly not to the extent that meth does........in fact not even close.
 
Ive tried meth. Its a really nice high although it felt kinda dirty but that could have been the people i was with. Just alot of euphoria, talking alot, and stimulation. I was prepared to do it like once a month then i crashed. The crash is the only situation where there is nothing positive about it. There are positives and negatives in every situation with a meth crash thats not the case. I dont believe in hell but i would describe it as a meth crash. You feel the worst you can feel and you get VERY paranoid and to keep yourself from completely freaking out with paranoia you have to have something on tv. It cant be anything important or youll get paranoid so put on the shopping channel or something. You feel like shit for a week or so aftewards. It raises your ego and makes you think your way cool when your not too.
 
MazDan said:
Woah there brother. Your way off the mark.

Meth is an addictive drug.

MDMA is not an addictive drug.


Both have the power to cause physical and mental problems.

Meth when taken as an addict would use it will fuck you over both mentally and physically.

Mdma when taken to much will tend to lose its fun really quick which in turn makes it not much fun to use so if anything its anti addictive. However it can also cause some mental and physical problems although these dont appear to happen to everyone and certainly not to the extent that meth does........in fact not even close.
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damn, i wrote a pretty gnarly reply but it didnt post it. ill make this one smaller

what exactly makes Meth addictive, what constitues as a Meth "withdrawl"?
its obvious that its not a physical addiction, it isnt, its not like heroine, so, is it the euphoria? the being able to stay up for a long time? that concentrated feeling you get? all of the above?

so why isnt MDMA addictive? of course, its addictive, veeery addictive, but people do tend to deffend the drug due to its sense of beauty it gives a person, they take it and think wow the world is soo much better, theres soo much to the world. none the less its addictive, it has the same properties,
theres a euphoria involved, u can sleep but many choose not too, hallucinations, etc

its "anti addictive" properties are shared with Meth, albeit different, any sane person would interpret auditory hallucinations and a very nervous like come down as a means to not abuse the drug

I think its the circumstances, all about the circumstances:

Areas that are infested with meth are cities that have a lot of poverty, harlem? any hick vill? people are poor there, their lives are filled with bullshit 24 hours a day. A few choose to get rich so they start selling a drug that has a great high to it and is easy fairly easy to produce. They stop producing meth, and find a way to produce MDMA just as easily and cheap, boom, ur gonna have just as much of a problem. thats my opinion though

but MDMA is addictive, no one, can argue that, its impossible, where does the addiction line cross? many E users here brag about being able to take 10 pills a night, wouldnt that be addiction?
 
This is my personal opinion on meth...ITS EVIL!!! I'm from the midwest and i was addicted to meth(shards) for 5 years, i've seen it ruin countless peoples lives(alot of my good friends). Shard abuse will turn you into a totally different person the more you use and the longer you stay up. The paranoia and the drugs effect on my mind continue to affect me to this day.

I also used to abuse MDMA, and while the body load from meth and mdma abuse are both pretty bad, meth was by far more physically addictive then mdma for me. I still use mdma but only like a couple times a year, and the day after i'm left with no real desire or urge to keep doing it and thats why i continue to use(plus pure mdma is a beautiful thing). But if i were to try meth, i might as well go buy some more glass rods and a crack torch, because no one would be seeing me for quite awhile.

Meth is not just in cities its all over rural areas, rich suburban areas, shit when i used to sell it i made the most money at the private college campuses(rich kids), basically everyones getting tweeked here.

Be very careful with meth, it will take over and consume you, my friends and I who went through that whole mess and aren't in prison or dead call meth the only thing that really sums up what it is...the devil.

This is just my personal account and opinion on this, if you feel you can do meth responsibly more power to ya, but good luck. be safe
 
I appreciate your point, but I think there's a line between a substance which has pharmacological reasons for being addictive and one which doesn't (for the most part). This is in addition to your excellent reasons about why people who are characterized as "meth users" become addicted.

Meth is a hugely dopaminergic drug, and thus directly stimulates the reward pathways of the brain. It reacts well to redosing and has a long duration, whereas MDMA barely reacts to redosing and leaves you irrecoverably at baseline once your 4-6 hours are up. A drug that acts primarily on serotonin can't hope to equal the longevity of a dopaminergic drug simply because 5-HTR receptors downregulate quickly in comparison to DA receptors. This mediates addictive behavior, because one can't use MDMA to get a continuous high in a short period. Meth, on the other hand, not only allows one to redose, but provides a primal impetus for doing so, one as compelling and irrefutable as eating or having sex, since dopamine controls these basic urges as well. As for the people you mention who are popping ten pills a night, they're not doing it because it's sustaining their high, but out of a mounting sense of desperation for a psychological state that's slipping away from them. All they have is taking pills as their only illusory means of retaining it. This is partially why I think comedowns from MDMA become increasingly horrible -- as you get deeper into dependence on the drug for a psychological state, its ability to meet that need diminishes, leaving you with a fundamental sense of powerlessness.

Yes, MDMA has a high psychologically addictive potential, but then again so does any pleasurable activity. It's nowhere near the same as directly stimulating the reward pathway, which is effectively like short-circuiting the pleasure reaction and the "push-the-button-again" behavior. There's a reason that rats will rather die than eat when allowed to administer intravenous morphine -- it's because they're literally being hardwired to equate the ultimately "right thing to do" with pressing the button.

Nevertheless, any of these things can be overcome through force of will (or perhaps just good genetics, luck, etc.). One must admit in any case that a drug's pharmacological profile does influence its potential for abuse above and beyond the circumstances of its use. I agree that meth has been unfairly demonized, and I agree that it does have compelling uses and can be used responsibly, but I argue that the threshold beyond which its use becomes abuse is significantly lower than MDMA.
 
RGB said:
Yes, MDMA has a high psychologically addictive potential, but then again so does any pleasurable activity. It's nowhere near the same as directly stimulating the reward pathway, which is effectively like short-circuiting the pleasure reaction and the "push-the-button-again" behavior. There's a reason that rats will rather die than eat when allowed to administer intravenous morphine -- it's because they're literally being hardwired to equate the ultimately "right thing to do" with pressing the button.

Nevertheless, any of these things can be overcome through force of will (or perhaps just good genetics, luck, etc.). One must admit in any case that a drug's pharmacological profile does influence its potential for abuse above and beyond the circumstances of its use. I agree that meth has been unfairly demonized, and I agree that it does have compelling uses and can be used responsibly, but I argue that the threshold beyond which its use becomes abuse is significantly lower than MDMA.
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Well, yes, maybe chemically speaking, Meth is easier to redose, although most Meth users I think can agree that its not always like the first time, it does change, just like MDMA, so that may be a good point as to why Meth has more of a potential to be addictive, but I dont think its that much of a difference really. Their both drugs that induce extreme euphoria.

note : the meth high doesnt stay the same, the negative side effects do increase, and they dont go away by redosing

Like you said, MDMA has a potential, that is high, for psychological addiction (as is a meth addiction, it isnt physical) I dont think its as easy as if well anything thats pleasurable is 'just as addictive'. I think since its a drug, it has a higher potential than most activities that can give pleasure to an individual. A sex addict, be it as hard as he can try, wont be able to have sex 20 times a day, but you know what it looks like im going to ramble on again on my reasons why MDMA and Meth share many pros and cons.. I should stop bothering people with em...

My main poits are the following, I think Meth and MDMA are very similar, in the pros, and cons. A Meth user would be just as likely to become addicted to MDMA given the right circumstances.

and finally

Many MDMA users cloud their minds by thinking Meth, coke, Alcohol are all terrible substances, while not realizing MDMA is very addictive itself and can cause a lot of harm. How many of us can actually tell someone who is about to try MDMA... chances are ull think its a so-so drug, its impossible, it has a wonderful high. Just like Meth has a wonderful high.

I am however a very open minded person, Im not trying to bullzhiznat any drug user.
 
^
It's all about moderation man, meth isn't for trash. That's a fucking stupid thing to say.
 
I've used meth in 9th grade of high school, it was the VERY first drug I have ever tried. I didn't get addicted and I sure as hell smoked it right because I got high off that shit.

It's weird how everything all worked out though, I'm 17 now and all the meth heads I know graduated, and the e-tards I know dropped out.
 
Yea its a common misconception that only "Trash" use meth. Its a normal drug that a few have been known to be able to handle and take in moderation, loads of (mainly) poor people, get addicted too...

Few have also been known too just take ecstasy once...
 
iv done it a number of times and yes i would have to say the high was the best feeling ever,but it was almost too good , like i knew nothing would ever feel that good ever again , the high was a good 10-12 hours then came the feanding, needing, wanting a few more hits, but the come down for me was pure hell my first time to do it i was UP for 36-42 hours off of 12 hits(smoked) . i lost my mind - i couldnt relax couldnt even leave my room , my heart was going nuts everything was freeking me out id get strange sensations all over my body, ran a feaver -long story short i lost it on the comedown but i still found myself thinking about it all the time -and i ended up doing it a few more times , always the same in the end tweakin out and the kinds of ppl that u meet in the life of meth were so scary hardcore ppl that only cared for them selvs- not that all meth users r this way/ took me a year to forget all the *fun*/horror of just a few times i used meth

but as its been said before few ppl have done herowin,or coke, or ice to xplor thier mind, thats were weed and acid and x and shrooms come in
xtc however i had a blast and a half on the first time i took it and guess wut , it was cut with meth it was great fun all night but wen i got home i couldnt sleep or eat . i prefer xtc over meth any day but not because its more intence but rather cause it is a bit safer less of a comedown, and its not as addictive at all

but abuss of either subtance is where the danger lies, too much meth for me its more of a matter of my body shutting down, too much x is a real mind fuk both take time to recover from, and both can cause horrible long term effects
 
I really don't see the point of all of this... are you trying to convince me to go out a try some meth? I don't really see meth as a recreational, and the SOLE purpose of MDMA is it's recreational value. You don't think meth is addictive? Why don't you go take a look at the other drugs section of this forum and tell me otherwise after reading a little more. I don't want to depend on anything like that. LSD, Shrooms, Marijuana, MDMA, 2c-b, etc, are all recreational drugs. When you start getting into methamphetamines, amphetamines, opiates, anti-depressants, that's when you're taking on a much different habbit. It's possible to use each recreationaly but it's also very habit forming. Withdrawls come into place after much less use then my previous mentioned drugs. Psychadelics are use more for their mind expanding qualities, for the expression that becomes possible while intoxicated, and although MDMA might not be classified under psychadelics, I still feel its very much related. I don't feel like I could take meth and do any positive soul searching or anything of benefit to myself. Having mdma thats been adulterated with meth, the come down is an entire day of pure terror, sweats, chills, shakes, inability to sleep, hunger loss, paranoia, all signs of withdrawl... after one use! I take MDMA, and feel BETTER for atleast one day afterwords.

I don't understand why you're pushing this drug, especially in this forum. This is a website created for the sole intention of safety amongst those who use drugs, and to try and minimalize the risks of doing so. It's about making people understand what they are doing and then presenting themselves the chance to be informed before they continue to do their drug of choice. It isn't here for anyone to premote how awesome drugs are, and I really hope this thread becomes shut down. You're basically trying to convince anyone whos done mdma that meth is okay, and sorry pal, but it isnt. Not health wise, not pyschologicaly, not in any way. What you choose to do is your choice, don't premote others to try it.
 
Stereo, I think it was useful -- we got a lot of good, real-life replies on how meth negatively impacted people's lives. The OP was correct in that a lot of E users assume that meth is a "bad drug", but I think this thread had challenged and reaffirmed that assumption. Pharmacologically speaking, I think the two are comparable. Meth and MDMA are both amphetamine analogues, and they both reverse the action of reuptake inhibitors. Meth just happens to be strongly dopaminergic and brutally effective, which apparently makes all the difference in terms of its addiction profile.

Personally, I don't believe that there is such thing as a "bad drug"; even a drug like methamphetamine has something to offer. Any disturbance from one's natural state helps to more clearly define the boundaries of that state and meth, like any other psychoactive drug, definitely does disturb the natural state.

As always, there's a risk/benefit ratio, and meth is *strongly* skewed in risk direction. In the spirit of harm minimization, I agree, people should avoid meth; it's simply not worth the risk. Nevertheless, one must admit that it's just a drug -- it's not good or evil in and of itself, and has use both medicinally and for (albeit limited) self-exploration.
 
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