yeah I got that feeling too from traveling and it doesn't help our laws reflect our attitudes which is probably what really shocked a lot of people I met.
countries most obvious differences in drug culture
- Thread starter smooch0
- Start date
yeah I got that feeling too from traveling and it doesn't help our laws reflect our attitudes which is probably what really shocked a lot of people I met.
Oxycondone
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Jan 20, 2011
- Messages
- 424
Yeh I find that as well however I notice a huge difference between how H is viewed here in Aus compared to America (where it seems to be much less stigmatised than say meth). And here on the westside I have hardly ever even encountered H or many opiates at all on that note, yet every other drug I can think of is readily available.
Oxycondone
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Jan 20, 2011
- Messages
- 424
Mmm my first ever hit of the green was with a bucket bong (in WA). Haven't seen many around recently, though I'm not big in the semi-open house party scene as I used to be.
First few times I smoked weed was through a bucky, and they're still tied with spots for my favourite way of smoking.
Forgot to mention before, I lived in Singapore for a few years and drugs weren't as hard as I thought they would be to come by. I've met quite a few opiate users, and heroin/buprenorphine/codeine syrup was easy to procure. I never did find anyone who used psychedelics there though, stims were also quite common but I've only come across Meth. Cannabis is available as well, but the quality I had was pretty mediocre. DXM and Codeine/Promethazine cough syrup was also common.
Generally, the locals who were drug users were usually from the Malay population. I wouldn't recommend anyone trying to source drugs in Singapore though, the laws and penalties are brutal.
Forgot to mention before, I lived in Singapore for a few years and drugs weren't as hard as I thought they would be to come by. I've met quite a few opiate users, and heroin/buprenorphine/codeine syrup was easy to procure. I never did find anyone who used psychedelics there though, stims were also quite common but I've only come across Meth. Cannabis is available as well, but the quality I had was pretty mediocre. DXM and Codeine/Promethazine cough syrup was also common.
Generally, the locals who were drug users were usually from the Malay population. I wouldn't recommend anyone trying to source drugs in Singapore though, the laws and penalties are brutal.
Last edited:
^ yeah I had a few singaporean friends who would use drugs in singapore. however, they would never dream of being publicly under the influence of something noticeable like ecstacy. they led me to believe there were undercover cops in nightclubs on the look out for drug use.
Oxycondone
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Jan 20, 2011
- Messages
- 424
That would freak me out even if I was 100% sober!
To be honest, I was intoxicated quite often in public as the majority of the public are completely unaware of drug effects. I really enjoyed roaming around orchard, and the central business district whilst half conscious in an opiated state of mind.
But yea, the drug scene is quite discreet and definitely harder to get into.
I'm a regular at some of the seedier bars and clubs but I don't think I've really noticed many undercover cops on the lookout for drug users. I can't be certain though.
An acquaintance did got caught for purchasing bud though. I haven't kept up with the details of his charge etc, but getting caught with drugs in S.E Asia is probably one of my biggest fears.
But yea, the drug scene is quite discreet and definitely harder to get into.
I'm a regular at some of the seedier bars and clubs but I don't think I've really noticed many undercover cops on the lookout for drug users. I can't be certain though.
An acquaintance did got caught for purchasing bud though. I haven't kept up with the details of his charge etc, but getting caught with drugs in S.E Asia is probably one of my biggest fears.
Last edited:
I have, but this was mostly in the Geylang area where I figure that the cop's priorities are more focussed towards stopping illegal prostitution and just the general sales of contraband cigs.
I heard it was either 7 or 14 grams, this happened quite a while back. I think around October 2011.
Lychee
Greenlighter
- Joined
- Feb 22, 2012
- Messages
- 30
I've experienced a few different drug cultures here in Australia because this country is so multicultural and different races will have different drug cultures.
My white Aussie friends mainly drink and smoked weed, now and then they would smoke abit of ice but only like special occasions and going out to town or clubbing they would eat lollies. Most of my Aussie mates smokes weed everyday and its like part of their life, they wake and bake and pretty much do everything stoned. When it wears off they just rage up more bongs to maintain stoned so they would be stoned 24/7 and they always smoke 15-20 bongs in a single session. I can't smoke that many bongs lol, sinking 4 or 5 bong would hit me pretty hard anymore and it would just knock me out. Even like the Aussie girls were hardcore bong heads and smoked more bongs then I did.
The Aussie drug culture was really chilled and very relaxing because they didn't go or do much it and hardly ever do anything to be paranoid about. It was mainly raging up at someones house, buy a carton, going to the local pubs or going to some random house party because they knew someone at that party. During the younger days when we weren't 18 yet and had very little money, the Aussie guys would always buy a goon sack and packet of White Ox rollies and fuck me I hated the goon sack and the White Ox it was fucking horrible wine and shitty tasting White OX but it was cheap and it pretty much got everyone shitfaced from the goon sack and everyone had cigarettes to smoke.
Nowadays where I live a lot of the Aussie kids growing up are starting to into ice, its like the latest drug craze. They all chip in like for like a point and then they would go off and smoke it between 4 or 5 guys in a light globe.
The Asians have such a different culture compared to the Aussies. They smoked weed as well but very little compared the Aussie guys, the Asians particularly the Viets go harder on the drugs and at a younger age too. When my Aussie mates were just starting to get into weed, my Viet mates at around the same time were getting into heroin and whacking up. This was like mainly due to hanging around the older Asian guys and being influenced by them. Pretty much most of the Viets I know that is in the drug scene whack up heroin.
I got into the heroin scene at the same time too but I didn't like it, I hated the noddyness and that heavy down feeling of heroin it just made me sick most of the time so I didn't get hooked on it as much as the Viet boys. The Viet drug culture is like the most hardcore and riskiest I've experienced. They loved to whack up and their philosophy is "anything that is water soluble is whackable" , the needle was pretty much the only tool to take drugs because the effects would hit you the hardest with smaller amounts of gear, the Viet boys were really efficient and knew how to make most of the gear that they had. It was also sometimes scary and I would get abit paranoid on rare occasions being with the Viet boys, these guys were reckless in alot of ways, they would usually pull up in like a side street after scoring the gear and like whack up right there and then in the car just a street from the dealer house and sometimes certain areas would be red hot with petrol cars cruising around too. Depending on the location of where the dealers are we would whack up in all sorts of places and most of the time in the car at shopping mall and pub car parks and alot of the time in our school and uni car park just before going into classes and lectures.
The Viet guys are some of the craftiest and cunning fellas I knew, always coming up with money making schemes to score drugs, most of the time it involved stealing or shoplifting lol. The Viet guys were probably the pro-est guys I know at stealing. They would walk in to shopping centres, equipped with the necessary tools and they could steal just about anything they wanted. They knew how to take of those beepers on expensive clothes in places like Myers and David Jones, they even knew how to take off those colour dyes that burst if you tamper with it and they got away with it like 95% of the time. I even remember one time, one of them was even casually walking out of like Dick Smiths carrying brand new 40ich LCD T.V's still in its box straight out the door.
When it came to police business the Viet guys were unbreakable, if one of them got busted for anything that guy would keep his mouth shut all the way and not dog out the others out, even when it is evidently clear that other people were involved in what ever it was, the guy that got busted wouldn't even say a single word let alone naming any names.
My Chinese friends were mainly into the ecstasy and special k if it was available. They didn't smoke weed everyday like the Aussie and never crossed the line with the needles like the Viets but they went hard on the ecstasy and special k on the weekends. They would smoke weed too but like only just to try it and see how its like, none of them knew how to smoke a bong properly and always never sinking a whole cone usually losing breath and coughing their lungs out which was fucking hilarious to watch. I didn't hang out with the Chinese guys as much as the Aussies and Viets, they aren't hard into the drug scene but they were willing to like try everything at least once.
Every time when I was with them I never had to pay for any drugs which was awesome because I usually got them hookups, so they always shouted me everything. The only times when I was with the Chinese guys was on the weekends at the clubs and bars, on normal days I only see them at school and uni but they would do their own Chinese thing with themselves but come Friday night or sometimes Thursday night they always called me up to come out. I probably had the most fun with the Chinese crew even though I didn't see them much, mainly because of the free pills and like they always had hot Chinese girls in with them which was awesome because 99.99% of the time it was pretty much guaranteed that I would get it in with a Chinese girl that night. When them Chinese girls are peaking on pills they become totally different creatures and with the mix of alcohol, they pretty much beg you to get it in with them.
Overall different races and cultures have their own drug culture, for me it was a fun and valuable experience being part of 3 very different drug cultures growing up. Each drug culture had their good and bad and experiences and unique aspects, and along the way I learned many new things about drugs from each of these cultures. I hope to experience and be apart of more drug cultures in my lifetime because I find it very fascinating and extremely fun learning about new things about drugs.
My white Aussie friends mainly drink and smoked weed, now and then they would smoke abit of ice but only like special occasions and going out to town or clubbing they would eat lollies. Most of my Aussie mates smokes weed everyday and its like part of their life, they wake and bake and pretty much do everything stoned. When it wears off they just rage up more bongs to maintain stoned so they would be stoned 24/7 and they always smoke 15-20 bongs in a single session. I can't smoke that many bongs lol, sinking 4 or 5 bong would hit me pretty hard anymore and it would just knock me out. Even like the Aussie girls were hardcore bong heads and smoked more bongs then I did.
The Aussie drug culture was really chilled and very relaxing because they didn't go or do much it and hardly ever do anything to be paranoid about. It was mainly raging up at someones house, buy a carton, going to the local pubs or going to some random house party because they knew someone at that party. During the younger days when we weren't 18 yet and had very little money, the Aussie guys would always buy a goon sack and packet of White Ox rollies and fuck me I hated the goon sack and the White Ox it was fucking horrible wine and shitty tasting White OX but it was cheap and it pretty much got everyone shitfaced from the goon sack and everyone had cigarettes to smoke.
Nowadays where I live a lot of the Aussie kids growing up are starting to into ice, its like the latest drug craze. They all chip in like for like a point and then they would go off and smoke it between 4 or 5 guys in a light globe.
The Asians have such a different culture compared to the Aussies. They smoked weed as well but very little compared the Aussie guys, the Asians particularly the Viets go harder on the drugs and at a younger age too. When my Aussie mates were just starting to get into weed, my Viet mates at around the same time were getting into heroin and whacking up. This was like mainly due to hanging around the older Asian guys and being influenced by them. Pretty much most of the Viets I know that is in the drug scene whack up heroin.
I got into the heroin scene at the same time too but I didn't like it, I hated the noddyness and that heavy down feeling of heroin it just made me sick most of the time so I didn't get hooked on it as much as the Viet boys. The Viet drug culture is like the most hardcore and riskiest I've experienced. They loved to whack up and their philosophy is "anything that is water soluble is whackable" , the needle was pretty much the only tool to take drugs because the effects would hit you the hardest with smaller amounts of gear, the Viet boys were really efficient and knew how to make most of the gear that they had. It was also sometimes scary and I would get abit paranoid on rare occasions being with the Viet boys, these guys were reckless in alot of ways, they would usually pull up in like a side street after scoring the gear and like whack up right there and then in the car just a street from the dealer house and sometimes certain areas would be red hot with petrol cars cruising around too. Depending on the location of where the dealers are we would whack up in all sorts of places and most of the time in the car at shopping mall and pub car parks and alot of the time in our school and uni car park just before going into classes and lectures.
The Viet guys are some of the craftiest and cunning fellas I knew, always coming up with money making schemes to score drugs, most of the time it involved stealing or shoplifting lol. The Viet guys were probably the pro-est guys I know at stealing. They would walk in to shopping centres, equipped with the necessary tools and they could steal just about anything they wanted. They knew how to take of those beepers on expensive clothes in places like Myers and David Jones, they even knew how to take off those colour dyes that burst if you tamper with it and they got away with it like 95% of the time. I even remember one time, one of them was even casually walking out of like Dick Smiths carrying brand new 40ich LCD T.V's still in its box straight out the door.
When it came to police business the Viet guys were unbreakable, if one of them got busted for anything that guy would keep his mouth shut all the way and not dog out the others out, even when it is evidently clear that other people were involved in what ever it was, the guy that got busted wouldn't even say a single word let alone naming any names.
My Chinese friends were mainly into the ecstasy and special k if it was available. They didn't smoke weed everyday like the Aussie and never crossed the line with the needles like the Viets but they went hard on the ecstasy and special k on the weekends. They would smoke weed too but like only just to try it and see how its like, none of them knew how to smoke a bong properly and always never sinking a whole cone usually losing breath and coughing their lungs out which was fucking hilarious to watch. I didn't hang out with the Chinese guys as much as the Aussies and Viets, they aren't hard into the drug scene but they were willing to like try everything at least once.
Every time when I was with them I never had to pay for any drugs which was awesome because I usually got them hookups, so they always shouted me everything. The only times when I was with the Chinese guys was on the weekends at the clubs and bars, on normal days I only see them at school and uni but they would do their own Chinese thing with themselves but come Friday night or sometimes Thursday night they always called me up to come out. I probably had the most fun with the Chinese crew even though I didn't see them much, mainly because of the free pills and like they always had hot Chinese girls in with them which was awesome because 99.99% of the time it was pretty much guaranteed that I would get it in with a Chinese girl that night. When them Chinese girls are peaking on pills they become totally different creatures and with the mix of alcohol, they pretty much beg you to get it in with them.
Overall different races and cultures have their own drug culture, for me it was a fun and valuable experience being part of 3 very different drug cultures growing up. Each drug culture had their good and bad and experiences and unique aspects, and along the way I learned many new things about drugs from each of these cultures. I hope to experience and be apart of more drug cultures in my lifetime because I find it very fascinating and extremely fun learning about new things about drugs.
^ well that is interesting because I worked in Kuwait for 5 years and a large proportion of the booze hitting town came across the border from Iraq as well as the UAE/Bahrain through the Saudi (yep, Saudi) border. Without knowing for sure I think the Iraqi consignments came down through the Kurdish provinces up north from Turkey where the border is long and porous.
Contraband is such a problem the Q80 authorities run heavy vehicles through giant X-ray machines at the 3 main border crossings and have regular massive booze (30000+ bottles) and hash busts. Mates working as PSC's in Iraq have no problem sourcing while they're there. They might be dry countries but there is a helluva black market in booze with locals and expats happy to pay 5x the price we pay on the outside.
The popular (cheaper) alternatives are to make your own wine from cartons of grape juice
or hook into pharmaceutical-grade ethyl alcohol imported legally for lab work. Otherwise there are plenty of Asians distilling a usually noxious product called sadiki. Not a day goes by without booze-busts going down as the crime section of the Arab Times will attest, and it's very often older citizens who you might argue should know better. One thing is for sure though - despite the severe penalties leveled against 'drunkards', alcohol use/abuse is popular through all the social classes and getting hold of it is no big deal.
Contraband is such a problem the Q80 authorities run heavy vehicles through giant X-ray machines at the 3 main border crossings and have regular massive booze (30000+ bottles) and hash busts. Mates working as PSC's in Iraq have no problem sourcing while they're there. They might be dry countries but there is a helluva black market in booze with locals and expats happy to pay 5x the price we pay on the outside.
The popular (cheaper) alternatives are to make your own wine from cartons of grape juice
or hook into pharmaceutical-grade ethyl alcohol imported legally for lab work. Otherwise there are plenty of Asians distilling a usually noxious product called sadiki. Not a day goes by without booze-busts going down as the crime section of the Arab Times will attest, and it's very often older citizens who you might argue should know better. One thing is for sure though - despite the severe penalties leveled against 'drunkards', alcohol use/abuse is popular through all the social classes and getting hold of it is no big deal.
pisspotnrock
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Jul 16, 2010
- Messages
- 1,529
I've experienced a few different drug cultures here in Australia because this country is so multicultural and different races will have different drug cultures.
My white Aussie friends mainly drink and smoked weed, now and then they would smoke abit of ice but only like special occasions and going out to town or clubbing they would eat lollies. Most of my Aussie mates smokes weed everyday and its like part of their life, they wake and bake and pretty much do everything stoned. When it wears off they just rage up more bongs to maintain stoned so they would be stoned 24/7 and they always smoke 15-20 bongs in a single session. I can't smoke that many bongs lol, sinking 4 or 5 bong would hit me pretty hard anymore and it would just knock me out. Even like the Aussie girls were hardcore bong heads and smoked more bongs then I did.
The Aussie drug culture was really chilled and very relaxing because they didn't go or do much it and hardly ever do anything to be paranoid about. It was mainly raging up at someones house, buy a carton, going to the local pubs or going to some random house party because they knew someone at that party. During the younger days when we weren't 18 yet and had very little money, the Aussie guys would always buy a goon sack and packet of White Ox rollies and fuck me I hated the goon sack and the White Ox it was fucking horrible wine and shitty tasting White OX but it was cheap and it pretty much got everyone shitfaced from the goon sack and everyone had cigarettes to smoke.
Nowadays where I live a lot of the Aussie kids growing up are starting to into ice, its like the latest drug craze. They all chip in like for like a point and then they would go off and smoke it between 4 or 5 guys in a light globe.
The Asians have such a different culture compared to the Aussies. They smoked weed as well but very little compared the Aussie guys, the Asians particularly the Viets go harder on the drugs and at a younger age too. When my Aussie mates were just starting to get into weed, my Viet mates at around the same time were getting into heroin and whacking up. This was like mainly due to hanging around the older Asian guys and being influenced by them. Pretty much most of the Viets I know that is in the drug scene whack up heroin.
I got into the heroin scene at the same time too but I didn't like it, I hated the noddyness and that heavy down feeling of heroin it just made me sick most of the time so I didn't get hooked on it as much as the Viet boys. The Viet drug culture is like the most hardcore and riskiest I've experienced. They loved to whack up and their philosophy is "anything that is water soluble is whackable" , the needle was pretty much the only tool to take drugs because the effects would hit you the hardest with smaller amounts of gear, the Viet boys were really efficient and knew how to make most of the gear that they had. It was also sometimes scary and I would get abit paranoid on rare occasions being with the Viet boys, these guys were reckless in alot of ways, they would usually pull up in like a side street after scoring the gear and like whack up right there and then in the car just a street from the dealer house and sometimes certain areas would be red hot with petrol cars cruising around too. Depending on the location of where the dealers are we would whack up in all sorts of places and most of the time in the car at shopping mall and pub car parks and alot of the time in our school and uni car park just before going into classes and lectures.
The Viet guys are some of the craftiest and cunning fellas I knew, always coming up with money making schemes to score drugs, most of the time it involved stealing or shoplifting lol. The Viet guys were probably the pro-est guys I know at stealing. They would walk in to shopping centres, equipped with the necessary tools and they could steal just about anything they wanted. They knew how to take of those beepers on expensive clothes in places like Myers and David Jones, they even knew how to take off those colour dyes that burst if you tamper with it and they got away with it like 95% of the time. I even remember one time, one of them was even casually walking out of like Dick Smiths carrying brand new 40ich LCD T.V's still in its box straight out the door.
When it came to police business the Viet guys were unbreakable, if one of them got busted for anything that guy would keep his mouth shut all the way and not dog out the others out, even when it is evidently clear that other people were involved in what ever it was, the guy that got busted wouldn't even say a single word let alone naming any names.
My Chinese friends were mainly into the ecstasy and special k if it was available. They didn't smoke weed everyday like the Aussie and never crossed the line with the needles like the Viets but they went hard on the ecstasy and special k on the weekends. They would smoke weed too but like only just to try it and see how its like, none of them knew how to smoke a bong properly and always never sinking a whole cone usually losing breath and coughing their lungs out which was fucking hilarious to watch. I didn't hang out with the Chinese guys as much as the Aussies and Viets, they aren't hard into the drug scene but they were willing to like try everything at least once.
Every time when I was with them I never had to pay for any drugs which was awesome because I usually got them hookups, so they always shouted me everything. The only times when I was with the Chinese guys was on the weekends at the clubs and bars, on normal days I only see them at school and uni but they would do their own Chinese thing with themselves but come Friday night or sometimes Thursday night they always called me up to come out. I probably had the most fun with the Chinese crew even though I didn't see them much, mainly because of the free pills and like they always had hot Chinese girls in with them which was awesome because 99.99% of the time it was pretty much guaranteed that I would get it in with a Chinese girl that night. When them Chinese girls are peaking on pills they become totally different creatures and with the mix of alcohol, they pretty much beg you to get it in with them.
Overall different races and cultures have their own drug culture, for me it was a fun and valuable experience being part of 3 very different drug cultures growing up. Each drug culture had their good and bad and experiences and unique aspects, and along the way I learned many new things about drugs from each of these cultures. I hope to experience and be apart of more drug cultures in my lifetime because I find it very fascinating and extremely fun learning about new things about drugs.
very interesting post.. thanks for sharing it with us
SpiritFolk
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Sep 9, 2010
- Messages
- 543
^^ Yeh good post Lychee, I liked your paragraph about the 'Viet Boys' you knew. You basically described the ones I knew growing up in regards to how they use and deal, and can be damn crafty but risky at the same time.
I am an aussie guy though and smoke bongs daily but like 1-4 max daily, so we don't all smoke 20 bongs a day haha
I am an aussie guy though and smoke bongs daily but like 1-4 max daily, so we don't all smoke 20 bongs a day haha
Yeah that was a really cool insight.
Personally I've only been around a couple of different drug cultures within Australia.
My circle of friends when I was 18 were somewhat into the drugs - druggies by straight standards, but pretty soft compared to others. They mainly smoked weed and drank, but they did the occasional trip or pill and pulled a lot of nangs. Also some of them were into the dexies but not more than a couple of times a week. I was more into experimenting with different drugs so I hung out with some characters and did some harder stuff like ice and oxycontin.
The harder drug scene guys that I knew had zero connection with any of my other friends. They were all big into the ice (or "bling" as they called it) and despite being white middle class they dressed like junkies (I spose because a lot of them were) and used a lot of "gangsta" words, along with extreme overuse of "oath" and "bro/brother". None of them had jobs, so they basically sat around various garages smoking shards and pulling cones.
It was pretty interesting making a study of them. They were all really skinny and one in particular had really junky eyes and shitty teeth - he was one of the main dealers of the group, but I'm not really sure how it all fit together as I didn't spend long enough with them to find out. I knew these people through an ex of my ex who became my dealer. Anyway it was pretty much a constant party with these people, and they could get ANY drug you wanted.
I also spent some time with some Indonesians in Melbourne who smoked a lot of weed and did pills, but I didn't notice a single difference between the way they do things and what we're used to. I guess I didn't spend long enough with them to really know though.
Americans that I've seshed with have 2 main differences in their weed culture - their bongs have "slides" as opposed to shotties and they exclusively smoke their weed green.
Personally I've only been around a couple of different drug cultures within Australia.
My circle of friends when I was 18 were somewhat into the drugs - druggies by straight standards, but pretty soft compared to others. They mainly smoked weed and drank, but they did the occasional trip or pill and pulled a lot of nangs. Also some of them were into the dexies but not more than a couple of times a week. I was more into experimenting with different drugs so I hung out with some characters and did some harder stuff like ice and oxycontin.
The harder drug scene guys that I knew had zero connection with any of my other friends. They were all big into the ice (or "bling" as they called it) and despite being white middle class they dressed like junkies (I spose because a lot of them were) and used a lot of "gangsta" words, along with extreme overuse of "oath" and "bro/brother". None of them had jobs, so they basically sat around various garages smoking shards and pulling cones.
It was pretty interesting making a study of them. They were all really skinny and one in particular had really junky eyes and shitty teeth - he was one of the main dealers of the group, but I'm not really sure how it all fit together as I didn't spend long enough with them to find out. I knew these people through an ex of my ex who became my dealer. Anyway it was pretty much a constant party with these people, and they could get ANY drug you wanted.
I also spent some time with some Indonesians in Melbourne who smoked a lot of weed and did pills, but I didn't notice a single difference between the way they do things and what we're used to. I guess I didn't spend long enough with them to really know though.
Americans that I've seshed with have 2 main differences in their weed culture - their bongs have "slides" as opposed to shotties and they exclusively smoke their weed green.
Busty St Clare
Ex-Bluelighter
- Joined
- Sep 28, 2007
- Messages
- 12,667
Growing up in NZ my first experience with smoking weed was "hot knifing" on a gas stove top. I don't think I have ever seen anyone in Australia do this.
justsayknow
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Sep 28, 2004
- Messages
- 1,270
I think that is a pretty specific Kiwi thing. The only Aussies I know that do it learned it from their Kiwi mates or just do it when the Kiwis are doing it. I don't know if they practice that any where else?
pisspotnrock
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Jul 16, 2010
- Messages
- 1,529
hot-knifing hash over here is pretty common
Busty St Clare
Ex-Bluelighter
- Joined
- Sep 28, 2007
- Messages
- 12,667
The first time it was hash but I have done bud also