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Could Trazodone end a bad trip? (on a 5-HT2a agonist like 2c-x or psilocin)

J

JackiesBabyy

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Since Naloxone is an opiate antagonist and it can reverse an overdose on an opiate agonist, do you think Trazodone, a strong 5-HT2a antagonist, could end a bad trip on a 5-HT2a agonist?
 
The easy way to test this is to take a psychedelic and then take trazodone. The answer, as with all things experimental science, is: maybe, with qualifying conditions.
 
nuke said:
The easy way to test this is to take a psychedelic and then take trazodone. The answer, as with all things experimental science, is: maybe, with qualifying conditions.
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Well, is it a general rule that antagonists knock agonists off of receptors like naloxone and opioids? Or is that just SOMETIMES the case?
 
Depends on the relative affinity for the receptors. (Ki/Kd)

It just so happens that when you compare naloxone to almost every other opioid, naloxone will prefer to bind at mu-OR and displace the "other" drugs. Pharmacologists call this having a high affinity for the receptor, and binding competitively. (There exist such thngs as super potent opioids that have affinity that exceeds naloxone - if you OD on those you are pretty hopelessly fucked)

There are also such things as noncompetitive antagonists that will not knock other drugs off the receptor, but will produce an antagonist effect on their own.

There are competitive antagonists for 5-HT2a, like e.g. risperidone, but not all of them have affinities that exceed the affinity of psychedelic drugs. And of course most psychedelics don't produce their effects solely at 2A - they act at many otther 5-HT receptors too.

Nuke is right - answer is 'maybe' depending on genetics, dose, and what psychedelic you're trying to counteract. The gold standard for killing trips are things like chlorpromazine and risperidone; hardcore antipsychotics.
 
I can vouch for trazodone's effectiveness in ending a trip with most psychedelics. I personally know several people who have successfully used it to end a bad trip. It brings you down pretty quickly, in a matter of 15-30 minutes. My group of friends has used it for LSD, 2C-E, and tryptamines. One of my friends would pop it at the end of concerts to come down and drive home from the venue.

The usual dose they would use would be 50mg, although they said that a strong trip could require 100mg.
 
Dr. Drugs said:
The usual dose they would use would be 50mg, although they said that a strong trip could require 100mg.
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Never really thought of this... obviously its pretty risky due to the sedating properties of Trazadone that some feel (trazadone never really helped me sleep)... plus if it doesn't happen to work for whatever reason and you are supposed to drive you are pretty much screwed.
 
I second Dr. Drugs

I ended a particularly horrible trip that way. Don't know about fifteen minutes though (closer to thirty or maybe forty five, but by the time an hour passes you're usually fine)

Ending a bad trip has its own consequences though
 
While sedatives are, in general, often somehow linked to breathing depression or hypotension, trazodone appears pretty safe. I would avoid it if you have a heart condition even though the evidence linking it to arrhythmia is not well-established and may indeed be illusory.

It is, however, far safer than other hypnotics, and if I were to go to the shrink for insomnia, the only thing I'd prefer to traz is herb.
 
Xanax is a benzodiazepine or minor tranquilizer. Anti-psychotics, or major tranquilizers, such as olanzapine and risperidone, would be more effective in ending a bad trip. I have no personal experience with benzos and ending bad trips but I understand they accomplish the task to a lesser extent. Basically a benzodiazepine indirectly increases levels of GABA which itself stops some nuerotransmitters (including one which might cause a bad trip) while anti-psychotics directly stop essentially just the undesired nuerotransmitters. Some people can still trip on a low dose of both medicines, but more likely on a low dose of Xanax. Xanax works pretty fast (in about ten minutes). Xanax has a short half-life though so I don't think it would be an ideal benzodiazepine to stop long-acting psychedelics such as LSD.

On another note I've heard its actually risky to use risperidone in stopping a trip due to it increasing levels of serotonin in at least one brain region low-dose.

Also trazodone is a weak SSRI in addition to its anti-psychotic effects so it may cause complications such as Serotonin Syndrome.

I think it could do the job well, though, without antagonizing other receptors that you don't need which atypical anti-psychotics do.
 
^Xanax doesn't increase GABA, it allosterically modulates GABA receptors to be more sensitive to the GABA that's already there. Its a subtle but important difference.

According to Goodman & Gilman 12th edition, the preferable treatment for adverse reactions to psychedelics is diazepam 20mg.
 
it does indirectly

GABA being synonymous for binding of GABA to receptor

benzos open ion channels more frequently to allow for increased rate of binding
 
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I would also like to know about this. I'm wondering if it could counteract an accidental flood of serotonin (which could lead to serotonin syndrome). While trazodones main activity is as a 5-HT antagonist, it is also an SSRI.
 
Serotonin doesn't "flood accidentally" and even if it did, it wouldn't cause SS. It's almost impossible to get SS without some sort of MAOI involved, or HEAVY dosing of re-uptake inhibiting agents.
 
sekio said:
Nuke is right - answer is 'maybe' depending on genetics, dose, and what psychedelic you're trying to counteract. The gold standard for killing trips are things like chlorpromazine and risperidone; hardcore antipsychotics.
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I thought Cyproheptadine was kinda considered a gold standard too? Or, does that just coincide with the same ruling on Trazodone.
 
Man, fuck using old school antipsychotics for ending bad trips.. You're much better off to use something like olanzapine or quetiapine, the risk of getting EPS on an old school antipsychotic is just too big in a non-clinical setting. Unless you have some anticholinergics around, then it's probably safe (dipenhydramine in a high dose seems like a good OTC option).

Anyway, mirtazapine apparently works for this too, also a good drug to get to sleep.
 
I find trazodone to be unpleasant, and it doesn't calm me down or help me sleep....I think quietapine would be the way to go for a bad trip....As far as just ending a trip I don't really know........
 
If you're looking to end a trip it's probably a better option to go with antipsychotics rather then antidepressants.

Wizzle said:
Man, fuck using old school antipsychotics for ending bad trips.. You're much better off to use something like olanzapine or quetiapine, the risk of getting EPS on an old school antipsychotic is just too big in a non-clinical setting. Unless you have some anticholinergics around, then it's probably safe (dipenhydramine in a high dose seems like a good OTC option).
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I would just like to add that because quetiapine is so heavily sedating it's a powerful anxiolytic - so even if it doesn't end a trip it will probably make it much easier to bear, if you don't just fall asleep or space out that is. If you are going to try and end a trip quetiapine is probably the way to go after .

On another note I wouldn't touch the third generation antipsychotic aripiprazole while on a trip either. I could be wrong but as it works completely different the first or second generation antipsychotics n terms of it's agonism and antagonism profile it could make things worse. Plus you don't get the benefit of sedation.
 
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