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Coping with the ugly stick

O.K..... You sound pretty fucked up, man. I hope you read this and believe me when I tell you that a very happy life is possible for you. You can, actually, leave the house, then? You referred to your looks as being like 'quasimodo'? I went through a period of extreme self-disgust and I can understand the sense of isolation you feel at the moment - I literally didn't look in the mirror for five years.

It is a little known fact, in our lives, that life can be as easy or as hard as we make it. Wherever you are, whoever you are, there is always a destination that we strive for. People all over the world, right now, are wishing for all kinds of things. But why should we get what we want?

Some of the most inspired moments of my life, ones which have lifted me 'til I felt supersonic, I have met with while in the depths of despair.

It is up to you to establish a relationship between you and the world. DON'T listen to the media and all thier bullshit. All this, "you have to be beautiful to be worthy..." crap is part of a perpetual cycle the media is stuck with and so are we, unless we step outside the bullshit.

Take a look around you, man. The world is beautiful. You just have to know where to look.


p.s. go easy on yourself.
 
I agree with what lots of people here have said - confidence can go a very long way in making someone more attractive. I mean I know some girls who objectively really aren't that pretty at all but since they give the impression of thinking they're the most beautiful women on the planet, people are naturally drawn to them.
This is going to sound stereotypical but looks really aren't the only thing that matters. I'm not going to lie, yes, they help - but it's not because someone isn't a physical ideal that they can't be loved or something. It sounds like some people have been pretty awful to you but trust me, not everyone is that vain. I'm also sure you're being too hard on yourself and are seeing things that others don't.
Physical exercise/ working out/ improving your body would very probably help you gain some self-confidence, and if you're not happy with how your face looks or whatever there's really lots of things that can be done to help. I remember this guy in my class a few years ago who didn't look very good at all, but I'm sure he could have been much better if he plucked his eyebrows, dropped the huge glasses, got a haircut, etc. (Obviously I dunno if you need any of those, and as I said, I'm sure you're being too hard on yourself, but there's an example). I absolutely don't believe anyone's 'ugly' to the point of not being able to do anything about it.
 
I don't even know what this confidence shit people talk about is. I think it is just the most popular work people currently apply to that "jeau no se qua" (spelling of that is most certainly fucked up, but hopefully it can still be understood phonetically) element that some people possess, that makes them more attractive. Seems like a little too abstract of a concept to apply to a world as nuanced as the one involved in dating.


Basic grooming, care for your body (exercise, eating relatively healthy, etc..), and working on your mood are the most important places to start. Nobody is going to get a girl if they are depressed. Nobody is going to come out of a depression if they are alone, so start by making some friends. A more positive and pleasant to be around mood may be what this "confidence" noise is all about, so start by working on being happy, and exercise and social interaction go a long way in that regard.

Anyways, you should know that the people I have met in my life who have had the most luck with women, have not only not been particularly attractive - they have been especially unattractive (physically, at least). I doubt you are as unattractive as you believe, but it really doesn't matter anyways. I will never understand exactly what it is that makes a girl attracted to a guy, but I know that they are not necessarily looking for the same qualities men are looking for in women. Or they prioritize certain qualities differently from the way men do. I suspect there is also more variability among women as far as which specific qualities they look for first, versus men who might more uniformly prefer certain qualities be present before determining they are interested enough to look out for others. I also suspect women have no idea what exactly they are attracted to for the most part.

That said, there is no sure-fire way to attract women, but if you take good care of your body and mind you optimize your chances of finding a woman who is attracted to you.


Holy shit, is this from 2011? So everything I'm posting may not even be relevant to the situation anymore? Fuck it, I typed all this shit out, I'll let it stand.
 
Cosmetics will get you everywhere. I can not relate, I'm sorry, but I put myself through college as a makeup artist for Nars(and strippers on the side, may as well be honest on BL LOL)....put some research into that.
 
3,4-dihydroxyphen, it's 'je ne sais quoi' ;)
I do stand by my point that confidence goes a long way though. When it comes to physical attractiveness alone, I'll always go for the confident guy.
 
Pagey said:
3,4-dihydroxyphen, it's 'je ne sais quoi' ;)
I do stand by my point that confidence goes a long way though. When it comes to physical attractiveness alone, I'll always go for the confident guy.
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Thanks. I always forget my French, perhaps because I never learned it.


But what is confidence?

I think when giving advice to lonely people, it is helpful to be specific (based on me, myself, having been/being a lonely person, and having a relative idea of what is and isn't effective based on experience with actual mind-numbing loneliness). Generalizations such as "you need confidence in order to make friends/meet women" tell me that I am either lacking in confidence, and this is the reason for my failures in this realm, or, if I feel I am confident to a degree, that I am simply not confident enough, and therefore, I am simply failing at relationships based on some abstract trait I do not fully comprehend and/or possess enough of. Obviously, others understand it, because they seem to have success where I am failing, but why were some born with it while I was not? What is wrong with me?

Another phrase I hate is "just be yourself." This presupposes that one who is failing at social interactions is not "being themselves" in social interactions. But what if they are? What if they are simply "being themselves" and not trying to "fake anything" as it would be put, and this "self" they are "being" is what keeps getting rejected, time after time after time. It should also be noted that much of this can apply to the term "confidence" as well.

It's my contention (and experience) that advice such as this harms much more than it helps, because you get people who are already having social issues to believe that their failings are due to traits, which it should be noted are likely variable/relative terms to all people who use them, that they themselves do not fully understand. Additionally, traits such as this so-called "confidence" come across as something one was either born with or developed during their childhood, and would therefore be just as ingrained in one's personality/self as one's looks.

A better word would perhaps be "charisma," where people have some understanding that charisma is variable based on a variety of genetics and life experiences, and not necessarily within one's power to change. It's good that you like charisma in a guy and all, but would you really tell a struggling guy friend of yours to simply "have more charisma?" It seems that in the case of charisma, the obvious answer would be "no," and one would simply understand that this advice is about as useful as telling your friend he needs to have better looks.
 
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Trust me, I know quite well what loneliness is and when I say confidence is a plus I mean that you have to act as if you know you're a person worth knowing, or as if you know you're hot, or fun, or whatever. It's really just literal.
I don't think saying that sort of thing is harmful and I don't really see where that's coming from? For instance confidence is not at all part of someone's personality I think, in fact in the vast majority of cases it's just an appearance people put on. Social situations involve a lot of acting and I don't think it puts any additional pressure on anyone to say that because we all have to deal with it. It's not as if we can't develop or work on certain traits through time. You may not be a naturally confident person but of course you can work on it.

And no, I wasn't talking about charisma, which is entirely separate from confidence. People have told me I'd have more luck if I exhuded more confidence so I'm working on it. It's much simpler than you're making it out to be, it's just a matter of how you hold yourself, of speaking up more, whatever...it's not because it doesn't come naturally at first that it won't through practice.
It's not comparable to telling someone they need to have better looks since that's something that they don't have much control over. They can, however, control how they act or appear to others.
 
Pagey said:
Trust me, I know quite well what loneliness is and when I say confidence is a plus I mean that you have to act as if you know you're a person worth knowing, or as if you know you're hot, or fun, or whatever. It's really just literal.
I don't think saying that sort of thing is harmful and I don't really see where that's coming from? For instance confidence is not at all part of someone's personality I think, in fact in the vast majority of cases it's just an appearance people put on. Social situations involve a lot of acting and I don't think it puts any additional pressure on anyone to say that because we all have to deal with it. It's not as if we can't develop or work on certain traits through time. You may not be a naturally confident person but of course you can work on it.

And no, I wasn't talking about charisma, which is entirely separate from confidence. People have told me I'd have more luck if I exhuded more confidence so I'm working on it. It's much simpler than you're making it out to be, it's just a matter of how you hold yourself, of speaking up more, whatever...it's not because it doesn't come naturally at first that it won't through practice.
It's not comparable to telling someone they need to have better looks since that's something that they don't have much control over. They can, however, control how they act or appear to others.
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Those terms are still pretty abstract as far as actually making an attempt to project them into the world are concerned. How does one "act as if they are somebody worth knowing?" How does one act like they know they are attractive or fun if they feel like they are neither? How would you suggest someone go about developing these traits if they do not already possess them? More importantly, if someone possesses these traits, is it apparent, or would it take a certain degree of charisma to let those around you know that you posses these degrees of self-assurance? Is it possible that there are people who possess "confidence," who are relatively assured of themselves, their abilities, and that people would like them if they got to know them, who simply lack the necessary level of charisma in order to make their "confidence" known or apparent to potential suitors?

I would argue that traits such as confidence (defined as one's sense of general self-worth or assuredness, overlapping with self-esteem at one point or another) are very much based (and limited) by a combination of genetics and upbringing, and one's sense of self-confidence is more or less static once they enter adulthood, with wild shifts occurring based on other mental states such as joy or depression. While one is happy, they will feel better about themselves and not get caught up in negative thought processes as much and therefore form more positive impressions on others. While one is depressed, he/she will not feel good about themselves, will get caught up in negative though processes, and will therefore be prone to self-doubt and awkwardness and all sorts of other nasty shit that will form more negative impressions upon others.

The point is, telling people to just be more confident, in and of itself, is backwards. It's like placing some kid with dreams of becoming an engineer into calculus before he has even taken basic algebra - he still needs to take not only basic algebra, but geometry, and trigonometry, and pre-calculus algebra. You cannot reasonably expect him to learn calculus when he doesn't have the prerequisites that come before it, and placing him in a situation so overwhelming will likely discourage the kid from becoming an engineer.

It is more important to teach somebody how to be happy, because if someone is suffering from a depression or is having social anxiety to the point where they are having difficulty in basic human social interactions, to the point where they find themselves all alone and don't even know how to get out of the situation they find themselves in, then there is something much deeper going on, where it is much more vital to attack the root cause of those beliefs, than it is to simply say "pretend it isn't there and just act confident." When confidence doesn't come, the individual suffering from severe depression or anxiety will simply become more depressed or anxious based on their inability to properly exude this trait and their inability to understand exactly what it is (what, for example, is the line between confidence and arrogance?).

The advice you offered at the end of your post was much better, much more specific, and would be more helpful. One should learn good posture in order to have success in social situations, definitely. Not as abstract as "confidence." Even so, the most important thing to work on is treating the underlying issues, and the best ways to do that are to exercise and make friends (building a support network, they would call it in a psychologists office). If any one of these two are too difficult on their own, or even impossible, one should seek professional help, because they do not have a confidence problem, they have a treatable psychological condition such as depression or anxiety.
 
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Those terms are still pretty abstract as far as actually making an attempt to project them into the world are concerned. How does one "act as if they are somebody worth knowing?" How does one act like they know they are attractive or fun if they feel like they are neither? How would you suggest someone go about developing these traits if they do not already possess them? More importantly, if someone possesses these traits, is it apparent, or would it take a certain degree of charisma to let those around you know that you posses these degrees of self-assurance? Is it possible that there are people who possess "confidence," who are relatively assured of themselves, their abilities, and that people would like them if they got to know them, who simply lack the necessary level of charisma in order to make their "confidence" known or apparent to potential suitors?

I would argue that traits such as confidence (defined as one's sense of general self-worth or assuredness, overlapping with self-esteem at one point or another) are very much based (and limited) by a combination of genetics and upbringing, and one's sense of self-confidence is more or less static once they enter adulthood, with wild shifts occurring based on other mental states such as joy or depression. While one is happy, they will feel better about themselves and not get caught up in negative thought processes as much and therefore form more positive impressions on others. While one is depressed, he/she will not feel good about themselves, will get caught up in negative though processes, and will therefore be prone to self-doubt and awkwardness and all sorts of other nasty shit that will form more negative impressions upon others.

The point is, telling people to just be more confident, in and of itself, is backwards. It's like placing some kid with dreams of becoming an engineer into calculus before he has even taken basic algebra - he still needs to take not only basic algebra, but geometry, and trigonometry, and pre-calculus algebra. You cannot reasonably expect him to learn calculus when he doesn't have the prerequisites that come before it, and placing him in a situation so overwhelming will likely discourage the kid from becoming an engineer.

It is more important to teach somebody how to be happy, because if someone is suffering from a depression or is having social anxiety to the point where they are having difficulty in basic human social interactions, to the point where they find themselves all alone and don't even know how to get out of the situation they find themselves in, then there is something much deeper going on, where it is much more vital to attack the root cause of those beliefs, than it is to simply say "pretend it isn't there and just act confident." When confidence doesn't come, the individual suffering from severe depression or anxiety will simply become more depressed or anxious based on their inability to properly exude this trait and their inability to understand exactly what it is (what, for example, is the line between confidence and arrogance?).

The advice you offered at the end of your post was much better, much more specific, and would be more helpful. One should learn good posture in order to have success in social situations, definitely. Not as abstract as "confidence." Even so, the most important thing to work on is treating the underlying issues, and the best ways to do that are to exercise and make friends (building a support network, they would call it in a psychologists office). If any one of these two are too difficult on their own, or even impossible, one should seek professional help, because they do not have a confidence problem, they have a treatable psychological condition such as depression or anxiety.
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I don't think it would be productive to spoon-feed everything to the OP/ to whoever asks a similar question like you're suggesting. Part of growing up is learning for yourself how to fit into the world, and there's only so much help others can and will give. If I were to tell a socially anxious person exactly what they should be doing in social situations at any given seconds, how would they ever learn to fend for themself? That's why it's good to give general ideas and then have the individual extrapolate that as he will.
I didn't say he should be more confident. I said he should act more confident. Big difference.

I also absolutely never said they should hide their emotions and live through a permanent veil. It's just that, as I know perfectly well because I do it myself 24/7, being depressed and suicidal and whatnot, you just gotta learn not to show that to others, or at least not to people you don't know well, if you want to get along...whether your like that or not.
I think you're exaggerating a lot and really not giving people enough credit. And I've been severely depressed for years so I do know what I'm talking about.
 
Its a cliche but decent people will take time to knw yu as a person....not be swayed by looks good or bad. I know this because I was born conventially very attractive. I learned to live on my looks and became a successful model at 16 and married a very wealthy man a 21. I was the most obnoxious, up my own backside, horrid, vapid, condassending, patronizing, spoilt, selfish woman you could imagine. I thught I was the bees knees and I thught the world was mine for the taking. Then my father died when I was 25.He was my rock, the man who brught me up to expect the world on a silver plate and who did his best to give it to me and to make sure others did too. It was such a shock when he died that within 2 weeks I developed the worst psoriasis you have ever seen. I was 95% covered head to toe and looked like a badly burnt lizard. To someone like me whose looks were EVERYTHING my life crumbled. It was horrific and even worse all the 'friends' I had dropped me and my husband could barely touch me or look at me. For many, many years after that I was seriously depressed and lived like a hermit, terrified to be around people and completely unable to form friendships or relationships. It was a massive wake up call and I SO deserved it. I have learned to live with my disfigurement and accept that I cant change it so may as well get over it. The friends I have nw have seen me in horrific states of ugliness and have never once been ashamed to be seen with me or be my friend. TRULY looks are nt everything and can in fact make you an underdeveloped, narcissist. After many years of mooning and abusing drugs (as if THAT was a good idea when yr so depressed!) I decided I would probably end up single cus noone could possibly find me attractive again. I built up my life with no inclinations t ever search for love again. I met a guy in the gym when my psoriasis was in full bloom and I wasnt even paying attention. He didnt bat an eyelid and asked me for coffee. It was the start. . THEN as if the psoriasis wasnt a big enugh wake up call I had a baby 3 years ago who is the most beautiful child I have EVER seen. She also has Down Syndrome. Years ago I would nt have coped with that. Today I have the skills to swat off shallow people like flies and will give her the strength to not give a fuck either. People can be cruel but trust me....Karma is a bitch. Once I accepted that I couldnt do fuck all to change my looks I gained confidence in my abilities to excel in other areas of my life and the biggest asset anyne can have is confidence. Just like a yawn is contagious so is confidence. People who gravitate to me now do so because of what I have to say and share and not because they want an arm piece. Im happier nw than ever and my life is full. BeforeI was an empty shell with nothing of worth.
 
^ Fantastic story. Thanks for sharing. You are an inspiration to anyone who feels ugly, hopeless, or worthless. :)
 
it also makes sense on the flipside

i'm very attractive but with very low self confidence and depression

and i'm almost 20 and have never had a girlfriend and the past 7 years of my life have been dominated by loneliness/escaping reality
 
I read the pages of this thread, and am struck by many things. I think those who perceive themselves to be ugly are doing a massive disservice to themselves. I will add to Amber's great post, that those who are very attractive can be just as lonely as those who are perhaps physically unattractive, as both can be adjudged and hated on looks alone. But there is more to life than looks, yes there is, never give up. These problems too shall pass.
 
wow, thanks so much for your kind comments. Id like to think I dont come across as a smart ass. To get to this point of acceptance took many years and many mistakes of epic proportions - I seriosuly rolled in a lot of shit. Its a sad world we live in when the media constantly bombard us with images of impossibly perfect people and our kids are growing up desperate to aspire to these images because they think that its normal. Photo shop has a lot to answer for. And as someone also pointed out, for those who are naturally beautiful the hatred and jealousy that can ignite is also quite staggering. Humans are brutal to eachother arent they? I will never, ever, ever forget those dark years of self loathing when i hit rock bottom. When people tell you t pull yurself together and remind you of all those who are in a worse place than you, it falls on deaf ears because nothing can compare t the hell yu are in. Self medicating with every substance yu can find pulls you down ever deeper but its whatyou do when you literally cannot bear to live in your own body. Learning to live with a disfigurement, a less than perfect face or a disability of any kind is soooo hard when other people cant see past it. ... but if you can hang in there and believe that you are worth more than all those tossers who try to make you feel inferior, there is light. Cue another vomitbag cliche " if yu cant love yourself then how do you expect others to" Someone asked me once why God (or our maker) allowed children like my daughter to be born as they could never contribute to society. Well...my daughter has given me more in3 years than I would have had in a whole lifetime of being part of Ken and Barbie. She has shown me humility, patience,trust, value, determination, bravery and a pureness that only a child who will never know what it feels to be jealous or judgmental can bring to the table. How can having a straight nose or perfect skin or a six pack possibly fill you with as much happiness and joy as watching a child who was told would never walk suddenly get up off the floor and stand on her own two feet?? I am eternally grateful that I was the lucky one chosen to be her guardian. SERIOUSLY....when im old and decrepid and smell like piss I want to be with someone who loves me from the heart and I couldnt give a shit if they looked like quazzy modo. So what im tryng to say is "fuck em" lol :)
 
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Bucklecroft Rudy said:
Well theres been loadsa times where ive seen girls (fairly hot ones too) do the lip curl thing. Then there are the looks in the street I get from folks. The other things are specific incidents actually being called ugly/freak etc Theres been times where photos have been taken and my face has been cut out lol Most of my friends seem ashamed of me too haha. Interestingly enough though my dealer actually wanted me around him because I "looked good" haha purely because he reckoned it reflected well on him. I suspect however that it was more a case that I made him look good by contrast. People seem to lack empathy for me too which is pretty scary. Like at uni folk could see my world was falling apart but they didnt give a fuck and in many cases made it worse. My social group literally froze me out completely which did alot for my confidence lol

I mean my personality is enough to get me girls. I've had girls come onto me who I would have wet dreams about lol, and I can only asssume its on the basis of my irresistibly magnetic charisma and intelligence lol. I'll admit drug use has fucked my appearance up alot. Ive got scarring around my eyes and shit from use which I dont imagine has improved my looks. Drugs do make you ugly lol.

When it comes down to it I dont actually care. I tend to wear a basecall cap and aviators in public haha so my face is pretty much concealed anyway. However sometimes bang it hits me between the eyes and I end up retreating into myself for months on end as I am now.
Ive got to go to formal events tomorrow so off come the cap and glasses. Dont know how the fuck im going to handle it all as im used to being able to hide so to speak
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as you start to get older, like a lot of people, you will begin to shift your concerns away from yours (and every one elses) looks and go squarely on how good of a person you are. anyone willing to down someone for something so small as looks deserves to be hit in the face.


you may be one of those people who just bloom late. i have seen plenty of them, even chicks/guys i havent in only a year seem to shed their shell and come into their own.



you are only 20 breh, give it time and fuck anyone who bases anything on looks alone. not everyone is like that. it took me forever to figure this out but there are even gorgeous girls out there who dont care about looks at all...
 
If Steve Buscemi can get laid...


That said, I'm pretty goddamn good looking and still pretty much alone. I've improved my situation, but not from a mating perspective.


I think the OP would simply need to look at the attitudes he is sending out into the world as his problem, which by his post, it appears to be, and not his appearance, which is most likely fine. I'm sure there is nobody curling their lip in disgust at him, or maybe they did that one time he walked around with a booger hanging down from one of his nose hairs and didn't realize it.

I still contend that what people call "confidence" is actually charisma, and only charisma. There are plenty of people who know how to come across as "confident" despite being anything but, they simply possess the social wherewithal to hide moments of awkwardness and insecurity, and the also possess the ability to express to others what they are good at and why they are interesting, even if they feel they are not good at these things. There are otherwise confident people who are not able to express why they are interesting and what their talents are, despite being entirely confident that they are in fact good at these things, and that if people were to pay attention to them, that they would indeed be interesting.

It should one again be noted that the OP's post is from 2011.
 
Great posts, 3,4-dihydroxyphen. No. 67 is especially insightful, I think, and I agree with you.

Thanks for sharing your story too, amberskye, it's fantastic to read about the place you're in now, and your daughter sounds like a real gift, who is lucky to have you as a mum.
 
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