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"Controlled Relapse".. what do you guys think?

Man, I don't know what to say. Seems your anxiety goes way way beyond normal shyness or sweaty palms. Does gradiated exposure therapy help at all, or do you thingthe speed has just locked you into a permenant heart race atthe slightest provocation? Also, if you spend a great deal of time alone or w/ your family, going out into public can be freaky. It is for me at least.
 
Thank you SO MUCH for writing that all out. It makes me smile like nothing else to see people mirror the same exact problems I have.
The traffic light thing for w/e reason never goes away, I'm not sure why but like clock work whether I'm lookin at the cars around me or not my heart starts to race. And I think why I can never stop it is the anticipation factor. When I'm about 100-200feet away from the light is when I REALLY first start getting nervous, and it always builds and builds till I come to a stop, when it peaks at its worse.
Its not a panic attack at that point, for w/e reason I've never actually had a panic attack at a traffic light, and I think its because its hard to actually see the peoples faces around me. Its really other people eyes that trigger them. The first thing I always look for in strangers around me is their eyes, and if they're even remotely focused in my direction my body becomes flooded with adrenaline. If I see they're not looking at me, I don't get that adrenaline surge. Its very specific, and although it sounds like a simple insecurity, it has a heavy biological rooting that for w/e reason allows panic attacks to manifest. It sucks to say, that peoples eyes make me feel like I'm about to die (when the panic attack happens). Thats my disorder in a nutshell. Its not rational, it doesn't make sense, but it never fails, and its never gone away. I think speed has a lot to do with it, as it almost seems like a permanent and specific form of paranoia. But who knows?


Oh man, when I read this quoted above, I thought I had surely wrote it. The key to the attacks is the people's eyes focusing on me too. While these attacks would come on out of the blue, there was one thing that was a 100% starter of one. Having to speak in class. Now I'm not talking about public speaking, I mean just being called on for my thought on an issue. As far as giving a presentation speech, hell that was definitely not going to happen. I went through 4 years of asking people daily about classes I had to take if there was any oral reports required. I would take the hardest damn profs. in the building, as long as no speeches were required. One senior class scared me the most because everyone I asked said a speech was a must, and I had to have the class to graduate. Finally I took it in summer school. I finally found a prof. not requiring a speech. But I had to do two, 20 page papers instead. And that was just within 5 weeks. Didn't matter, I would have done one a week to get out of the speech. So yeah, I managed to get through 4 years of school and never had to do a speech.

And your lucky in one respect BoJangles. I did not know about Inderal until I was a senior. The doctors I went to thought I was nuts and didn't know what to do. I thought I was nuts too. Finally, I had drove out of town to get away, one Friday. I was thinking how in the hell was I going to work or, just interview for a job, for that matter. I was about to cry and just picked a Wall Street Journal up that I had. By miracle or just luck, there was an article about professionals that were having the same problem with panic attacks in public speaking as me, and there was a weekend therapy course that was available. But it was in Washington D.C. That was a 900 mile drive. Shit, didn't matter, I would have went around the world for help. So I went. Thats the first time I had felt some peace in a whole damn lifetime. There was a doc. there. He scripted us all Inderal and Xanax. Oh man, the class cost 1000 bucks that I just didn't have. But I borrowed from family. Hell, I would have taken a loan out if I had too. So I credit the Washington trip with saving my life. Whew, its hell going down memory lane. Thanks for bringing up this thread.
Best
 
Hey Bojangles- first off, congrats on getting off the opiates. That's a fucking tough thing to do.

As to your issue- this summer had been just one panic attack after another for me. I'd be at work and they'd suddenly come on and it'd be frustrating just trying to hide that shit from my fellow co-workers. After my insurance kicked in I was finally able to see the Dr. Like you- I have high blood pressure and he wrote me for an ACE inhibitor/ diuretic. That alone helped a bit. However, what's really been helping has been Effexor. This drug effectively wipes out my panic attacks. I've had a few instances where I've almost had an attack- but effexor seems to kill it. Any chance you could try an SSNRI like effexor or cymbalta?

In any case, all the best!
 
What is a controlled relapse, never heard of it?

I haven't done opiates daily since about early may, though I still do them occasionally, when the paws start getting to me and I just want relief and rest for a couple days.
I thought I was the only one who got anxious at stop lights and think people are staring at me. I also feel like people don't really like me and that my personality sucks. I think it's the result of low self esteem and anxiety. After spending so much time just nodding out in my room, my social skills have diminished. I also get angry really easily and people annoy me easily.

If I was you I wouldn't relapse if you want to get over your paws sooner. People expect to get off opioids and feel normal right away. It does get better you just need to be patient and allow your body and brain to adjust to the new normal.
 
Well theres 2 types of anxiety. 1 is the anxiety that is natural from a immediate threat. I don't think there is anything immediately threatening you? The second is this vague form of anxiety that comes about when humans dwell in the future and imagine outcomes. That's also a vague form of fear...

I used to have this problem BIG TIME. It was so painful for me that I was thinking "if I have to live like this for the rest of my life I will end it." Yet I didn't want to end it! I just felt like aww fuck shit is sooo bad right now :(

So this is how it ends imo. Stop thinking about insane outcomes like school or what if what if what if...

Be fully present right now, where you are! In this very moment there is probably no issue except for your anxiety, and if there is a problem, deal with it, but you can't deal with problems of the future! You can only deal with problems right now.

Also I found that there was a chronic tension in my chest that I was too afraid to let go of. It was this throbbing red feeling that I now think is a stressing of energies. It was as if I had my hand clenched for a very long time and forgot that I was clenching my hand, and then my hand started to hurt, but I couldn't tell why and never stopped clenching my fist.

I think if you accept your pain and stop trying to distract yourself from it, focus on your inner body with full awareness, stop dwelling on your past and future, let life flow rather than trying to rigidly control it, and look for muscles/energy in your body that you are clenching and can release that you will feel much much better.

One thing that I found is truly amazing is that if I am very very present and mindful, my body and anxiety and depression start to lift within 5 minutes. They don't just vanish, but a peace engulfs me that is stronger than the pain. Also I can tell that those afflictions do slowly ware away when I am present. I think that is because when I am present, I am not feeding the addiction of worry/self pitty/self hate/self clinginess. When I am present and mindful, its as if I am watching myself rather than being myself and this instantly makes me feel better because the drama is no longer mine, but simply just drama. It allows me to relax at a deep deep level because as long as I am mindful, I feel safe.

To be mindful for me is like waking from a dream. In a dream one just reacts, they don't really have consciousness behind their actions. They could do something in a dream that makes no sense and gets them hurt. When you wake up, you become more careful because things seem more real. Mindfulness is like that again.

Just try it :p At first it will hurt real bad because the reason you havn't been mindful thus far is probably because your in pain and don't want to be present. See people are constantly seeking external input because the present is so painful and we are afraid to face it. Mindfulness is facing it and what ever you shine the light on, becomes the light!
 
.Lucid. said:
reading this thread is like reading.. something thats very long
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damn I feel you haha I am actually very interested in the topic and figured I'd read it............it's been like fucking half an hour and I don't even remember if I got thru the first page haha I need to go to bed 8)
 
bagochina said:
I sometimes still get that way when I stop at a traffic light. I sometimes think ppl are staring at me and that shoots my anxiety up. Totally sucks. It is disappearing though as the months pass. Same with being around people, at NA meetings or whatever I still get shaky, panicky, and sweaty. Fun combo let me tell ya. One of the reasons I go to meetings is to force myself to feel uncomfortable so I can get over it.

I really wonder what came first for me anxiety or drugs. Back in my doctor days I think I might have convinced myself I had anxiety just to receive meds. Than I started to develop all these symptoms that I told the doc I had. Its definitely a blurry line but in any regard after years of using tranquilizers to deal with feeling uncomfortable, shaky, etc. or whatever I used beer, opiates, etc. the fact is that I do have anxiety issues.

I mainly chalk that up to obviously medicating, self-medicating, abusing drugs, and now the lack of drugs. It was just such an ingrained behavior for me mainly in my head. If you saw me you would probably say what the hell are you anxious about you have nothing to worry about but I guess you could say that is just a habit [anxiety] that I developed. I really wish I would have never turned to scripts to help me because they have definitely hurt me in the long haul, whatever nothing I can do about that now.

Schools makes me anxious like a motherfucker to. Just the other day I was having a hard time finding a parking spot and I almost decided fuck this I payed $___ for a parking permit and I cant even find a spot. Now I am going to be late and it will be weird walking in late so I am just going home. I didn't though.

Like you already know your anxiety is sky high after coming off a pod/bupe/whatever habit and it is completely normal and it is something that I just have to deal with. It has gotten SOOO much better and things will get better if you give it the time. Anyways I rambled on way to long.

Have a great day tomorrow, I should probably tell myself the same thing also.

peace.
seedless
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Wow! Reading this, sort of comforted me and at the same time made me sad/mad at the world because I have exactly the same problems.
Whenever I have a bad anxiety day I hate red traffic lights because I feel
like everyone is starring at me. It goes the same for when I am at college, sitting in class; I guess my brain automatically thinks that everyone is judging me and finding flaws. Therefore, I cannot concentrate on the important school work.

My symptoms are shakiness, sweating, redness, and weird stare that I cannot control. My heart is freaking out during this and I feel like the world is about to end. However, once I am out of social situation or away from people I feel totally normal almost instantly.

I do have friends and in their company I am fine. However, I think it is the strangers that I fear subconsciously. I simply can;t control it and the adrenalin goes off the charts.
It is definitely comforting to know that I am not going totally crazy and there are other people that go through the same shit. I tried a lot of stuff but nothing seems to work, except for benzo's, which I cannot legally obtain unless I collect the strength/balls I have remaining and find a good psychiatrist that can actually prescribe them to me. Otherwise I will continue living a miserable life that will probably spiral out of control eventually!
 
i have strange type of anxiety as well...i can talk to someone easily one on one but if there is a group involved i tend to get anxious...the sweats is what i hate...

as for what has caused all this anxiety bojangles..you have always been anxious so i assume the speed use has made it worse..in my case i have always been restless way before drugs as you have said you have been as well...thats why the drugs felt amazing...or a hard workout puts my mind at ease for an hour or so.. constant exposure therapy doesnt or hasnt done much at all for me as i can expose myself to the same same situation every day but when the adrenaline kicks in, shaky hands, sweating, forget about it..u feel like youre losing your mind..

so i ask, is medication necessary for the anxiety or are we supposed to just live with it??living with it seems like a hassle, has to be another way..
 
Eh opiates will just mask the anxiety, not get rid of it. I know how to deal with anxiety now. YOu have to live in the present. You cant live in the past or the future because the pain of the past hurts, and the future causes fear hence why you are anxious. Just be involved in what you are doing this moment, practice that and you will find that there is generally nothing to fear or cause anxiety RIGHT NOW. The only thing that is probably causing you anxiety right now is what if what if what if. Thats just your mind, not the reality of where you are this moment. A controlled relapse is a oxymoron. Your not a moron :p
 
Man, I can guarantee that anxiety will not kill you- at least, it won't cause some acute physical trauma when experiencing it. The cortisol levels are damaging to the immune system, probably fuck around with cholesterol levels; but an anxiety attack will not kill you. Our bodies are designed to cope with high heart rates/hypertension/adrenal influx- not for a long period of time, but you could probably have elevated cardiac symptoms for several years before there being a problem.

I think the notion of a controlled relapse is simply a way of justifying/permission. If you relapse into an illness, its rarely controlled. I don't think of drug addiction as an illness, but the notion of control AND drug addiction are mutually exclusive.
 
What about phenibut?

When i started taking that, I started coming out of my shell and talking the funniest stuff to the prettiest girls and making the the entire room full of good energy. It really took away all my social anxiety.

Id Honestly try that, it sounds like the efects of phenibut are the opposite of the feelings your describing. and a jar of the shit costs fuck all and will last weeks or months..... cant hurt..

what about some otc codeine? 8mg dose x 2,
 
Oh look its the guy who trashes me because i cant get off opiates yet he has the same damn problem lol
 
Jake, you should delete your account. This site, especially the forum you seem to call home (TDS), is for harm reduction, giving and obtaining information, and help for those who seek it. Perhaps at one time you were engaged in the aforementioned, but now it would seem you simply are not. Did you even take care to read the OP? Or notice that the thread has shifted topics? I do believe you fit the definition of a Troll quite well.
 
(@jake) No you dumb bitter shit.

YOU DON'T TRY AT ALL. I have accomplished more than you EVER WILL because you DON'T TRY EVER. Thats your only excuse.
I got 23 days clean time in the last 30 days HOW MUCH do you have? Haha!

And that psychotic freak bitch you "feel sorry for".... from which you conveniently left out in the other thread that she also gets you drugs. You feel SORRY FOR YOURSELF because thats one less connect in your life. "I can't leave her I can't leave her", you can't leave drugs bro these threads are ridiculous.

I agree with counterintuitive, you act like a troll on here. You're talking about a girl you've seen for 2 weeks who your afraid to leave because shes loves you so much she'll commit suicide? ARE YOU FOR REAL? >>> 2 Weeks <<<
And shes going to off herself?
Don't YOU at least see how naive that sounds?

People on this forum are going through some serious shit because they are ACTUALLY getting off drugs or have a mental disorder going on. You talk about how you wanna quit.... for like 14 months straight with threads w/out giving it a decent shot ONCE.
If you wanna start a rant thread go for it I'm all game but then change the title of your sub thread to "Jakes Rant Thread". In another year that thread will be the least of your worries cause you'll prob be in jail.

G/luck!
 
Aren't you getting involved or have a degree in some kind of social services? You should get used to dealing with different personality types like this.

Jakes brought up that he has underlying issues in other threads. I think his posts and threads are sometimes an extension of that.

I try to give the best advice I can, does it mean the person is going to take it? No. Even if I put a lot of effort into helping someone out, they're still going to make their own decisions at the end of the day. At the end of the day whether or not someone on Bluelight uses drugs does not effect me in any way whatsoever. If I'm rooting for someone to get clean then it can be a bit sad if they relapse, but other than that there's no point in getting overly-vested with someone's posts.

Jakes clearly struggled for a while. It's sad, I hope he finds his way. I've said my mind of a few of his threads and about his posts throughout the years, but like I said there's nothing I can do about his use. I'm still struggling with my own problems.


A few years ago when I first got into heroin, before I even ever had to post in the Darkside, I was just posting in the "I'm so High Thread" and on the Other Drugs board and some other boards. There was a poster then, a senior member, who would PM me from time to time and warn me about my use. Teling me I was being naive and don't get caught up with the fools glamorizing heroin usage. Of course I took offense to it at the time, but now I wish I could apologize to him. He took an interest in me and I did not reciprocate any sort of appreciation. I'm sure it left a bitter taste in his mouth, and 5 years later I'm certainly not having the last laugh.

Speak what's on your mind, speak from experience, don't judge, and just hope your advice or what you're saying helps someone. That's how I view BL at least. Live and let live. :) Live and let fuck up.
 
I'm considering taking Lexapro for PAWs as well. Do you find it works better with or without the Inderal?
 
No such thing IMO. I called mine "controlled relapses" for a time being. After awhile I had to admit what it was, a relapse cycle. I couldn't get out of it without help and suboxone.

Anyways, when I quit opiates this last time (I was also quitting booze though) I totally lost it twice. Once like 5 days after I quit (when I decided to stabilize on Sub) and then like a week later. I realized these are the times I would normally relapse. I'm pretty sure I would have drank at the very least had I not been in a program.

16 days is a decent amount of time though....
 
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Carl Landrover said:
Of course I took offense to it at the time, but now I wish I could apologize to him. He took an interest in me and I did not reciprocate any sort of appreciation. I'm sure it left a bitter taste in his mouth, and 5 years later I'm certainly not having the last laugh.

Speak what's on your mind, speak from experience, don't judge, and just hope your advice or what you're saying helps someone. That's how I view BL at least. Live and let live. :) Live and let fuck up.
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I'm sure it didn't leave a bitter taste in his mouth. I'm sure he was warned when he first started using opiates. Shit I know I was. I've warned people and continue too, but I'm not expecting them to say "thanks alot!". They don't listen, but if it just plants a little seed then I have at least accomplished something.
 
My relapses on heroin are usually carefully planned and rarely get me in trouble (except when my mom finds some gear, fuck I love prepping a shot but I almost always leave a cap from a spike or a spoon around). I was shooting dope everyday for a couple years and I've been able to chip ever since. I bought a ten pack of spikes in august and still have a couple left. Anyway I've been able to do this for the last two years. I really don't want to have the life of a dope addict again. I'm too much of an extrovert and that's what my friends know and love about me and dope took that away. In my experience relapsing on booze seems to get me in more trouble. I will go a few weeks or a couple months without doing anything and making meetings regularly but as soon as I start drinking I go buck wild and do something really stupid or dangerous. In the words of my shrink relapsing is like a roulette wheel and the more you spin it the higher your chances of fucking up your life. Anyway I'm still on the fence about using. I definitely miss smoking herb the most especially because it seems to treat digestive disorders I have like no other OTC drug can. Yeah you can do a controlled relapse but as soon as it becomes a fairly regular occurrence you are in what phactor calls a "relapse cycle."

P.S. Controlled usage, like once a week, once a month, etc. almost makes your life more unbearable than everyday use because you are just marking off the days until you let yourself use again. You are wasting a lot of days not living in the moment.
 
Yes nervousone Lexapro did A LOT for my paws first time around. Well I can only assume it did because I remember the depression/anxiety being almost nonexistent, but I could have also had a more moderated bout of paws.
But definitely DEFINITELY take inderal with the lex. Even after acute wds end, your adrenaline system is still firing off like crazy making you shakey/anxious/overstimulated. Inderal puts the breaks on all that shit immediately, (for me at least) and combined with Lex they both compliment each other well.

In terms of this thread I finally have an answer.
There IS a such thing as a "controlled" relapse. I did it a couple times before and never made a thread about it. It was something I was secure about, I didn't need reassurance from other people, and after I chose to relapse (just to give myself a break from wds) I went back to sobriety, I've done this only twice however in the past.

The problem is however, when I made a thread about it this thread was a result of the fact that subconsciously I was contemplating something much more serious. Its weird how the couple times I didn't make a thread I went right back to abstaining, but the 1 time I made a thread I was obviously insecure, have had enough, and haven't been sober since. Although I did make it a week after this thread before I gave in.
 
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