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Considering going back on MMT

L

loocipher

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Joined
Oct 27, 2017
Messages
7
Hello all,
Been a long time bluelight lurker, from my early stages of experimentation, onto addiction, and then SURPRISE, the recovery section. Brief background on me:

Heavy drug user of almost all types, eventually deciding that IV meth and opiates are my fav. Long story short, awhile back I did 10 months on MMT and it provided me the best 10 months of my life - became interested in things again, motivated, and didn't use except for a few trips on 4-aco-dmt. I ended up having to goto jail for some old stuff and detoxed in jail. Came out and managed to stay sober for a few months getting into AA, but have been using some oxycodone the past few weeks. Needless to say I've let the monster out again.

My question: I'm really considering going back on the methadone. My life was just so good while I was on it - I was happy! And I feel like I'm just gonna progress with my use. I'm not withdrawling tho. So do u guys have any advice?
 
Do it. Mmt is the best decision I made with my addiction. Sleep on it and if it still seems like the thing to do then go to the clinic
 
Question: Why did you get off methadone after just 10 months before? Most of the research seems to suggest people do better using methadone as ORT/MMT for more like 2-3 years. A lot of people do well with six month extended tapers, but that isn't maintenance and really only takes into consideration the acute/post acute withdrawal phase or early recovery, which is a rather small (not insignificant) part of it.

The only question I'd ask is what your current habit looks like since you started using again? Have you tried buprenorphine in the past, or other treatments? Generally methadone is what is recommended after all other options are exhausted. The upside to this is you probably have a good idea of how recovery works by then, with the best chances for making the most of methadone. The downside is that, if methadone doesn't work, it can work pretty poorly. That said, you've already done methadone before and had good result. So my only questions are in terms of why you got off methadone after just 10 months?

This sounds like are very viable option to me, getting on methadone as mid-long term ORT/MMT. If it feels right for you, go for it.

Use your prior experience with this to your advantage. After stabilizing over the first 3-6 months, it's a really great way to better yourself in other ways - such as giving you a platform to get yourself back on your feed economically, in terms of housing, with education or professionally, and likewise it's a great time to do trauma therapy, get into healthy kind of exercise and other lifestyle habits (such as proper nutrition, getting health issues taken care of, etc).

If you felt stable for 10 months, imagine what you could do in 24-36 months? There are no words to accurately describe the possibility of opportunity with this. I much prefer it to other forms of long term treatment because it spreads the burden out long term, which is essentially the only way to really get a handle on substance use disorder and mental health stuff.

Made it a lot easier for me to engage in other healthy behavior that was just too difficult prior to that kind of stable pharmacotherapy in my case. Getting off, if you do it well, need not be particularly difficult. So now would be a good time to educate yourself more about how methadone and methadone as ORT works.

Methadone made it super easy for me to avoid engaging in unethical behavior (the desperate "just to get by/well" kind of issues). And with my basic needs related to substance use entirely met, it gave me way more time and effort I had available to deal with getting psychologically, emotionally and physically healthy, find communities I could use to maintain my wellbeing on an ongoing basis, get back on track in terms of educational/professional goals, etc.

Let us know how you use. It would be useful to explore why methadone didn't seem to work out long term of you before (in terms of how long you stayed on MMT, but more the difficult you experienced maintaining abstinence from opioids after getting off methadone longer term than you experienced with this).
 
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OP. So you were "stable" 10 months on MMT. I find a really interesting part of your post being "Came out and managed to stay sober for a few months getting into AA". Did you stop going? You said it worked for a few months. Was that because you were putting in effort and then stopped putting in effort? I am curious.

As for methadone...I love it. One of my absolute favorite highs. That warm embrace. That heavenly nod. Nothing like a few glazed donuts while I waited for my dose and then some long slow drags through a Marlboro Red. And if I wanted some heavy duty euphoria I could just use right through it with much less fear of getting a hot shot. Plus most programs (in my area [added for clarity]) won't boot anyone unless they test positive repeatedly for benzos. Holy %^$ am I glad I am clean today.
 
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I really enjoyed low doses of methadone compared to higher doses. Fewer side effects, more productive, less overwhelming. But my goal wasn't so much to stop using drug, rather to stop doing illegal stuff (like most of my former drug use), to get out of unhealthy and unethical lifestyle and find some stability. Methadone was very helpful for that.

jd's post brings up a good point - finding a well run and professional methadone clinic is really important. I haven't really come across any so-called "juice bars," but from what I understand they are out there. As long as you have options in terms of a clinic, it's always best to shop around a bit, considering the above I mean.

I was lucky to stumble upon a really well run clinic, but even then they went a little downhill when the manager I started with was promoted and they hired someone who wasn't as qualified. And out doctor was absolutely horrible (in the sense he had probably the most harmful beside manner I've ever come across). But overall the folks who ran the clinic (minus the doctor) were very professional. Those are much more helpful than clinics you just go to dose at regardless of anything else (but these shady clinics seem pretty rare these days).

A good way to assess the quality of a methadone program is, how often will they drug test you, what kind of groups and counseling do they require, how do take homes work, etc. Especially how often you have group or counseling - which should be a minimum of once a week (ideally you'd see a counselor once a week regardless of groups).

If you liked AA OP, I know a lot of people who found it really useful to do it while on methadone. There are some caveats, and ideally finding a methadone friendly meeting is ideal (not easy to do however). But I've known enough folks who were closeted about methadone or buprenorphine who found 12 step stuff worthwhile and beneficial while on ORT. Of course, I know plenty of people who haven't found it helpful, but it all depends on one's specific needs as an individual. If you like AA before, just like with methadone, chances are you'll like it again.
 
Hey all,
Man really appreciate the responses to my post. To toothpaste:
I got off after 10 months because I had a pending case and ended up having to go to jail over that after months of trying to beat it. I tapered quickly before hand but still had one hell of a detox in jail.

My use right now is manageable with the help of kratom which, although I don't particularly like it, does seem to quiet the beast in my head. So I haven't even used any heroin/pharmaceutical opiates in about a week. Mainly tho I don't have any money which makes it a lot easier not to pick up. I'm not working right now due to some back issues, and the wifey will buy me kratom, and she's agreed to pay for my MMT, but she won't buy me street dope.

My use in the past has progressed to a point where if I really start going I'll be chasing it all day everyday. I've been an IV user for about 10 years now, and luckily the past few weeks I've not used a rig, but that's only because I don't have access to one. I'm probably what would be considered in NA the hopeless variety. Been to a few treatments, been to jail countless times, which is always how I end up stopping - I get arrested either for possession or theft.

I love AA. I'm not sure why it didn't work really, as I was really dedicated to my program. I relapsed on kratom because i thought it might relieve my pain to the point where I could work, but it didn't - but I know my addiction will try any way to get me to pick up - and it did. My sponsor said he'd be willing to sponsor me even if I was on MMT, and that we could try to work out a plan long term for when I decide to get off of it. I have found much relief in the 12 steps, and even though I've relapsed, I have grown as an individual because of AA and working with a sponsor. But STILL I pick up!

Really appreciate everyone's comments, and I'm gonna think about it some more today and talk with my wifey some more. Thank u guys
 
Sounds like you'd make a great candidate for picking up where you left off with MMT and AA. That must have been pretty frustrating you had to get out of treatment due to your court stuff, but at least that seems like it's now over for you.

How do you manage telling people (or not telling people) about your use of ORT in terms of recovery peer support? It really helps to have people you can talk with about methadone stuff who don't just judge you for taking a completely legitimate and appropriate medication, but finding people like that among recovery circles can be challenging.

Let us know how things develop.
 
Toothpaste:
It's an interesting question. The last time I didn't tell anyone about the methadone, other than family. And I stopped going to meetings all together, because i really wasn't sure the response I would get.

I'm very fortunate I have an AA sponsor who is open minded to other approaches and has quite a knowledge of addiction and recovery. So I knew I could be honest with him about maintenance and he said he wasn't sure exactly how we will proceed, but that we will in some way proceed. I think though, that I will keep quiet about the methadone as far as other people in the recovery community I belong to, unless my sponsor tells me to do otherwise.

So to answer your question, other than my sponsor I'm not really sure how I'm gonna handle telling people. I understand the importance of being honest, but I don't think that it's really important to mention except to my sponsor.

That being said, I also wouldn't falsely represent myself as a member of AA and that I'm working a program of complete abstinence. I had great hopes of perhaps being a great sponsor one day, and still do, but that time just hasn't arrived yet.

Anyways, hope this doesn't all sound like bullshit. I will def let u know how things progress. Really appreciate your comments.
 
I think you can accurately describe yourself as abstinent and sober as long as you are taking your medication (methadone included) properly as prescribed and not engaging in substance use disorder related harmful behavior (substance use disorder is about way more than just drug use, after all). So hopefully you can come to terms with the fact proper methadone treatment doesn't preclude abstinence or sobriety. That is a pretty insidious trap and will do nothing for your recovery.

If you have a good sponsor who is open minded and understands that you're using methadone as a treatment for opioid use disorder, that is awesome you'll have someone to safely talk about it with. Confidentiality is important, but good sponsors normally understand that.

It is probably in your best interest, at least for a while, to not be super transparent about being on methadone in 12 step circles. Most groups consider even appropriate prescribed methadone to be "just another type of drug use", which is entirely BS. Then again, many groups seems to also consider psych meds to just be another form of drug use too...

What's most important is that you don't have to hide what you're doing from important people in your life, namely family and your sponsor. Learning how to skillfully about complicating things by being super transparent about it in your homegroup is actually a good learning experience. Not hiding anything, but also not doing yourself a disservice by blasting your very personal info out there.

Down the road, once you have some time sober and have stabilized on methadone, you can always test the waters among your groups to see whether it's worthwhile coming out about your treatment there. After all, as long as it is safe for you to do, we definitely need more voices that accurately reflect the usefulness of something like MMT, particularly among 12 step circles. Generally all you hear about there is how horrible and evil the stuff is, and the representations are hardly very accurate when you only have the voice of people who didn't use their methadone properly (for whatever reason).

But that isn't something to really consider as long as you have people you can safely discuss it with, at least not until you're most established in your recovery.
 
Toothpaste:
Really appreciate your comments. There certainly is a bias within the AA/NA community about MMT so yeah besides my sponsor I'm gonna keep that info to myself.

I'm actually sitting at the clinic now, so I'll let you know how it goes. I've given it much thought and really do think that this is the way to go right now. Thanks everyone for your input.
 
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