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Coming Down the Mountain (PST Taper and W/D)

MarginalProphet

Bluelighter
Joined
Sep 5, 2017
Messages
59
Hi Guys, I'm here because of poppyseed tea (PST).


Thumbnail of my life: I was a fairly heavy alcoholic (averaging ~7 drinks daily for the 6 years that I've kept data) in my 20s and 30s. After an ugly confrontation of my wife in Nov 2016, I stopped drinking altogether. I pretty much used PST to kick my drinking habit.


Before this I wasn't exactly opiate naive, but I have definitely never taken any kind of opiate for this many consecutive days -- not even close.


I damn near overdosed on it on my first try: 8 oz of seeds (popular brand) mixed with near-boiling water. I knew something was wrong pretty quickly. I passed it off to my wife as food poisoning, but I was delirious, vomiting and awake all night (too scared to let myself sleep) and into the next morning, and slept the morning away before I started to feel well enough to eat some food.


After waiting a few days and based on my prior attempt, I defined one dose as 2 oz of seeds. I always supplement with ~10 mg THC or so, to potentiate and also keep myself honest. This gave me the feeling I wanted, and I began making the tea regularly.


I've kept meticulous records of my dosage, which has escalated predictably over the course of 2017 from 1 dose/day to several days of 6 doses/day in the last few weeks, spaced throughout the day, almost never more than 1.5 doses per "session". (I can't share my data here because I'm still a greenlighter, sorry).


Although this level of dosage (<1 lb at my heaviest, but spaced throughout the day) seems objectively fairly small compared to other accounts I've read here and elsewhere, I went on vacation to Hawaii in Feb at much smaller levels than my current daily average and suffered through a couple bad days of withdrawal there. Flu-like symptoms included extreme lethargy, runny nose, diarrhea.


I joined Bluelight, and am posting this now, because I will again be away from home starting next Saturday, for about 3 weeks. I am trying to spend the next 1.5 weeks tapering down to the smallest dose I can tolerate, so that when I jump off the W/D will be as mild as possible.


I am also looking for innocent and readily-available OTC or other remedies to help with what I figure will be some kind of inevitable W/D. After reading several threads here and elsewhere on opiate withdrawal in general, it seems like Immodium will be important to have on hand... What else? Besides making sure to keep myself nourished, getting as much exercise as I can, and continuing or perhaps elevating the THC dose, I am open to ideas, advice, shared experiences with this, etc. Thanks.
 
Thanks for the reply, @xivixive! It looks like Lyrica is a prescription drug... I don't have a doctor right now so there's no chance I'll be able to establish care and get a script for this before my trip, hence my request for OTC remedies. Are there any commercially available similar drugs that you know of?

As an update: I scared the shit out of myself yesterday reading online accounts of PST withdrawal, and decided I should accelerate my plan. I can't be getting with the runs on a 6 hour flight, and I have an infant to take care of on this trip. I took 2.5 doses yesterday, in morning and evening sessions. Morning was 1 dose around 10 AM, evening was 1.5 doses around 4.

I didn't sleep very well last night, but that's just been happening lately anyway... Infant in the house. I woke up this morning feeling fatigued and vaguely unwell, had a cup of coffee and started experiencing abdominal discomfort. Got the shits and the abdominal pain was getting worse so I took 0.5 dose (1 oz seeds) about an hour ago with 10MG THC and felt immediate relief.

My goal today is 1.5 doses total, the 0.5 I already took this morning at 9:30, the other 1 dose I will take as late in the afternoon as possible, likely around 5 or 6.
 
Don't hype yourself up. Lyrica helps, but so does gabapentin, a weaker (subjectively) relative of Lyrica. You have herbs such as valerian, scullcap and chamomile to name a few OTC remedies. Those will help.
 
Yes, thanks Speed King, I am trying not to freak out. The prospect of WD seems very horrible and I'm feeling the same way about it that I did about drinking to avoid a hangover -- dread. Still, a 1/2 dose this morning made me feel well enough.
 
You. Have only took one maybe two steps on the road to recovery you still have many many harder tougher and more painful steps so don't get ahead of yourself and pat itself on the back etc just remember no matter how bad life is for you theirs always some one else worse off than you.Amy
 
Update: I took 3 half-doses (1 oz poppy seed each) yesterday, at 9:30 AM, 2:30 PM and 6:00 PM, each with 10mg THC. I was originally going to take a full dose at night to help with sleep, but I was already feeling pretty uncomfortable by 2:00 and anyway, I'm not trying to get high here -- just to make the withdrawal as easy as possible given the time I have. So I split that allotted dose between afternoon and evening. I don't know that I slept at all last night. Maybe a few hours at best, but I was tossing and turning all night. Still, no remarkable cold sweats, RLS, etc. Really just bad insomnia.

Not sure how to approach today. I'm sneezy and sniffly at 6 AM, so I figure the shits are not far away. I think I'm going to try 1/4 dose whenever I can this morning, another 1/4 in the afternoon, and 1/4 in the evening. Maybe it's time to start supplementing with OTC meds to help with sleep and shits.

This really hasn't been *too* bad yet, and I'm starting to wonder if I'm going to get off easy here, relative to the hell I've read about others' PST withdrawals. I only had 3 oz yesterday and I survived. I wasn't high but I wasn't suffering. I want to be as aggressive about this as I can. Thank you all for your continued input.

@xivixive, 0.75 lb (12 oz) is the highest daily dose I have ever taken. I took that much, through the day, on four days, between 8/24 and 8/28 of this year (two weeks ago). That was my peak lifetime usage rate, just to give you some idea of my level of use.

Starting to wonder if I should just jump off and get it over with, but I'm trying to stick to the plan.
 
if you have to any, subs are the best way down the mountain imo.
if you do message me and ill tell you about the rapid sub taper
goodluck pal
 
Thanks, @keeping! Subs = suboxone, yes? I don't have access to any prescription meds right now as I am between doctors. But thank you for the offer. Honestly, it seems like the tea is my best resource as it has a very long half-life and I can measure it down to the smallest fraction of a dose I'd care to take. The only risk in my mind is that I will be tempted to get the party going again and take a larger dose. But I know that, one way or another, I'm getting on a plane next Saturday, and I'll be away for 3 weeks with basically no possibility of making any tea. So I'm highly motivated to kick it ASAP. So thank you for the offer, but I'm on my own here.

I took 1/4 dose just now at 8:00 AM, 0.5 oz seeds, a pitifully small amount. I do feel some relief from it. I think I'm going through a very gradual withdrawal here, and it's going to work. Feeling pretty good about it at this moment :) I may go down to the drug store today and stock up on Immodium, Benadryl, Zantac, and whatever else I can find on the shelves that may help... Perhaps 5-HTP, melatonin, chamomile tea. A good night's sleep is the thing I am lacking most right now.
 
Thanks, @keeping! Subs = suboxone, yes? I don't have access to any prescription meds right now as I am between doctors. But thank you for the offer.

yes subs, by which i mean any buprenorphine-containing product.
and i wasn't offering you any physically aha, just offering advice friend. ༼ ༎ຶ ෴ ༎ຶ༽
 
This micro-dosing sucks. I took 1/4 dose at 8, 1/4 at noon, another 1/4 at 2:30. My body is definitely telling me I'm running a PST deficit, but I'm trying to think of every bad moment as another step towards freedom, and how much worse this would be if I were going CT.
 
Well I made it through yesterday with 0.75 dose, that's 1.5 oz of seeds. But I drank heavily last night, 7 drinks total, so now I'm hungover *and* going through the PST WD. Not good. Why did I do that? I'm having a 1/4 dose now to calm my stomach and stop the sniffles. Hope to keep it under a full dose today.

The last few days have not been fun, but they've been bearable. Unfortunately I also ran out of my THC edibles yesterday. I have some pot I can smoke if needed.
 
Dosage today: 0.25 at 6:00, 9:30, 11:30. 0.75 at 2:30 (we're going out tonight; this is the last dose I'll have today). That's a total of 1.5 doses, or 3 oz poppy seeds, which is more than I wanted to take today but still brings my 3-day dosage down by a full dose (I took 2.5 doses on 9/5, 1.5 on 9/6, 0.75 on 9/7).

When I chart out my dosage levels, I am almost back to July 1 for my 3-day average, and mid-July for my 7-day average. My 3-day average peaked near 6 doses/day on 8/26, 7-day peaked at 5.5 doses/day on 8/30, 30-day average peaked just above 4 doses/day on 8/31, 60-day average has been plateauing around 3.3 doses/day since 8/31. So I have made visible progress this week.

I can't tell how much of the crappiness I'm feeling is from my hangover and how much is from WD, but I wouldn't wish this on anyone, and I think I'm probably barely suffering compared to the other accounts I've read of PST withdrawal!
 
But I drank heavily last night, 7 drinks total, so now I'm hungover *and* going through the PST WD. Not good. Why did I do that?

Probably the most miserable I've ever been was from a hangover combined with opium withdrawals. I understand why you would drink - to escape the discomfort of the WDs. You probably thought you'd just have a little alcohol to take the edge off, but ended up drinking more and more. Hangover and withdrawal together is a unique kind of self-created hell.

I wouldn't wish this on anyone, and I think I'm probably barely suffering compared to the other accounts I've read of PST withdrawal!

Don't bother comparing your experience to other people's. There are only a couple of 'settings' when it comes to WDs anyway: bad and worse.

Good luck with it. I know it's easier said than done, but try not to take too much of anything else (THC, benzos, whatever else) to get you through. I don't think there's any secret formula to making it through PST withdrawals, and looking for a short cut can be dangerous.

All the best.
 
Thanks for the message, @Halif2. It doesn't help that the PST is pretty much a complete hangover cure for me. Yes, it started as a beer because our friend was in town, and before I knew it, I was at the corner store buying 200 ml of vodka. I had 5 drinks last night at a wedding, and after my last PST dose at 2:30 PM yesterday, woke up this morning feeling awful. I took 1/4 dose at 6:30 (before my morning coffee, unheard of!) and a cup of coffee later I'm actually feeling pretty good right now.

This micro dosing is working. I've got another 7 days before I board the plane. I spent a bit of time this morning trying to lay out a dosing schedule for the upcoming week, but really, my goal is just to have the absolute minimum possible to bring relief. I think I can get through today with 0.75 dose total, spaced out in 3 intervals. That's half of what I had yesterday. The 0.75 I took at 2:30 yesterday made me feel like a regular person again for the first time in days. If I can make it through today with 0.75 dose (that's 1.5 oz poppy seeds), maybe I'll try 1/2 dose total tomorrow, 1/4 dose Monday, and jump off on Tuesday. We'll see... Thanks again for the reply.
 
Update: I made it through yesterday on 0.75 dose (1.5 oz poppy seeds), taken in 3 intervals. I felt pretty horrible all day, but it was bearable. I had 4 drinks last night, and 25 mg diphenhydramine to help me sleep. I tossed and turned all night, but I did sleep a bit. This morning I feel... pretty OK! A bit of cramping last night. I'm tired, with some low-grade abdominal pain, but I don't have that feeling of dread and awfulness. Stool is loose; I think I'll pick up some Immodium today and replace one of my PST micro-doses with a dose of that.

I think I'm on the other side of this... Not out of the woods yet, but I can see the end. I haven't been exercising regularly, and that's probably contributing to my feeling fatigued. Perhaps I'll go on a run today. I'm going to wait as long as I can before I take another 1/4 dose today. The goal today is 0.5 dose total, but if I can get by on 1/4, all the better.
 
I've taken two 1/4 doses today, one at 8:45 and the other at 2:30. I just bought a bottle of immodium and took 8mg (2 adult doses) around 3:45... the diarrhea came on strong this morning before my 8:45 dose, and came back right after my 2:30 dose. 0.5 dose, 1 oz seeds, is not what my body wants right now. My *minimum* over the past few weeks has been 6 oz per day. I have to have faith this is working.

Smoked a little pot yesterday and today. I'm not used to smoking pot and got way too high off one hit yesterday. Today was better, and it has calmed my stomach discomfort a bit. I also chugged a Gatorade just now and that felt great.

This is day 5 of my rapid taper. I never want to go through this again. It's horrible. Do yourself a favor and don't make a habit out of poppy seed tea!
 
Let us know if you'd like to move this thread to SL or TDS for some good old fashioned recovery support :)
 
Hi @toothpastedog, yes, please feel free to move this wherever you think it belongs. I think there's also a more appropriate sub-topic I saw somewhere like (taper journal) or (withdrawal journal)? I don't know my way around the place yet so I just posted in the first forum I found :) Do what you think is best.

Update: I tossed and turned all night but did get some sleep -- I remember my dreams, so I must have been sleeping at some point! Took another 50 mg diphenhydramine for sleep last night.

I think there might be something to the idea that loperamide does cross the BBB to some extent, under some circumstances, or something. I dunno, but after the 8 mg I took last night I felt.. centered for the first time in days. Maybe it's nothing more than calming my abdominal discomfort (I discovered years ago that the source of many/most of my bad moods were due to stomach discomfort and poor eating), but this morning I woke up feeling like myself again. Tired, but no feeling of dread and doom that I've had for the last 5 days. My stomach feels normal, and my mind feels good again. I was worried I would never feel normal again after this, but my first hour of consciousness today has been very good!

After the 0.5 dose (1 oz total) of PST I took yesterday, today I am scheduled to take 0.25 in a single dose. But I may just jump off today and see what happens. Trying not to get too excited about this, but I think the worst of it is over for sure!
 
Well, I don't know whether to call this a taper or more of a guided withdrawal, using the PST to relieve the harshest symptoms. More like a crash landing than a slow glide to the ground :) I have definitely been going through withdrawal for the last 6 days, but I discovered the COWS scoring system yesterday and my symptoms have been mild to maybe-moderate during the worst of it, which was 3 days ago. Yesterday, I had 0.75 dose, or 1.5 oz of seeds, in 3 separate sessions at 9:15, 12:45, and 3:30. I also had 5 drinks and a few tokes throughout the evening, and 50 mg diphenhydramine at bedtime. I got a good night's sleep for the first time in a week last night -- still some tossing and turning, but I woke up feeling refreshed and energetic today.

I don't think I'm out of the woods yet, but I've crash-tapered myself down to a much lower dose than I've been used to, and I'm functioning normally at that level now. 0.75 is more than I wanted to take yesterday, but Lord, each one of those micro-doses brought immediate relief from the worst of things. To maintain the same slope of reduction in my 3-day usage, I must take 0.5 or less today. I cut my morning coffee with 1/3 decaf because I think the caffeine has been contributing to my abdominal discomfort (I've been doing poor man's speedballs with strong coffee and you-name-it for basically my whole adult life), and if I make sure to eat properly, well, I'm going to go as long as I can today without a micro-dose. Maybe with loperamide I can go the whole day without one.

I know that I feel better today, this morning, than I have in a week. Better than yesterday morning, although things got worse later in the day.
 
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