As opposed to what? I don't really understand what's so good about loving opioids. I mean I'm all for opioids, I think they are practically the best drug for recreation (except psychedelics of course, but that's a different kind of recreation), and they are definitely my DOC, but how is that good? The addictive potential, the WDs and the financial aspects are all not too bright. I'm aware of the fact that any addiction can be horrible, but still loving opioids doesn't strike me as anything to feel good about.
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As opposed to what? I don't really understand what's so good about loving opioids. I mean I'm all for opioids, I think they are practically the best drug for recreation (except psychedelics of course, but that's a different kind of recreation), and they are definitely my DOC, but how is that good? The addictive potential, the WDs and the financial aspects are all not too bright. I'm aware of the fact that any addiction can be horrible, but still loving opioids doesn't strike me as anything to feel good about.
RodJonse
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As opposed to something difficult to acquire or entirely synthetic and only available via rx or illicit sales.
There's nothing "good" about loving opioids. That's largely subjective, as well as the potential for addiction which is obviously going to depend both on response and what opioid is being used.
They're not recreational drugs. Five years, four of which included taking them on a daily basis, showed me that very clearly.
That of course is also subjective, but as far as I'm concerned they are to be lumped in with psychedelics, some dissociatives and many non-hallucinogens in the same manner of "Please, respect the plant - it'll respect you back only then."
So there's nothing akin to "you should take opioids, I love them" in my point. I know people who love them, people who hate them, people who feel indifferent about them and I understand that, but all I was trying to say is that they're widespread and easy to get with plentiful options at least a third of which remain legal either entirely or through a loophole in most countries. Some drugs simply do not have this kind of support, or many - if any at all - analogues that are acceptable. The only way I can see someone who isn't inherently an addictive person reaching a point with opioids where all of that becomes pointless is through IV administration of anything stronger than morphine (hydromorphone is, in my experience, a more serious offender here than H, oxymorphone et al).
Also just being a little cocky. 8)
On an off note: as far as WD goes...yeah, that sucks. That's mostly being very sick for a week or two, often made easier by a lesser opioid. I can now say that is absolutely nothing whatsoever compared to the indescribable Benzo withdrawal. Hell is real and it awaits far too many people with scripts in however many years.
There's nothing "good" about loving opioids. That's largely subjective, as well as the potential for addiction which is obviously going to depend both on response and what opioid is being used.
They're not recreational drugs. Five years, four of which included taking them on a daily basis, showed me that very clearly.
That of course is also subjective, but as far as I'm concerned they are to be lumped in with psychedelics, some dissociatives and many non-hallucinogens in the same manner of "Please, respect the plant - it'll respect you back only then."
So there's nothing akin to "you should take opioids, I love them" in my point. I know people who love them, people who hate them, people who feel indifferent about them and I understand that, but all I was trying to say is that they're widespread and easy to get with plentiful options at least a third of which remain legal either entirely or through a loophole in most countries. Some drugs simply do not have this kind of support, or many - if any at all - analogues that are acceptable. The only way I can see someone who isn't inherently an addictive person reaching a point with opioids where all of that becomes pointless is through IV administration of anything stronger than morphine (hydromorphone is, in my experience, a more serious offender here than H, oxymorphone et al).
Also just being a little cocky. 8)
On an off note: as far as WD goes...yeah, that sucks. That's mostly being very sick for a week or two, often made easier by a lesser opioid. I can now say that is absolutely nothing whatsoever compared to the indescribable Benzo withdrawal. Hell is real and it awaits far too many people with scripts in however many years.
Thanks for the clarification. Put it like that, I mostly agree. Though, I would make a big distinction between prone-to-IV-use opioids like H and milder oral opioids like codeine or kratom. I used to use the latter two in a sensible way and it was the greatest time of my drug-life all things concerned. I think weak-moderate oral opioids and strong IV opioids are on opposite extremes of the spectrum of potential to cause harm.
I would probably say that psychedelics as DOC would be the best scenario, because they're non-abusable and physically relatively harmless (if you don't suddenly decide that performing a hara-kiri will bring you enlightenment while tripping). Also what you said about benzo vs opioid withdrawal is very on point. I would vote for benzos in regards to the worst DOC, so much that I don't even feel tempted to try them even though I like GABAergics and use them often (alcohol, phenibut) and I'm not really a person who abstains despite the desire.
Now reading my own post I fail to see how it's any relevant to the thread, but hey... we all make mistakes.
I would probably say that psychedelics as DOC would be the best scenario, because they're non-abusable and physically relatively harmless (if you don't suddenly decide that performing a hara-kiri will bring you enlightenment while tripping). Also what you said about benzo vs opioid withdrawal is very on point. I would vote for benzos in regards to the worst DOC, so much that I don't even feel tempted to try them even though I like GABAergics and use them often (alcohol, phenibut) and I'm not really a person who abstains despite the desire.
Now reading my own post I fail to see how it's any relevant to the thread, but hey... we all make mistakes.
RodJonse
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I know what you mean, but I'm not sure that's the drug any more than the method of administration. Obviously you don't need something strong to feel what causes the abuse of opiates via IV. It's that the rush, effect and duration of something like morphine will quickly wear off and diamorphine will be adopted.
To be more analogous, I know people who smoke H and have never touched a needle. Their addictions don't seem to be as rampant, nor is it as prone to become such a part of their life. They're getting off on something else though, and likewise it can be said for a lot of drugs that IV will generally be much better.
Not to step on your POV though, just speaking from what I've been through.
Benzos are easily the worst in my opinion. Often isn't even a drug of "choice". Many of us physically dependent on them (I refuse to call myself an addict in regards to a drug I hate so much) are just given them at some young age and it's too late before we even realize it.
You become too tolerant too quickly. That tolerance goes away so slowly. The effect is never worth it - same feeling I have about coke, except I'd rather waste too much money and be mad at myself for not just going with amphetamines for one day after over shitting my intestines out while my brain is pricked at with scissors constantly and I take six months residence at the most horrifying, fucked up version of DXM's plateau sigma my brain can create without DXM during the most strenuous downregulation I think any human being will ever know. As far as I'm concerned, Benzos are the codifier for the argument of mankind not trying to emulate or improve upon nature with psychoactives (which as a whole is bullshit, and MDMA is more than enough proof, but Benzos are failed experiments to me and the z-drugs are a step in the right direction despite having many of the same issues).
To be more analogous, I know people who smoke H and have never touched a needle. Their addictions don't seem to be as rampant, nor is it as prone to become such a part of their life. They're getting off on something else though, and likewise it can be said for a lot of drugs that IV will generally be much better.
Not to step on your POV though, just speaking from what I've been through.
Benzos are easily the worst in my opinion. Often isn't even a drug of "choice". Many of us physically dependent on them (I refuse to call myself an addict in regards to a drug I hate so much) are just given them at some young age and it's too late before we even realize it.
You become too tolerant too quickly. That tolerance goes away so slowly. The effect is never worth it - same feeling I have about coke, except I'd rather waste too much money and be mad at myself for not just going with amphetamines for one day after over shitting my intestines out while my brain is pricked at with scissors constantly and I take six months residence at the most horrifying, fucked up version of DXM's plateau sigma my brain can create without DXM during the most strenuous downregulation I think any human being will ever know. As far as I'm concerned, Benzos are the codifier for the argument of mankind not trying to emulate or improve upon nature with psychoactives (which as a whole is bullshit, and MDMA is more than enough proof, but Benzos are failed experiments to me and the z-drugs are a step in the right direction despite having many of the same issues).
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