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Combining stimulants and depresants - what is the real risk?

For non-overdose situations, it's my understanding that the problem is that stimulants increase pulse and blood pressure while depressants decrease the rate of respiration. So we have a situation where the heart is under greater stress, requiring greater amounts of oxygen, but where we also have reduced intake of oxygen. This is not good in terms of cardiotoxicity.

It is my understanding too that the overdose situation is what really gives such combos a bad name. The addition of the stimulant can make dangerous territories with the depressant feel more comfortable, as others have noted. Additionally, if the stimulant and depressant have markedly different time-courses (speedball, I'm looking in your direction), one may wear off, allowing the other to press into dangerous territory.
 
Alright, there seems to be this universal acceptance that mixing stimulants and depressants is extremely unhealthy, but I'm calling out the validity on this..

If anything, it seems like depressants (and opiates) mixed with stimulants (d-amphetamine in particular) would actually be MORE healthy as the depressants will help to lower the heart rate, muscle tension, and blood pressure diminishing the body load of stimulants.

Many people on this forum agree with me saying that benzodiazepines in conjuction with stimulants will greatly diminish the negative effects of the stimulant. However, some of my friends in real life are adamant in defending "Woah dude don't mix uppers and downers you're heart will give out and you'll die!!"
From personal experience, this has never been the case. Amphetamine almost always gives me muscle tension and muscle pain (especially on the crash), and using a depressant (diazepam, clonazepam, lorazepam, zolpidem, or alcohol) or an opiate (morphine or hydrocodone) will GREATLY relieve the muscle tension, and hence reduce the work that my heart will be doing.

I could be horribly wrong, but it would seem to me that the whole "Uppers + Downers = Bad" is simply a drug-myth, and just because it sounded cool people automatically took it to be true.

If anybody has any links to any articles, references, or lab experiments that could contribute to a solid answer, that would be great
 
I think a lot of the risk depends on the specific depressant(s) and stimulant(s).
 
I'm not the best for info on this subject but I believe Temeraroius's standpoint to make the most sense. I mean think about it; higher heart rate would increase the need for oxygen which the body cannot get because you're nodding out barely breathing equating to too much stress on the cardiovascular system. This scenario is all very hypothetical and has too many variables.
 
SpunkySkunk347 said:
Alright, there seems to be this universal acceptance that mixing stimulants and depressants is extremely unhealthy, but I'm calling out the validity on this..

If anything, it seems like depressants (and opiates) mixed with stimulants (d-amphetamine in particular) would actually be MORE healthy as the depressants will help to lower the heart rate, muscle tension, and blood pressure diminishing the body load of stimulants.
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From my intuition I'd have to agree with this. There's been times on coke when I feel like my heart is going to explode and just know my blood pressure is through the roof. On opiates + coke all of that shit subsides. I'm feel relaxed and don't even have an abnormal pulse. I've never had a heart palpitation or anything else sketchy happen with my heart when I mix the two. That's not to say it takes away all the dangers of coke.

I don't think there's much of anything behind sending a mixed signal to your brain. Your brain has a good way of synchronizing all the impulses you get and puts you in a "consistent" state of mind. That's why speedballing is different from both coke and opiates by themselves. I'm under the impression the main concern about the mix is the delayed OD from opiates.
 
It is high school science that the the autonomic nervous system is divided into two parts: sympathetic and parasympathetic. The important part being that they are ANTAGONISTIC of each other, and result in a net effect of a balance of 'fight or flight' and 'rest and digest' depending upon the relative activations of both systems.
 
sorry old thread, but im on mephedrone right now, and xanax or valium really helps with any anxiety and doesnt make my heart feel like its jumping, actually my heart rate is lower than usual on meph, i think its opiates and stims that are dangerous becuase of the breathing issues, benzos on the other hand can help quite alot? Been told by alot of knowaledgeable people this but want any other opinions.

cheers
 
bignbrown said:
sorry old thread, but im on mephedrone right now, and xanax or valium really helps with any anxiety and doesnt make my heart feel like its jumping, actually my heart rate is lower than usual on meph, i think its opiates and stims that are dangerous becuase of the breathing issues, benzos on the other hand can help quite alot? Been told by alot of knowaledgeable people this but want any other opinions.

cheers
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Mephedrone lasts an hour (in fairness, the aftereffects go on for a while longer, but the good part is about an hour). If you can't go an hour without taking a xanax, you might just have a benzo problem.

That said I don't see too many problems arising from the combination.
 
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i do have a benzo problem yes, so the benzos are needed for stims, but just in general, people say uppers and downers are bad, but i think its mainly opiates and stims, benzos can be quite handy imo.
 
I really don't like the feeling if going up and down. If I take any kind of speed, and then I take a Small amount of opiates I feel god awful and real confused. If I just take benzos it Usually works out, Then a larger dose of opiates I'm OK.
 
Hmmmm, I don't know what to make of this; many are stating that combining Methylphenidate and Codeine is fine, yet I experienced a 6 hour period of disassociation, psychosis and horrifically impaired motor ability when I did this combo? I took 120mg of codeine, around 20 minutes later I took 120mg Methylphenidate, then 20 minutes later I did another 30mg codeine. Anyone shed any light?
 
So from what I've gathered from this thread
Benzodiazepines + stimulants = relative safe.
Opioids + stimulants = playing with fire.
 
Krowsnose said:
From my intuition I'd have to agree with this. There's been times on coke when I feel like my heart is going to explode and just know my blood pressure is through the roof. On opiates + coke all of that shit subsides. I'm feel relaxed and don't even have an abnormal pulse. I've never had a heart palpitation or anything else sketchy happen with my heart when I mix the two. That's not to say it takes away all the dangers of coke.

I don't think there's much of anything behind sending a mixed signal to your brain. Your brain has a good way of synchronizing all the impulses you get and puts you in a "consistent" state of mind. That's why speedballing is different from both coke and opiates by themselves. I'm under the impression the main concern about the mix is the delayed OD from opiates.
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From what I've heard, ODing on opiates follows a simple principle: "You'll only die from it if you fall asleep" and that staying awake will somehow stop death from an opiate overdose.

I don't know whether that's true or false, but it sounds convincing.
 
Your breathing slows further when you are asleep, combined with opiates, this is very bad news.

Unless you go into respiratory arrest, then being awake will not help.
 
SproutOnSmack said:
Hmmmm, I don't know what to make of this; many are stating that combining Methylphenidate and Codeine is fine, yet I experienced a 6 hour period of disassociation, psychosis and horrifically impaired motor ability when I did this combo? I took 120mg of codeine, around 20 minutes later I took 120mg Methylphenidate, then 20 minutes later I did another 30mg codeine. Anyone shed any light?
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Well, I see no problem with combining those two chemicals. However:

Codeine is a mild dissociative, though not nearly as severe as Morphine (as far as Opiates go).

The main problem I see here is-- You took 120mg of Methylphenidate. That's a little much, don't you think? The most I can physically handle is 80mg, and that's even pushing it. I become introverted, paranoid, dissociated and basically all of the effects you've described at that dose sometimes, and when I have dosed higher (long ago) the effects were just the same. Combined with the Codeine (especially if you have no tolerance, which I am assuming, since you are dosing with Codeine) you are *bound* to feel like this.

Don't take such heroic doses of Methylphenidate. I can't drink coffee (ulcers), and I have Chronic lethargy, ADD and Panic Discorder (lovely combination, innit?)-- so I start my day with my own version of 'EsbelCaps'. When I get my scripts filled, I crush 30mg of Methylphenidate pills and mix them with 0.5mg Clonazepam and put the mix in an 00 gelcap. That seems to be the ideal synergistic dose for myself, and I am a rather large individual (103kg). Throughout the day, if needed, I will re-dose with 10 to 20mg of Methylphenidate once or twice, and add in another 0.5mg Clonazepam when/if needed; and that keeps me well beyond tweaked, yet completely focused on my tasks for the entire work day.

So basically, cut the Methylphenidate dose in HALF (if not by 3/4), and it should be a lot more enjoyable.
 
I'm pretty sure the only reason they're bad is because their effects seem cancelled out to users, leading them to take more than they can handle of one or the other..
 
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