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BDD Moderators: Keif’ Richards | negrogesic
Codine pills
- Thread starter Willtdawg
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belligerent drunk
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What quantities of each drug does one pill contain? Being somewhat familiar with APAP/codeine pills, I'm going to assume that the 325 mg is APAP's mass. Depending on how much codeine is in that pill, you might or might not need to do a cold water extraction. That depends on which type of scenario applies to you:
1) You want to get high off codeine and it's a once in a blue moon type of thing. Then you could take up to 3-4 g of APAP at a time once without it being harmful to you. That's a maximum of 12 pills. Depending on the codeine content of the pills, that might be too much or too little.
2) You plan on using them often (as in more often than a couple times a week). Then you shouldn't exceed 2 g of APAP per dose to avoid potential liver damage. Again, depending on the codeine content that might mean you need to CWE.
There's another caveat. The pills contain caffeine. That might be problematic because caffeine is water soluble and will even survive the CWE if you do need to perform it. Basically depending on your tolerance, if the pills contain as much or more caffeine than codeine, it might be too much caffeine. Say you want to take 200-300 mg codeine, that'd be at least 300 mg caffeine, which is a large dose.
So yeah, do specify all drugs' quantities.
1) You want to get high off codeine and it's a once in a blue moon type of thing. Then you could take up to 3-4 g of APAP at a time once without it being harmful to you. That's a maximum of 12 pills. Depending on the codeine content of the pills, that might be too much or too little.
2) You plan on using them often (as in more often than a couple times a week). Then you shouldn't exceed 2 g of APAP per dose to avoid potential liver damage. Again, depending on the codeine content that might mean you need to CWE.
There's another caveat. The pills contain caffeine. That might be problematic because caffeine is water soluble and will even survive the CWE if you do need to perform it. Basically depending on your tolerance, if the pills contain as much or more caffeine than codeine, it might be too much caffeine. Say you want to take 200-300 mg codeine, that'd be at least 300 mg caffeine, which is a large dose.
So yeah, do specify all drugs' quantities.
falsifiedhypothesi
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We need to know the amount of codeine in the pills. You are gonna need to do a cold water extraction on these because they are likely low dose codeine/ high dose acetaminophen pills.
The extraction involves chilling water, dissolving the pills in the cold water, filtering out the goop that’s left undissolved and drinking the left over water. If you don’t do this extraction the tylenol these pills is gonna do some real damage to your liver.
Also the caffeine in these pills might negate the sedative and relaxing properties of the codeine, so be cautious because you might take a massive dose of caffeine and just get uncomfortably stimulated.
The extraction involves chilling water, dissolving the pills in the cold water, filtering out the goop that’s left undissolved and drinking the left over water. If you don’t do this extraction the tylenol these pills is gonna do some real damage to your liver.
Also the caffeine in these pills might negate the sedative and relaxing properties of the codeine, so be cautious because you might take a massive dose of caffeine and just get uncomfortably stimulated.
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I agree with what Belligerent and Falsified have to say regarding the APAP. The limits that have been suggested are pretty adequate, but the main takeaway is that you should only have to ever ingest minuscule amounts of APAP provided you can familiarize yourself with the process of Cold Water Extraction. It's a very simple process that anyone should be able to complete. Being that it is so easy, there shouldn't be any suitable reason to ingest large amounts of APAP. Simply wanting to get high and not having the proper materials is not, from a Harm Reduction standpoint, something that we can encourage.
As far as what dosage of Codeine is ultimately going to be appropriate for you, that's difficult to say. There are obviously varying levels of intoxication and different people are going to desire more or less intoxication based upon their preferences. Codeine is a drug that is going to exert effects at a highly variable rate from person to person, as it must actually be metabolized, specifically, de-methylated in vivo into Morphine. The rate and efficiency at which a person's enzymes will make this "conversion" varies wildly from person to person and even between different ethnicities.
If we're going off a fairly reasonable assumption that you are a normal metabolizer, Codeine (3-Methylmorphine) will be metabolized into approximately 1/10th its weight in Morphine. An appropriate starting dosage for someone regarding Morphine could be as low as 10mg and I wouldn't advise going over say, 40mg until you know how the drug will effect you. At any rate, these dosages will not be enough to kill or harm you. The worst case scenario with these conservative guidelines is going to be nausea, vomiting and somnolence.
So, to be clear, you shouldn't be exceeding 400mg Codeine in a single sitting until you know how the drug will effect you. I would conservatively recommend anywhere between 50mg - 150mg. Please bear in mind, based upon what I've said, these are rough estimates, but a good place to start.
As far as what dosage of Codeine is ultimately going to be appropriate for you, that's difficult to say. There are obviously varying levels of intoxication and different people are going to desire more or less intoxication based upon their preferences. Codeine is a drug that is going to exert effects at a highly variable rate from person to person, as it must actually be metabolized, specifically, de-methylated in vivo into Morphine. The rate and efficiency at which a person's enzymes will make this "conversion" varies wildly from person to person and even between different ethnicities.
If we're going off a fairly reasonable assumption that you are a normal metabolizer, Codeine (3-Methylmorphine) will be metabolized into approximately 1/10th its weight in Morphine. An appropriate starting dosage for someone regarding Morphine could be as low as 10mg and I wouldn't advise going over say, 40mg until you know how the drug will effect you. At any rate, these dosages will not be enough to kill or harm you. The worst case scenario with these conservative guidelines is going to be nausea, vomiting and somnolence.
So, to be clear, you shouldn't be exceeding 400mg Codeine in a single sitting until you know how the drug will effect you. I would conservatively recommend anywhere between 50mg - 150mg. Please bear in mind, based upon what I've said, these are rough estimates, but a good place to start.
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downerhead
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I've heard a bunch of various recipes for lean, containing a variety of ingredients, tho most recipes I've heard generally call for hydrocodone (both in powdered pill form and Tussionex syrup) or codeine,or both. I've also heard of oxycodone in some recipes, but they all call for some kind of opioid, promethazine, alcohol ( I've heard of people using liquor[normally vodka], Loko/Joose/Blast/Boss, etc......), some people use quetiapin (Seroquel), benzos (usually Xanax), and various pharmaceuticals. Just for curiosity's sake, what's in the lean you drink?
I'm going to assume that you have Tylenol 3 with codeine as to which pills you're asking about, since I have yet to hear of a 325mg codeine pill. Those have 30mg of codeine in each pill. As others have said, it's anyone's guess as to your opioid tolerance, personal body chemistry, metabolism, height, weight, body mass index, whether you take them on an empty or full stomach, and the lots and lots of factors that are important when determining how you will respond to a given amount of a given drug. When I was 15, I already had a pretty good size opioid tolerance. Whatever your tolerance, codeine is generally regarded as a "baby" opiate, good for antitussive qualities but it takes most opioid users a large dosage amount to get nice and high. I would do a CWE on them as others have advised, whatever the amount you take, because the amount required to get high will include a lot of APAP. On a side note, if you are 15 and don't actually need it, I would think twice about starting on the opioid road so young. I wish I would have because I have been a chronic pain patient for more than 20 years and, due to my extensive use of large, high dosage amounts of powerful opioids (I started on pills younger than you and by 16 I was injecting heroin), it requires a lot of powerful opioids (I am prescribed roxy 15s and need more and stronger opioids than what I'm getting prescribed) due to my tolerance levels. Just something to keep in mind because 1). opioid WDs are hell on Earth and 2). If you ever need opioids, it will take a lot more to do the job.
I'm going to assume that you have Tylenol 3 with codeine as to which pills you're asking about, since I have yet to hear of a 325mg codeine pill. Those have 30mg of codeine in each pill. As others have said, it's anyone's guess as to your opioid tolerance, personal body chemistry, metabolism, height, weight, body mass index, whether you take them on an empty or full stomach, and the lots and lots of factors that are important when determining how you will respond to a given amount of a given drug. When I was 15, I already had a pretty good size opioid tolerance. Whatever your tolerance, codeine is generally regarded as a "baby" opiate, good for antitussive qualities but it takes most opioid users a large dosage amount to get nice and high. I would do a CWE on them as others have advised, whatever the amount you take, because the amount required to get high will include a lot of APAP. On a side note, if you are 15 and don't actually need it, I would think twice about starting on the opioid road so young. I wish I would have because I have been a chronic pain patient for more than 20 years and, due to my extensive use of large, high dosage amounts of powerful opioids (I started on pills younger than you and by 16 I was injecting heroin), it requires a lot of powerful opioids (I am prescribed roxy 15s and need more and stronger opioids than what I'm getting prescribed) due to my tolerance levels. Just something to keep in mind because 1). opioid WDs are hell on Earth and 2). If you ever need opioids, it will take a lot more to do the job.
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Downerhead, I totally understand where you're coming from in wanting to steer people away from the misery of addiction. I cannot, in good conscience, say that it is a bad thing, however, when we're talking about our discourse here on the forums and especially in Basic Drug Discussion, we just don't have room for everyone to take a shot at saving someone from addiction. Members of the community pride themselves on their knowledge and their willingness to help and with that in mind, we have to make the assumption that people have a general awareness of the addictive qualities of the drugs that they are using.
I'm not saying that it's a given, but I was well aware that Opiates were highly addictive and potentially destructive by the time I was 9 and I didn't use Opiates until I was 13. I would venture to say that the vast majority of kids in the western world and probably the world in general, are aware of the negative qualities of Opiate use and drug use in general. So, given this, it can cause unnecessary "congestion" in the forums when everyone sort of de-rails the harm reductioin discussion, in favor of a public service announcement on the dangers of these practices. I know your heart is in the right place, but it's not what we do here. We are purely about Harm Reduction for people who have made the conscious decision to use drugs. I hope that makes sense and I have absolutely nothing against your principles man.
Now, the "lean" stuff I have less respect for. Lean is Codeine and Promethazine, period. By trying to attach various drugs to the slang, you're only going to create confusion. There's no point in saying "I drank some lean" when what you've really done is say, put Codeine and Diphenhydramine (Benadryl) into some Kool-Aid. It's much easier for people to navigate and understand the forums when we keep the unnecessary slang to a minimum. If you're ever talking about actual, pharmaceutical lean, as it were, then it would be much better to just call it Codeine/Promethazine.
I'm not saying that it's a given, but I was well aware that Opiates were highly addictive and potentially destructive by the time I was 9 and I didn't use Opiates until I was 13. I would venture to say that the vast majority of kids in the western world and probably the world in general, are aware of the negative qualities of Opiate use and drug use in general. So, given this, it can cause unnecessary "congestion" in the forums when everyone sort of de-rails the harm reductioin discussion, in favor of a public service announcement on the dangers of these practices. I know your heart is in the right place, but it's not what we do here. We are purely about Harm Reduction for people who have made the conscious decision to use drugs. I hope that makes sense and I have absolutely nothing against your principles man.
Now, the "lean" stuff I have less respect for. Lean is Codeine and Promethazine, period. By trying to attach various drugs to the slang, you're only going to create confusion. There's no point in saying "I drank some lean" when what you've really done is say, put Codeine and Diphenhydramine (Benadryl) into some Kool-Aid. It's much easier for people to navigate and understand the forums when we keep the unnecessary slang to a minimum. If you're ever talking about actual, pharmaceutical lean, as it were, then it would be much better to just call it Codeine/Promethazine.