Codeine (Tramadol) Taper

[neonlike]

Hi all,

Been essentially swapping one drug for another since about 16 yo. 20 years later and I'm at the point of needing to quit for a while. I tend to do each drug until the fun runs out or the drug stops enhancing experiences and begins to ruin them. I could give you a 20 year history of various drugs and tales of arrest, pissing the bed while sharing it, shitting myself in the bath, losing my job and still tell you I want to do some in moderation! Having been taking codeine, swapping it for tramadol for probably three years now, I am now at the point of realising things that brought me joy before do nothing for me. This is why I'm going to stop. It's easy to stop other drugs that have caused me obvious problems: anxiety etc due to stimulants, or drugs that I no longer enjoy and these drugs I would and could never see myself doing at work. I couldn't. However, I have been functioning very well with a mild opiate addiction, but its gonna go.

I know I need to deal with my actual addictive personality, but what I want to do now is show you my plan and get some advice on dosages, times of day etc. I mainly am writing this to make it real.

I teach three days a week, Tues to Thurs, and have ten days off starting 21st October. This is when I plan to jump. I have jumped before 5 or so years ago off a much higher dose and it took a long weekend to get through the horrible bit and my emotions came back maybe a week after jumping. I know this is a very mild dose but I need to try and work without sweating horribly all over the place in front of my students.

I am switching tramadol for codeine because of availability.

Current dose: approx 200mg tramadol a day.
Tuesday 27th Sept: switch to codeine 16x8mg=128mg
Friday 30th Sept: 10x8mg=80mg
Friday 7 Oct: 7x8mg=56mg
Friday 14th Oct: 5x8mg=40mg
Friday 21st Oct: Jump

Any advice on the above would be helpful. I usually dose at night, but as I want to get through work, maybe morning would be better or split in half? I am open to changing these dosages. The days are chosen as I will have four days off work to settle into the new dose.

I have a prescription for pregabalin (lyrica) one month of 300mg per day, which I may use more of at first and taper that down. I often take 600mg or none, depending on the severity of anxiety. This is prescribed for anxiety btw. This is my weak point. I have insomnia normally (except after working), anxiety pretty much constantly and RLS being the main problem that nearly broke me last time I quit. This time sweating while at work teaching is a worry.

I am doing this in secret.

I also have a bunch of kava powder and some dxm powder (never done before). Maybe a very small amount of this with the lyrica and loperamide will cushion the slide down? Any recommended dosages here would be helpful.

That's it for now I guess.

Thanks.

 

[kleinerkiffer]

Od -> BDD

 

[HeadHigh]

Okay, so the issue here is that Tramadol has SNRI properties as well as opioid properties, therefore codeine is not going to cover all of the bases. If you have any tramadol left, i would highly advise tapering that first, so as to lessen the mental aspect of withdrawals. Other than that, your dosages seem fine. Lyrica and Kava are probably going to be your best friends here, but try to use them as sparingly as possible so that you dont trade for another addiction.

Best of luck my friend.

 

[neonlike]

Okay, so the issue here is that Tramadol has SNRI properties as well as opioid properties, therefore codeine is not going to cover all of the bases. If you have any tramadol left, i would highly advise tapering that first, so as to lessen the mental aspect of withdrawals. Other than that, your dosages seem fine. Lyrica and Kava are probably going to be your best friends here, but try to use them as sparingly as possible so that you dont trade for another addiction.

Best of luck my friend.

Thank you. I realise about the SNRI properties and have about 3-4 50mg tablets of Tramadol left. So will maybe have half (25mg) each morning and lessen the codeine for a few days. I can maybe access a very few more and prolong this scheme.

As I am prescribed the Lyrica, these are going nowhere soon, so I'll face that one once I get through this and see how the anxiety is after a month maybe.

Thank you.

 

[HeadHigh]

Reply back to this post to let me know how it goes for you. and if you need any support, we're all here for you

 

[neonlike]

Reply back to this post to let me know how it goes for you. and if you need any support, we're all here for you

Thank you. So far, a bit off schedule... as I have three gigs this weekend (musician), Thurs, Fri and tonight, I have cut down to 100mg Tramadol, just before I leave. This as been about 5-6pm, so all day is fine on this dose so far - half of the usual leading up to this. Today I'm trying 16mg of co-dodamol every 4 hours (as on directions) so twice today, until I do a CWE for the remainder before I go to perform, maybe I will drink half before and half before bed.

To make matters worse I am ill. I have blocked ears, swollen glands, sore throat etc. I'm hoping that these will actually help, as I have an excuse to be a bit off and it may help mask some of the other WD symptoms as I can psychologically put them down to being ill. Having to go out and look like I'm having fun helps with the achey legs and very very mild tightness (my body knowing it isn't getting as much) - these are psychological though, me knowing what my plan is projecting it into physical nonsense!

Bought lots of fruit and veg (and frozen fruit) I will make smoothies with to get that kale and spinach down easily along with cold / flu / blocked nose remedies - don't worry, I got versions with no paracetamol / aceta(whatever).

Thanks for the support. Knowing at least someone is gonna tell me off if I don't stick to it is a good motivator for me.

 

[neonlike]

Bought lots of fruit and veg (and frozen fruit) I will make smoothies with to get that kale and spinach down easily along with cold / flu / blocked nose remedies - don't worry, I got versions with no paracetamol / aceta(whatever).

For the cold, not the WD btw.

 

[HeadHigh]

That sounds like a good plan. I hope you stick by it, my friend. Im in the middle of cutting down my kratom use, so i am in a somewhat similar position, and i know the psychological pain

 

[neonlike]

That sounds like a good plan. I hope you stick by it, my friend. Im in the middle of cutting down my kratom use, so i am in a somewhat similar position, and i know the psychological pain

So far so good. 9pm and only 6x8mg codeine so far today.

I tried kratom when cutting down opiate use in the past and found that it exacerbated the WD symptoms. I think all the other chemicals in the kratom have their own WD profile, so you have quite a lot going on as you cut down to deal with. It's all chemistry and our bodies are chemicals too. Soon we will be balanced without the extras we've been treating ourselves too, a little too much and a little too often.

Let me know how you've been getting on.

Good luck to you too.

 

[neonlike]

Damn the half life of codeine vs tramadol. I need to reconsider the doses and the dosing schedule.

I have accessed more tramadol (only about 8x50mg for now, but have access to more). Even a half of one at night gets me smoothly through over 12 hours of work the next day. I do a CWE of codeine in the evening and I'm waking in the middle of the night needing a dose. It doesn't help my osteoarthritis in my shoulder is f'ing killing me at the moment either.

I used the conversion chart (converting both drugs into their morphine equivalent) and went for the lower end of the codeine range originally. I may use half a 50mg tramadol on the days I have work, then go down to a third of one next week, while using the codeine on my days off (when I lower my dose). This is also practical as I can drink the CWE in rations during the day when not at work. I will recalculate the codeine dosage, but may be able to work my way down cutting up the tramadol and skipping the codeine entirely.

How is the Kratom 'taper' going?

 

[Slow_Mobius]

Have you tried using the kava for sleep? That's one that carries virtually no risk of developing another physical addiction.

 

[neonlike]

Have you tried using the kava for sleep? That's one that carries virtually no risk of developing another physical addiction.

No. Not yet. I will try it tonight.

 

[Slow_Mobius]

Let us know how it goes. FYI you might to spend some time looking for prep methods if you havent done it before. It can be tricky to make. If you do it right, it should really help with the anxiety

 

[neonlike]

Let us know how it goes. FYI you might to spend some time looking for prep methods if you havent done it before. It can be tricky to make. If you do it right, it should really help with the anxiety

I did prepare a drink once and it was such a pain and mess!

I may just choose a small dose to start with and toss and wash.

 

[neonlike]

An update...

My taper went poorly. The pressure to be 'normal' at work meant each week had a three day hiatus in the middle of each week. So I am pretty much jumping without a proper taper.

Last week Tues-Thurs: work. 25mg Tramadol morning. 50mg Tramadol night.
Fri: Travel to London to visit friends. 25mg Tramadol morning. 50mg Tramadol night.
Sat: Hunt saboteuring then out with friends: 25mg Tramadol morning. 50mg Tramadol early evening.
Sun: 600mg Lyrica. 15mg Mirtazapine (before bed).
Mon: 300 mg Lyrica.

Only feeling is anxiety and cravings. Tiredness (maybe the Miratazpine). I have until a week Saturday without pressure to go out, but lots to do in preparation for work and career stuff. Applications and the like.

I may be back one or twice a day, as this will probably help me through (or not) and give others some comfort.

 

[neonlike]

Other symptoms:

Difficulty concentrating
Shaking hands
Ability to type is diminished a lot
Unable to recall words and facts etc

 

[neonlike]

An update...

Last week Tues-Thurs: work. 25mg Tramadol morning. 50mg Tramadol night.
Fri: Travel to London to visit friends. 25mg Tramadol morning. 50mg Tramadol night.
Sat: Hunt saboteuring then out with friends: 25mg Tramadol morning. 50mg Tramadol early evening.
Sun: 600mg Lyrica. 15mg Mirtazapine (before bed).
Mon: 300 mg Lyrica.

Monday afternoon: 300mg Lyrica (in addition to the 300mg taken in the morning). 15mg Mirtazapine

I have work on the computer that needs doing but because of the difficulty concentrating, shaking hands, losing the ability to type and being unable to recall words and facts etc I gave up. As the cravings and uncomfortableness are very strong I took the Mirtazapine and fell back to sleep around 4pm.

Woke up at 10pm thinking it was the next morning and when trying to sleep I have RLS but this is spread to my osteoarthritic shoulder. I am in pain physically. I took another 15mg of Mirtazapine and fell asleep until 10am Tuesday.

This morning (Tues) was uncomfortable. Took 300mg of Lyrica, ran a hot bath, got out feeling quite a bit better and took another 300mg of Lyrica, with a very small amount insufflated. This makes the Lyrica work quicker.

Now the Lyrica is working I actually feel quite normal. I have been playing the piano, which takes away all cravings. If I stop to make tea or food the cravings are very present. If I play the piano they are gone.

I am getting no actual dopamine like pleasure from the piano, but find the technical effort needed to practice intricate fingering etc rewarding.

I have shaking hands still, I can type better than yesterday, but have to keep deleting and correcting errors a lot. My legs are fidgety, but not RLS crazy.

The Lyrica is a godsend. It takes an hour or two to get working, but snorting a little speeds this up. I wouldn't recommend snorting as it is very powdery, lots of fillers, so a little on top of swallowing it helps give it a bit of a nudge.

I have no anxiety, no sweating, no problem eating or drinking; in fact I am eating a drinking more instead of dosing with either codeine or tramadol. Smoking tends to increase anxiety, but is not out of control. Toilet functions are normal but more frequent.

I tried to imagine going to work, teaching. This would not be impossible, but my brain is not quick. I would have a bad day and am glad I have the week off.

Thankfully the Lyrica takes a lot of the edge off. I am not at the edge of my skin wanting out like previous WD experiences.

I will keep playing the piano now and then and know at some point I will hopefully start to feel the emotional content of the music. This is the reason I am doing this as I noticed that I have stopped feeling. I have played the piano from the age of three. I want my feelings back.

 

[neonlike]

I realise I am pretty much writing this to keep occupied and document the process for me now and others in the future, but If you are reading this and can comment that would be helpful as I'm doing this in secret on my own. Thanks.

 

[Speeedmagic]

Hey man, I've gone through many many many drug WDs as I am a poly-addict. Benzos are definitely the worst. I'm in a mild opiate WD right now actually, and I am on 300mg of Effexor daily (a SNRI).. and I bounce on and off it, so I definitely know what you're going through. The toughest toughest part of ANY WD is the mental/psychological aspect. Filling your time is essential, whatever makes you feel like you've had a fulfilling and long day at the end of the day. Stay positive man. We're all proud of you.

 

[neonlike]

The toughest toughest part of ANY WD is the mental/psychological aspect. Filling your time is essential, whatever makes you feel like you've had a fulfilling and long day at the end of the day. Stay positive man. We're all proud of you.

Thank you. This really helps. You're right, keeping occupied to stop the craving is the most important part... trying to find something to do, while feeling shitty is the difficult part in doing this.

Later on yesterday I had another 300mg of Lyrica, with a little insuflated. Then before bed 30mg of Mirtazipine.

Woke up at 5am. Had another 300mg of Lyrica and watched some comedy (fresh off the boat) and slept till 10am.

Today I have to go get a haircut and visit my dad in care. My legs are crawling. I hate this bit. I have had another 300mg of Lyrica, with a little insuflated and a hot bath. Hopefully this will help the legs.

I am feeling better mentally as some time has past, 3-4 days in, so I can start to be proud of the progress, so dosing now would be very stupid!

No horrible WD symptoms, but definitely very uncomfortable. Could be the Lyrica or could be the fact I managed to keep my tolerance low, even though it has been a continuous habit this time for 3-4 years. Before this I was on a LOT of codeine and the WDs were absolutely awful for the first few nights. So even though I stayed straight for only a few weeks, staying on a low dose, except for a few binges, must have definitely helped this time.

The Lyrica definitely helps. I have at points been very comfortable, on a high dose of Lyrica. 900mg a day at the moment. I will start tapering back down to 150mg once or twice a day when the legs start to get back to normal.

The Mirtazipine has definitely helped getting to sleep. Maybe not staying asleep as much, but a godsend. On my last WD (CT high tolerance to codeine) the nights were unbearable, sleep was not an option for days. I have slept solidly for 8 hours on the Mirtazipine.

Hair cut may be a bad idea, but we shall see how that goes!