Codeine to treat a bad trip

[Ismene]

Opiates can be a lot more euphoric and pleasant than benzos so I can see it helping some people.

 

[greenmeanies]

euphoric and pleasant is a subjective judgement. itching and forgetting to breathe is not beneficial to someone in a spiritual crisis.

 

[Bearlove]

It doesn't have the same effect as something you can "feel working". The placebo effect works on an unconscious level as well as a conscious level. Just telling someone "This will work" isn't as powerful as them feeling something happening them to them.

Remember the magic mushroom Marsh Chapel experiment? They gave half the people mushrooms and half nicotinic acid. They could have just given half a multi-vitamin pill and said "These are magic mushrooms" but if you actually feel an effect the placebo effect is multiplied massively.

were talking about codeine here though its not going to make the trip any better and for some people it could make matters worse due to the itching associated with codeine. So your giving the person codeine and telling them that it will help, placebo effect using something that has negative side effects. If your after a placebo effect use something that has zero negative side effects - if your looking to calm the person down then use a small dose benzo etc.

The Marsh Chapel experiment is something else - giving a sober person an inert substance and telling them they are going to trip is very different to giving a tripping person an inert substance and telling them its going to help.

Thats simply my opinion - if you think that giving somebody a substance with known bad side effects when they are already having a bad trip is a good idea then thats your opinion and Ill simply agree to disagree

 

[Vader]

Remember the magic mushroom Marsh Chapel experiment? They gave half the people mushrooms and half nicotinic acid.

Actually, I think that they used amphetamine as the control.
/OT

 

[allium]

I don't need a degree in pharmacology to know that benzos won't inactivate LSD in the human brain or body. Just common sense. Can you offer up the mechanism by which the benzo molecule deactivates LSD?

You'll be saying Kia-orange juice "kills a trip" next.

You sound like a troll for me. Have you checked wikipedia?

Benzodiazepines work by increasing the efficiency of a natural brain chemical, GABA, to decrease the excitability of neurons. This reduces the communication between neurons and, therefore, has a calming effect on many of the functions of the brain.

An oversimplification, but it is a good starting point.

"I don't need a degree in pharmacology to know that benzos won't make you sleepy.
Can you offer a mechanism, by which a benzo acts as hypnotic?"
Of course, it is just a placebo, people are convinced that they will fall asleep more easily wth a pill.

 

[Ismene]

You sound like a troll for me. Have you checked wikipedia?

For what? This mechanism you claim by which the benzo molecule deactives LSD in the human brain? Nope. Link me to it. I thought it was just something you'd made up.

to know that benzos won't make you sleepy.

And making you feel drowsy "kills" an LSD trip?

Of course, it is just a placebo, people are convinced that they will fall asleep more easily wth a pill.

Yes, benzo's in a sufficiently high dose can cause drowsiness in people - that's not the placebo effect, that's the effect of the drug. Do you understand the diffference between a placebo effect and the effect of the drug?

 

[Ismene]

Actually, I think that they used amphetamine as the control.
/OT

Sorry V, they used nicotinic acid.

 

[allium]

Who said benzodiazepines deactivate LSD or any other psychedelic? They reduce the effects of psychedelic to the great extent, both negative and positive. How about conduction your own study on your own mind a body? Just make sure you properly randomize capsules/solutions/whatever.

And making you feel drowsy "kills" an LSD trip?

Did I said this? Nope.
It is was a good analogy to show that your logic is wrong.

Do you understand the diffference between a placebo effect and the effect of the drug?

Yes, I do.

I am wondering, how do you distinguish them? It seems to me that your logic is like "one expect to get this effect from a drug => it is 100% pure placebo, no doubt", lol.