Clinicians not utilizing proper HR when treating PTSD?

[Salandrion]

Pretty interesting article all around. But this stuck out to me...

"It’s important to note that this study doesn’t suggest simply prescribing MDMA pills for the popping. Rather, throughout the course of therapy, patients are given two doses of MDMA over two eight-hour sessions held three to five weeks apart. This only happens once, and for some patients it will be the first and last time they ever take MDMA, but those three or four pills taken over an eight-week period could change their lives for the better."

http://www.vice.com/read/can-mdma-cure-ptsd

 

[Clocktower]

Well, if the patients are only going to take MDMA twice in their lifetimes, a three to five week break is probably sufficient.

Edit: OK, for some reason I only processed the first of those two contradictory sentences. Still the "once-in-a-lifetime" bit applies, and frankly this looks more like a reporting problem to me.

 

[JWills20]

Or perhaps BL offers HR advice that is too cautious? I'd imagine the scientists and clinicians have a far greater understanding of the dangers of MDMA than we do. Twice in 2 months sounds perfectly safe to me.

 

[Achten]

Not that I have any medical background but:

Twice in 2 months is probably safe, but not constantly, as is the case with some visitors here

 

[Exstazy]

3-5 weeks apart aint that harmfull ;P The brain is incredibly powerful and will repair itself. I've never felt worse on an E comedown than the one time I got bunk shit.. Every other time I've gotten high grade stuff I'm not 100% down until I wake up the next day with an afterglow..
Tons of people take E every week for a looong time.. I doubt 3-5 weeks between rolls ONCE will do any harm. Its the habital users who run into problems, and the ones getting bunk shit that tweaks them the fuck out.

 

[I<3Hallucinogens]

IMO, its better to be a little more conservative cause you know, theres that whole saying of "you can always take more but never less"... good thing to live by

 

[Mendo_K]

Or perhaps BL offers HR advice that is too cautious? I'd imagine the scientists and clinicians have a far greater understanding of the dangers of MDMA than we do. Twice in 2 months sounds perfectly safe to me.

This. 3-5 Weeks is quite far apart compared to what a lot of people take. Because you read on here, mostly horrific posts from people who cant handle a comedown that MDMA is the holy spirit and can only be utilized once every few months is just not right. Tell that to the millions of ravers from the 90s who did it weekly, and the thousands upon thousands who still do.

 

[futura2012]

If you take it weekly your simply going to fuck yourself up. Time and time again we hear horror stories of the results of this.

Taking it once a month or so is doable but once every few months is better.

I think the risky thing with MDMA is that the damage you are doing goes unnoticed until its too late that was certainly the case for me.

 

[electrodevo]

I'll also add that the PTSD therapeutic dose that I've heard about tends to be a bit lower than the atypical recreational dose. The spacing is fine considering they are not expecting MDMA use outside the therapy sessions. (I'm skeptical that this actually *works* very well, but hey, it might.)

Tell that to the millions of ravers from the 90s who did it weekly, and the thousands upon thousands who still do.

What I remember with the weekly user crowd was how so many of them had to eventually chase that magic by taking more and more pills per rave. 2,3,5,10... it just kept going up and up. Eventually there was no more.

Aside from potential damage, tolerance is a big reason for the once a month+ rule -- eg that rule helps prevent you from "losing the magic". Most people ignore the rule and eventually lose the magic. Their loss.

 

[futura2012]

The function and understanding of the brain is still in its infancy.

In some cases MDMA may alleviate or possibley cure PTSD however I think it comes with a big risk.

I have PTSD like symptoms caused by MDMA so its horses for corses in a way.

 

[JWills20]

The function and understanding of the brain is still in its infancy.

In some cases MDMA may alleviate or possibley cure PTSD however I think it comes with a big risk.

I have PTSD like symptoms caused by MDMA so its horses for corses in a way.

You admit yourself that MDMA was not the sole root cause of your long-term comedown. Rather, the combination of MDMA + BZP and the interesting enzyme inhibition theory which did seem quite plausible. The true dangers of MDMA are the illegality; resulting in impure, or even different chemicals and cocktails which can cause far more damage.

Of course, the difference in a clinical setting is the vigorous experimental control that can be applied. The MDMA would be professionally-made, weighed on an expensive, well-calibrated scale and administered with a psychotherapist on hand to guide the user. A long-shot off your uneducated gurner getting mashed on untested pills made by profit-driven criminals.

I'd be extremely surprised if the former could actually cause a long-term comedown as we see on this forum.

 

[futura2012]

You admit yourself that MDMA was not the sole root cause of your long-term comedown. Rather, the combination of MDMA + BZP and the interesting enzyme inhibition theory which did seem quite plausible. The true dangers of MDMA are the illegality; resulting in impure, or even different chemicals and cocktails which can cause far more damage.

I think the anxiety and long term symptoms were caused by this coctail but the social phobia, paranoia and confusion I experience was brewing before all my drama started. Unfortunately on several occasions I abused MDMA with reckless knowledge including several day festivals, heavey doses and sometimes other drugs.

Sure MDMA taken in coctail form and in illegal form is definitely a danger but not the only danger. I do agree with FBC on this one MDMA can and will cause brain damage if abused. What one might define as brain damage is debatable but it certainly caused me some changes in myself and not for the best I feel.

Of course, the difference in a clinical setting is the vigorous experimental control that can be applied. The MDMA would be professionally-made, weighed on an expensive, well-calibrated scale and administered with a psychotherapist on hand to guide the user. A long-shot off your uneducated gurner getting mashed on untested pills made by profit-driven criminals.

Just because the MDMA is professionally made and measured out using it for treatment in PTSD I think would be unpredictable and could come with risks. I guess if you are suffering from PTSD and may have a cure the risks might be worth it.

 

[Clocktower]

people who cant handle a comedown

Or maybe they just have higher standards for their mental health? I have an intellectually taxing job that would be noticeably or severely impacted if I suffered depression or anxiety symptoms for a week.

Tell that to the millions of ravers from the 90s who did it weekly

Can all of them really say that weekly MDMA use didn't change their mindset between rolls? That it didn't have an effect on their sober lives at all?

I think the real reason for the disparity of opinions on Bluelight is that different people have different ideas of what it means to be "healthy" or "OK." Sure, weekly use might not kill or hospitalize you, but for some even a small change in mindset might have an effect on their lives.

 

[Dresden]

I am one of those "ravers from the '90s" who took MDMA every weekend for years. I never had a hangover; on the contrary, I always had an afterglow the next day. I had zero negative mental health consequences from my MDMA "abuse." However, I did eventually lose the magic (and tons of money).