Chronically ill loser feeling ready to give up after series of blows

I agree I should have pain meds. As u can see in mg other posts I often self medicate with opioid agonists ,usually suboxone bc its cheaper and easier to obtain, bc doctors havent prescribed them. But like you said if I have this illness it can be so painful it warrants a special pain treatment plan. I still havent found a doctor willing to do what's necessary. Ketamine actually had done a lot of good before I started seeing these side effects but it's not a good staple drug like for daily use , doesn't last allday, etc,
 
Hey @copium7777
Hang in there mate,
It does get better.
Have you thought about detoxing from the ketamine? Like a medical detox?
Why would I need to d4tox from it I'm not dependent and I don't take a high dose. The problem with stopping it is I just have pain that needs to be treated somehow ...
 
I actually am not sure I technically have hEDS have never had. a genetic workup but since i have severe cci and no head trauma a lot of doctors have said I probably have it. that said I dont have sublyxations or joint issues besides my neck but that is quite severe
Ok, well hEDS doesn’t have a genetic marker yet anyway. There are good diagnostic criteria though for it. Have you hyper mobility in your joints? Like can you touch your toes without bending knees? Touch your thumb to your wrist? Anything?

Anyway, as you said, you most definitely need a prescription for pain meds. Get a dr who will listen to you.
 
Not to point out the worst case scenario, but bladder catheterization is really not as terrible as it sounds. You don’t feel much more than pressure from the actual cath placement and unless you live in a nudist colony, it’s unlikely others will notice the leg bag around your thigh.
I found a nephrostomy tube (where urine is drained directly from your kidney) to be much more uncomfortable and I lived with this for several months.
 
How funny, when you mentioned earlier about your bladder issues and the MCAS thing I immediately thought EDS because I have EDS but then I thought what’s the chances.

Look, like you say, your dr is favouring ketamine because he’s anti opioid. In a way he’s correct, is it likely to cause long term damage in a normal person? Probably not, but would I take that chance? No way and nor should he. With our condition especially, ketamine is just not a good choice. The irritation to the bladder and the fact we are poor healers would automatically make me dismiss it as an option for treatment anyway.

Have you joint issues? Subluxions/dislocations? I fail to see why you aren’t being treated with opioids for a condition that needs them. Absolutely ridiculous, if he was EDS aware he would know that there are some conditions you need opioids. Like there could easily be a plan in place to ensure you’re not gaining tolerance too quickly.

I am on a schedule 2 one with fent lollies for severe dislocations and I don’t know how I would actually live without that. I work and have a son. I literally couldn’t manage to get out of bed without my medication.
Honestly, I'm super anti-opioids, but this just sounds like a case where they are perfect, especially considering the EDS.

@copium7777 A life with opioids doesn't have to mean becoming a drug fiend, as long as you keep to a strict schedule and never give in to the desire to take more. You react badly to Ketamine & Marihuana, and your doctor should be understanding of this, no matter what his personal view on the matter is. This is about your pain, it's not about feeding an addiction. It sounds like you can barely have any quality of life without medication anyhow, you're playing with the thought of euthanisation, when opioids could actually help you regain some quality of life. I think in a rare case such as this, opioids could actually help you get your life back. I wish you all the best
 
Not to point out the worst case scenario, but bladder catheterization is really not as terrible as it sounds. You don’t feel much more than pressure from the actual cath placement and unless you live in a nudist colony, it’s unlikely others will notice the leg bag around your thigh.
I found a nephrostomy tube (where urine is drained directly from your kidney) to be much more uncomfortable and I lived with this for several months.
Honestly, it’s the infection risk that just means it would be something I’d avoid, especially someone with EDS. Like I even wonder would the Cath stay in place with the normal balloon it has? I’ve watched them pull out with ease in elderly patients and I’m pretty sure in an EDS patient it would be similar. I think it’s stupid of a dr to risk this in someone when it doesn’t have to be the case. Ketamine is clearly not tolerated and should be ceased.
 
I think it’s stupid of a dr to risk this in someone when it doesn’t have to be the case. Ketamine is clearly not tolerated and should be ceased.
I mean they clearly see how much pain I'm in but are scared to prescribe opioids , and so that's why they dont want to say to go off ketamine bc theyd have to give me something like opioids to treat the pain. I'd be fine with suboxone (which I know is opioid agonist but is partial agonist and treated differently) but seems lik I can't get that either for pain.

So like what am I supposed to do?

I also love ketamine effects on sound sensitivity and mood. I just don't get why I'm getting these effects all of the sudden after like years of using ketamine with no problem.

I think there are some clues related to the etiology of interstitial cystitis , general inflammatory problems , mast cell activation syndrome, and tethered spinal cord (which my doctors think I may have but I havent gotten thoroughly tested for ).

Apparently ketamine cystitis is basically the same as interstitial cystitis and interstitial cystitis is similarly "mysterious " (I hate that word in this context bc it basically just means it's been mystified by refusing to study it or pour money into studying it ) as stuff like pots, fibro, and me/cfs. And one thing that connects my current issues to interstitial cystitis is that interstitial cystitis can be caused by inappropriate activation of mast cells , in the bladder I guess. Causing excessive inflammation.

So I already have a diagnosis of mast cell activation syndrome , and so i know i have that problem and thus a tendency toward having inappropriate inflammatory responses to things that "normal people " wouldn't react to.
Also the tethered cord thing could cause bladder functional issues nad inflammation.

So these might be clues to why I react worse to ketamine than the average person... what do you guys think? @sekio curious about your input

Any other rare disease "" nerds doing their own research uncover this connection?? Between mcas, connective tissue problems, and bladder inflammation in response to relatively benign things like ketamine?
 
So I'm wondering if treating the mcas or tethered cord could mean I tolwrate ketamine again
 
Ok, well hEDS doesn’t have a genetic marker yet anyway. There are good diagnostic criteria though for it. Have you hyper mobility in your joints? Like can you touch your toes without bending knees? Touch your thumb to your wrist? Anything?

Anyway, as you said, you most definitely need a prescription for pain meds. Get a dr who will listen to you.
Yeah I know there isnt. a single genetic marker but a lotta epople seem to get diagnosis from geneticists.

The truth is I am not particularly hyper mobile if anything I'm more stiff than flexible. That's why the connective tissue damage without head trauma in my neck is such a mystery. But I think thay it's related to mcas , which can cause connective tissue damage simply through inflammation, and post infection inflammatory responses, like how some people get arthritis from viruses or something. I had major worsening of my neck pain after covid in march but this all started with a lyme infection.

So I dont think I have. A hereditary connective tissue disorder but I think I may have an acquired one. I dont think I meet most hypermobility criteria but then again I do have a sort of marfanoid look, very ectomorph , tall and skinny, etc , with long slender limbs, and long fingers that are double jointed. But most of my body is not hyper mobile, I think this is more acquired
 
Honestly, I'm super anti-opioids, but this just sounds like a case where they are perfect, especially considering the EDS.

@copium7777 A life with opioids doesn't have to mean becoming a drug fiend, as long as you keep to a strict schedule and never give in to the desire to take more. You react badly to Ketamine & Marihuana, and your doctor should be understanding of this, no matter what his personal view on the matter is. This is about your pain, it's not about feeding an addiction. It sounds like you can barely have any quality of life without medication anyhow, you're playing with the thought of euthanisation, when opioids could actually help you regain some quality of life. I think in a rare case such as this, opioids could actually help you get your life back. I wish you all the best
I am less concerned about "addiction" which is a behavioral issue that's more complex , than dependence and tolerance but it's possible I could have a surgery ina. Month that will greatly improve my quality of life and pain long term so this may be about what I can take to get through like a few months of pain rather than a lifetime of it. I wish doctors would prescribe suboxone for pain, I've had good luck with it and it doesn't seem to produce as much tolerance as other opioids , laso longer lasting :(

Yeah I think this is an obvious case where they are indicated but I also dont see how I can expend my energy to get a doctor to help with that given how anti opioid they are now.

Also nmda antagonist dissociative have effects on stuff besides pain like my sound sensitivity and insomnia that are helpful, I wish there were other drugs in same class that could help.

I also want to try intravenous lidocaine and maybe magnesium to see if it would help
 
Anyway, as you said, you most definitely need a prescription for pain meds. Get a dr who will listen to you.
My me/cfs doc who prescribed the ketamine definitely believes in my pain it's just about fear of the dea. It's such a major problem these days
 
Since nitrous oxide is similar to ketamine I wonder if there are clinics that use it to treat chronic pain or depression. It would be good to use it in a clinical setting bc they might monitor stuff like b12 and folate deficiency more thoroughly
 
Your dr is an idiot. Any issues with your bladder then ketamine use should be ceased. To continue using it whilst not knowing if it’s that or your other issues causing the problems is playing with fire. See the urologist, find out what’s wrong, if it’s not the ketamine then be pleased and resume but it does sound like it’s to blame.
See here's the thing. I know you're right about what should happen but given how long it takes to get pain meds in opioidnclass if it even ever happens , which is rare, what do I do for the mindblowing pain tomorrow. And the next day. Like instead of ketamine what do I take for the next few weeks to help this awful pain. Thatd why I want to believe my doctors right even though you make a lot of sense

Already maxed out on NSAIDs and tylenol
 
I am less concerned about "addiction" which is a behavioral issue that's more complex , than dependence and tolerance but it's possible I could have a surgery ina. Month that will greatly improve my quality of life and pain long term so this may be about what I can take to get through like a few months of pain rather than a lifetime of it. I wish doctors would prescribe suboxone for pain, I've had good luck with it and it doesn't seem to produce as much tolerance as other opioids , laso longer lasting :(

Yeah I think this is an obvious case where they are indicated but I also dont see how I can expend my energy to get a doctor to help with that given how anti opioid they are now.

Also nmda antagonist dissociative have effects on stuff besides pain like my sound sensitivity and insomnia that are helpful, I wish there were other drugs in same class that could help.

I also want to try intravenous lidocaine and maybe magnesium to see if it would help

Hey, that's fantastic news :)
Hopefully you'll get the surgery and will be feeling much better in a month.
I hope you'll succeed and will be out of this state soon!

I'm also suffering from hyperacusis, but that's due to Aspergers. I'm just sensitive to all my senses. If there's too much of something I'll freak out & get a migraine from the depths of hell.

This is actually exactly the field I work in, so I've got a bit to say: Are you sensitive to all sounds of a specific frequency or are you sensitive to some, and not sensitive to others, even though they are in the same spectrum? This is a huge factor when it comes to noise sensitivity.

The one tip I can give you about it is something you're going to hate to hear: DON'T AVOID LOUD NOISES. Makes everything so much worse. I've seen a bunch of cases, where people just avoided loud sounds altogether, and boy does it get hard to get back from there. Don't bombard yourself with them, but a couple of times a day, you're going to hear a loud noise, that's the life our brains are used to

There's another thing: Listening to White Noise daily can really help a lot. It's.. a lot to take in the first few times, white noise always used to hurt my head, but it's worth it to go through it. I started with very short exercises, just 10 minutes the first day, then gradually went up every day. It HURTS, really, but it will hurt a little less every time.
 
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This is actually exactly the field I work in, so I've got a bit to say: Are you sensitive to all sounds of a specific frequency or are you sensitive to some, and not sensitive to others, even though they are in the same spectrum? This is a huge factor when it comes to noise sensitivity.

The one tip I can give you about it is something you're going to hate to hear: DON'T AVOID LOUD NOISES. Makes everything so much worse. I've seen a bunch of cases, where people just avoided loud sounds altogether, and boy does it get hard to get back from there. Don't bombard yourself with them, but a couple of times a day, you're going to hear a loud noise, that's the life our brains are used to
My doctor explained that the hyperacusis is due to brainstem compression , an organic cause, from craniocervical instability so it's not a matter of being accustomed to no sounds, sound or noise is not therapeutic , I cant "work up to" being able to listen to more sound. Bc of it essentially being due to an organic brain injury that is ongoing and hasn't been fixed , like a brainstem tbi.

The only things that have helped with it are meds that lower glutamate. Brainstem glutamate increased in cases like mine, due to injury, and brainstem glutamate causes sound sensitivity. So I assume that's why any gabaergic or nmda antagonist or even opioid (since opioids have downstream effect on glutamate ) helps with the sound sensitivty. Or why traction (where the head is temporarily pulled away from the body , or upward if you're upright) helps. But I have not been able to increase the amount I can tolerate without medication and in fact that causes pretty bad crashes. Maybe it is different etiology than the type you are talking about ?


As for the first question its complicated and hard to describe, but depending on the severity on. a given day and if I overdo things, it can be mild or severe, and I think it's all sounds but definitely volume matters and maybe bass is worse , I'm not sure. It's hard to describe and I cant go into detail right now. But it goes along with vertigo and pain at the back of my head, apparently these are part of "cervicomedullary syndrome"
 
My doctor explained that the hyperacusis is due to brainstem compression , an organic cause, from craniocervical instability so it's not a matter of being accustomed to no sounds, sound or noise is not therapeutic , I cant "work up to" being able to listen to more sound. Bc of it essentially being due to an organic brain injury that is ongoing and hasn't been fixed , like a brainstem tbi.

The only things that have helped with it are meds that lower glutamate. Brainstem glutamate increased in cases like mine, due to injury, and brainstem glutamate causes sound sensitivity. So I assume that's why any gabaergic or nmda antagonist or even opioid (since opioids have downstream effect on glutamate ) helps with the sound sensitivty. Or why traction (where the head is temporarily pulled away from the body , or upward if you're upright) helps. But I have not been able to increase the amount I can tolerate without medication and in fact that causes pretty bad crashes. Maybe it is different etiology than the type you are talking about ?


As for the first question its complicated and hard to describe, but depending on the severity on. a given day and if I overdo things, it can be mild or severe, and I think it's all sounds but definitely volume matters and maybe bass is worse , I'm not sure. It's hard to describe and I cant go into detail right now. But it goes along with vertigo and pain at the back of my head, apparently these are part of "cervicomedullary syndrome"
O, sorry - I assumed a psychosomatic response, since that's where most hyperacusis cases come from. Still will have to hear some painful sounds now and again, though, I'm afraid. Don't want to develop reflex seizures.

Yeah, if there's brainstem compression, you can't do much to treat the pain, should still have an effect to desensitize your brain though - even if it's just a little less pain. That's for your doctors to decide, since I lack data. I hope they've checked you for a tumor? That's a big warning sign.

This is a hard thing to say, but you might have to overthink the possibility of opioids. I thought at least the hyperacusis would be treatable. I mean with your EDS, this is not going to be the last time you're going to be in fucking pain, there will be more and more things piling onto this. Here, in Germany, it's very common to treat EDS with opioids, because your brain knows them, and it's easy for your body to process them. I know the thought is scary as fuck, but just look at @MsDiz , she seems to be functioning better than most people in general. I think as long as you approach it with the mindset of "you're not doing this to have fun" and "it's about getting your life back", you can keep yourself from spiraling into addiction and ridiculously high tolerance.

Maybe get a third opinion from a doctor who is not strictly against opioids, and talk it through with them. Your doctor may be very good, but they are not being impartial here. It's important to view the puzzle from above, can't have personal feelings in the way.

To give a little bit of my own opinion here: I suffer from chronic pain myself, that is chronic sinew pain in my hands and legs, and my decision was to stick with the pain. I could have gotten medication, and I decided against it. (and yeah, the pain is intense, when I feel it)
So I'm really just trying to objectively think through your situation, I really don't want to push you in either direction, and I personally do not feel my pain anymore, unless I think about it like right now and typing starts to fucking hurt.
 
That's for your doctors to decide, since I lack data. I hope they've checked you for a tumor? That's a big warning sign.
Well, the source of the brainstem compression isnt a mystery bc it's a common problem with craniocervical instability, so I dont think they're concerned about tumors.
This is a hard thing to say, but you might have to overthink the possibility of opioids. I thought at least the hyperacusis would be treatable. I mean with your EDS, this is not going to be the last time you're going to be in fucking pain, there will be more and more things piling onto this. Here, in Germany, it's very common to treat EDS with opioids, because your brain knows them, and it's easy for your body to process them. I know the thought is scary as fuck, but just look at @MsDiz , she seems to be functioning better than most people in general. I think as long as you approach it with the mindset of "you're not doing this to have fun" and "it's about getting your life back", you can keep yourself from spiraling into addiction and ridiculously high tolerance.

Maybe get a third opinion from a doctor who is not strictly against opioids, and talk it through with them. Your doctor may be very good, but they are not being impartial here. It's important to view the puzzle from above, can't have personal feelings in the way.
I'm not in the least against opioids. I just said dependence is a concern bc in my experience whether or not addiction is a problem , the quick building tolerance to opioids can make their use for chronic pain tricky without tolerance breaks or other things that help with tolerance ,like low dose naltrexone or nmda antagonists. But if my doctor prescribed opioids tomorrow, would I still take them knowing that? 100 percent yes. I've been trying to get doctors to prescribe opioids , without asking for them directly, for years really, just by saying I need something to treat my pain.

And the doctor who prescribe my ketamine isnt necessarily against opioids although so many pain docs are (including a doctor that did an interventional procedure for my neck ); she just doesn't want to get her license taken away by the dea,, which is reasonable, I've seen it happen to compassionate doctors. And if I was going to see a pain doctor during covid my guess is it would take weeks at the very least to get an appointment, probably months. What do I do until then? Destroy my bladder with ketamine ? Go to emergency rooms and beg? Self medicate? Or just my main plan b which was to go to Switzerland for euthanasia.
 
@copium7777,
I’m so sorry you’re experiencing so much pain. I’m a lifetime sufferer of kidney stones so I sympathize with you.

I believe there are options, besides K, that will effectively manage, or at worst, offer you a reduction in your pain. I think arranging an appointment with a pain management specialist is an absolute must at this point.

Don’t worry about saying the wrong thing that could get the doctor in trouble with the DEA. He/She chose this specialty and believe me when I say, you can get high doses of daily opiates prescribed to you, if your doctor believes your quality/activities of life are being compromised by your pain.

Doctors, providing they’re pragmatic and effective in documenting your complaints and understanding your needs for pain management, should be able to get your pain level reduced significantly.

When one’s pain is at such a point that death is viewed as a viable option and single guarantee of the end of physical pain, it’s time to make pain management pursuits your life’s number one priority.

Life can get better, and there are doctors who can, and are willing to help you get your pain into a manageable range. In some cases, the degree of relief you experience might allow you to resume some of the regular activities you used to enjoy but discontinued due to your pain.

My thoughts and prayers are with you!
 
Ok, so I’ve read over what has been said since and I’ve a few thoughts.

When it comes to hEDS there really is a lot of joint involvement. To not have any hyper mobility in joints like shoulder, knees, elbows is a bit of a query for me.

Geneticists do indeed diagnose EDS because they test for the other types and diagnose by elimination.

hEDS is pretty easy to diagnose when looking at the whole patient history. For example, clumsiness as a child, previous hernias, hiatial hernia, easy bruising, orthostatic hypotension, hypermobility, dislocation, subluxion, POTS, MCAS, psoriasis, gastroparesis, bladder issues like stress or urgency incontinence, intestinal dysmotillty, prolapse is very common. I suffer from nearly all of the above. I also have family members with EDS and that is part of the diagnostic criteria although it can be a mutation.

Marfan syndrome is easy to test for as it has a genetic marker.

I think you need to push your dr for a diagnosis of what is going on with you. You’ve had Lyme disease and I wonder if you issues are not more connected to it. From memory neck pain is common in Lyme disease and you could have had previous issues with your neck you didn’t know about? How did they treat it?

What are they doing to treat your neck is my next question? Surely you should have a collar on for a start? Instability is nothing to mess around with and when talking about compression then it really can’t just be left as is.

Again, I think pushing your Dr for a proper diagnosis and mentioning about getting proper pain meds is important. The ketamine shouldn’t be used. It honestly is super easy to control opioid meds for patients if the dr wants to take the time to write out a plan for use and how to manage tolerance and the pharmacy have the means to dispense weekly for instance. There’s no feasible reason you’re not getting proper pain meds for a clearly painful issue.
 
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