Chronic LSD Psychosis?

[GoddessLSD-XTC]

How about LSD "enlightenment" or cure 4 alcoholism. . . wonder if LSD does more good than harm?!

 

[swilow]

^Exactly. If LSD can change your life positively in an unquanitfiable way, then surely it can also do the opposite. If I didn't believe it could be positive I wouldn't do it....but I also know that all positives have their inverted form.

 

[emjay]

I don't see why some people can't come to grips with the idea that it can bring latent problems to the surface. LSD, and to a lesser extent, cannabis, are both quite introspective drugs. With LSD you often have no choice but to look into the darkest corners of your mind. Most people are able to get something good out of the experience, but is it really that big of a surprise that people don't always bring back what they intended?

In many ways, the psychedelic experience identical to solitary confinement, with nothing but your mind to keep you company. This is why a trip-sitter is always advisable - to keep you grounded, to keep you from going deeper than you should. It's unbelievable to me that people who have done LSD on many occasions, who should be intimately familiar with LSD's tendency to magnify the psyche, refuse to believe that not everybody leaves the experience unscathed. Trippers with everyday anxiety problems know what a slippery slope it can be.

What LSD does NOT do is outright cause these problems. Even the worst of trips is really just an amplification of what's going on inside your own head. And it's unlikely that most people will be unable to avoid every potential trigger in life, but being pushed as far back into your head as possible within a matter of hours cannot be the most gentle way to do it.

Again, I absolutely adore LSD. It's the only drug I can honestly say I'm better off for having done. And in fact, it's the very fact that it DOES make you face your problems head on that makes it so valuable. It's only after my entire existence turned into nothing but panic and fear that I've been able to seriously evaluate the roots of my real problems. Unfortunately, some people are barely hanging by a thread BEFORE a psychedelic experience, and in my opinion it's beyond ridiculous to assume that everyone will come out untouched.

 

[Ismene]

I don't see why some people can't come to grips with the idea that it can bring latent problems to the surface.

You'd think there would be at least some change in the figures tho. Unless we're claiming that despite the fact that countless millions of people are now using LSD and cannabis only the same (or less) people develop psychosis than they did 100 years ago. Even the governments own advisors are unconvinced - and you sure as hell don't need much evidence to convince the government to demonise drugs.

If LSD/Cannabis are such powerful triggers for psychosis the figures are going to have gone up. Unless we go with this ridiculous and completely baseless theory that "Well, it doesn't cause it but it brings it out 4 days before you would have gone psychotic anyway". That's just silly.

What LSD does NOT do is outright cause these problems.

So the problem could really have been caused by getting out of bed that morning, having an argument with your parents, not having any milk for your cornflakes etc on the day you took LSD.

refuse to believe that not everybody leaves the experience unscathed

I think there's a misunderstanding here. As I've said a bad trip can cause you to be very upset and depressed, but being very upset and depressed is not the same as being psychotic.

 

[emjay]

If LSD/Cannabis are such powerful triggers for psychosis the figures are going to have gone up. Unless we go with this ridiculous and completely baseless theory that "Well, it doesn't cause it but it brings it out 4 days before you would have gone psychotic anyway". That's just silly.

is in direct contradiction to this:

So the problem could really have been caused by getting out of bed that morning, having an argument with your parents, not having any milk for your cornflakes etc on the day you took LSD.

I thought you just said this was ridiculous? Perhaps you're just unfamiliar with the idea of latent psychosis, I don't know. It's actually a bit of a misnomer, as it doesn't actually suggest that problems are entirely dormant, but rather that they're kept in check enough so that they don't significantly impair one's life, and often elude diagnosis until the problems get worse.

However, yes, an argument with your parents can also exacerbate a condition. It's nearly impossible to avoid mental and emotional "triggers" throughout the course of a year, let alone one's life, so I wouldn't expect the figures to change at all. However, these figures do NOT (and simply cannot) account for things such as the rate of onset and severity of the problem. Generally, any sort of trigger is limited by what we experience. LSD on its own is not a trigger at all, but it can turn otherwise mundane experiences into very mentally and emotionally intense experiences. And it can often turn what are normally strong experiences into a complete and utter existential crisis. If this doesn't spell it out for you, I don't know what will.

 

[Ismene]

is in direct contradiction to this:

It isn't in direct contradiction to it at all, you misunderstand the point. I'm saying people who have never taken LSD become psychotic. So what's the "trigger" in those cases? Getting out of bed?

It's nearly impossible to avoid mental and emotional "triggers" throughout the course of a year, let alone one's life, so I wouldn't expect the figures to change at all

You're missing the obvious point - that it's usually young people smoking cannabis and taking LSD - so the rates of psychosis among the young should have exploded over the last 40 years if LSD/Cannabis are "triggering" psychosis earlier than they were being triggered 100 years ago.

And it can often turn what are normally strong experiences into a complete and utter existential crisis. If this doesn't spell it out for you, I don't know what will.

Complete and utter existensial crisis do not make you psychotic. I think we can all agree that being raped and beaten are "slightly" more unpleasant than a bad trip, but very few victims of rape become psychotic. You're confusing an unpleasant experience with becoming psychotic.

 

[emjay]

It isn't in direct contradiction to it at all, you misunderstand the point. I'm saying people who have never taken LSD become psychotic. So what's the "trigger" in those cases? Getting out of bed?

I've written it in as many ways as possible, it seems like you're being deliberately difficult. Any strong emotional experience has the potential exacerbate a psychotic condition. Getting out of bed doesn't USUALLY qualify, but people go through depressing and frustrating experiences all the time.

You're missing the obvious point - that it's usually young people smoking cannabis and taking LSD - so the rates of psychosis among the young should have exploded over the last 40 years if LSD/Cannabis are "triggering" psychosis earlier than they were being triggered 100 years ago.

Why would the rates explode? You are aware that psychotic conditions like schizophrenia typically appear in people in their early 20's, regardless of drug use, right? On top of that, people with mental problems - both latent and apparent - are generally much more prone to drug abuse in the first place. The point is, there is such a great deal of overlap that there is no reason it should have such a large impact on the average age of onset.

Complete and utter existensial crisis do not make you psychotic. I think we can all agree that being raped and beaten are "slightly" more unpleasant than a bad trip, but very few victims of rape become psychotic. You're confusing an unpleasant experience with becoming psychotic.

No, I'm not. A bad trip is, like being raped and beaten, not going to MAKE anybody become psychotic. I have no idea how you even get the impression that this is what I'm implying. But, like being raped and beaten, a bad trip has the potential to catapult somebody who is already teetering on the brink into full blown psychosis. It just happens to be rare because psychosis itself is also quite rare.

This is the last time I'm going to type this, because you seem to keep putting words into my mouth, but LSD does NOT cause psychosis. Like any emotionally intense or traumatic event, it has the potential to exacerbate a pre-existing condition. This means that the vast majority of people are not even at a slight risk for this; the uncertainty only arises because people generally don't seek a diagnosis until their condition worsens.

Just to be clear - as many people seem to have a misconception - psychosis is not necessarily characterized by wild or violent behavior, but rather implies that someone has become disconnected from reality.

 

[Buckey]

Can someone clarify this honestly for me. If I take LSD maybe 2-3 months after the previous time, is it bad for my brain?

 

[Ismene]

Why would the rates explode? You are aware that psychotic conditions like schizophrenia typically appear in people in their early 20's, regardless of drug use, right?

That's not what people have been saying in the thread tho - they've been claiming LSD use makes your schizophrenia appear earlier than it otherwise would have done. If that's true there would have been an explosion in cases in people in their late teens.

a bad trip has the potential to catapult somebody who is already teetering on the brink into full blown psychosis

Again, if this was true then the rates of people becoming psychotic would have exploded over the last 40 years. It's common sense - if you introduce a brand new factor into society that can catapult people into psychosis you are going to see an increase in the numbers of people becoming psychotic.

 

[GoddessLSD-XTC]

Was looking 4 a world population growth graph and found this:

http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/lsd/lsd_survey1.shtml

 

[VerbalTruist]

How many people were in the sample? Who did they sample? That statistic could be very off.

Then again I'm usually weary when someone cites a graph or an average. I could skew almost statistic in my favor if you gave me the chance.

But yeah LSD! Fuck yeah!

 

[GoddessLSD-XTC]

^^^ 123559, I added a link to the report with the survey, above.
http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/lsd/lsd_survey1.shtml
This figure eliminated several thousand responsed deemed "spam." I also remember taking one of their surveys 4 this.

Also, check out their LSD Vault:
http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/lsd/

LSD is a miracle drug!

 

[Spec87]

I had a friend who is psychotic, it started since he was 14, around the time he started using cocaine. It got a bit worse around the time he was 17, when he started smoking weed way too much. He got admitted into a mental hospital after trying to commit suicide. Two days after his first and only acid trip.

I'm not saying there is a correlation, but i would advise anyone to try psychedelics if you are afraid your brains might be prone to mental illness.

Btw, he is quite ok now, has medicines and only goes to visit the metal institution 3 times a week for 2 hours a day. Too bad he still drinks too much.

 

[stillmind]

How many people were in the sample? Who did they sample? That statistic could be very off.

Good point; it was a sample of Erowid users, which common sense says would drastically skew the data toward the positive end. It stands to reason that those who've had negative experiences are more likely to avoid LSD and psychedelics in general, and hence less likely to visit Erowid.

I think LSD has great healing potential, but I feel this survey is basically worthless.

 

[queenbee1127]

I had a friend who took some doses at a String Cheese show a few summers ago and was never the same after. He tripped for days and was finally admitted to a mental ward so they could keep an eye on him. Once he stopped tripping (supposedly) and they released him, he started carrying a messenger bag and a notebook around with him so he could record observations and talked incessantly about making a trip to Canada to "find his soul". We later found out that he had a family history of schizophrenia which is probably what caused it. To this day he is a little left of center.

 

[Ismene]

Maybe it was seeing String Cheese that blew his mind.

 

[GoddessLSD-XTC]

I schizophrenics, they're the one's who don't fit into $ociety 'cause "civilisation" is f*cked up. LSD makes U aware of how f*cked up $ociety is. (Tune in, turn on, DROP OUT!) Peace & too

 

[emerald07]

Yes, I can point to a very good example of someone who became psychotic after a very strong trip. I know this isn't exactly what you're looking for as it was shrooms not lsd, but the basic trip effect is the same. To be honest, I'm not sure, well I am sure in fact, that I'm not back to normal or if I ever will be. But I haven't changed so much for the worse like this person who is currently trying to goad me into emailing him (like asking for my paypal account so he can pay me the £52 he owes) , just so he can write back some of the nastiest abusive comments I've ever been on the receiving end of, and finish by complaining loudly that I won't leave him alone.

I know this probably isn't the sort of thing you're looking for, but it's a very definite proven example of how a strong trip (be it acid or shrooms) turned someone from being a pleasant, polite and very helpful friend into someone full of hate and aggression and unable to form a sentence without the F word in it. It's very unexpected and I'm not sure if it's permanent or just going to last a few months, but I'm not sticking around to find out.

 

[dyslecstasy]

There's a notorious 'acid head' around my area, who was given it when he was a toddler (2-3 years old) by his older brother. Then when he was around 18-19 he ate a CD case worth of acid all in one go while being cheered on by his friends. Now he is mentally screwed up, about a year ago he thought he was blind for a whole month and thought mey friend was bob dylan. He has been tested and officialy had HPPD and scitzophernia (sp?)

lolmey

 

[Ismene]

Thinking someone is bob dylan sounds more like schizophrenia than LSD tho. I think he would have been exactly the same if he'd never taken LSD.