GreatSpaceCoaster
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One of my 20 best films ever. Standard!
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Film & TV Moderators: ghostfreak
Film Chinatown (1974)
- Thread starter L2R
- Start date
Pander Bear
Bluelight Crew
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- Jun 29, 2001
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- 16,750
ya, greed, followed by shame
Benefit
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Sep 11, 2002
- Messages
- 5,193
The character of Noah Cross is ranked by the American Film Institute as the 16th best film villain of all time but I don't know that he belongs on that list. Noah Cross is a perverse, power-hungry capitalist titan and John Huston plays the part to perfection; no melodramatic overacting or hamming it up for the camera. You get a sense that he is disturbed and somewhat crazed, but he is also driven by the greatness of his vision.
If you see the sprawling megalopolis that Los Angeles is today, you will better understand this character. Many of Noah Cross' lines, like "Hollis Mulwray made this city" and "The future, Mr. Gitts, the future" (spoken with a demented intensity) resonate with a certain amount of relevance today. People like William Mulholland (the real-life head of DWP in the early 1900s and the inspiration for Mulwray and Cross in the film) did build the world as we know it. There are visionaries in all epochs who will pursue their vision with a singular tenacity. They cannot be domesticated by societal conventions or the will of other men. Napoleon was such a person; so was Alexander the Great, Winston Churchill, General Patton, Julius Caesar and many other historical figures who have helped shape and reshape the tapestry of our world over the decades, centuries and millennia. Noah Cross is such a character. His motivation is therefore not evil. He is merely obsessed with the vastness of his dream, which drives him to murder, lie, cheat, steal and commit innumerable other moral offenses.
The twist to the character is his perverse sexual proclivities which are ingeniously shrouded in ambiguity by Robert Towne. No explanation is ever given. When Gittes asks Evelyn if her father raped her, she starts to shake her head then stops in that peculiarly neurotic way she does everything. We never find out why he really wants Katherine back (L2R's theory is outlandishly silly and goes against the grain of the film). The act he commits is so taboo and morally foul that we condemn him for it, are disgusted and repulsed by the baseness and depravity of such a character.
The explanation he offers leaves the issue open-ended. "Mr. Gitts, most people never have to face the fact that, at the right time and the right place, they're capable of... anything!" Disgusting as his offense is, the statement does get at a fundamental human truth. Human beings are indeed capable of anything, given the right circumstances. Even incest.
If you see the sprawling megalopolis that Los Angeles is today, you will better understand this character. Many of Noah Cross' lines, like "Hollis Mulwray made this city" and "The future, Mr. Gitts, the future" (spoken with a demented intensity) resonate with a certain amount of relevance today. People like William Mulholland (the real-life head of DWP in the early 1900s and the inspiration for Mulwray and Cross in the film) did build the world as we know it. There are visionaries in all epochs who will pursue their vision with a singular tenacity. They cannot be domesticated by societal conventions or the will of other men. Napoleon was such a person; so was Alexander the Great, Winston Churchill, General Patton, Julius Caesar and many other historical figures who have helped shape and reshape the tapestry of our world over the decades, centuries and millennia. Noah Cross is such a character. His motivation is therefore not evil. He is merely obsessed with the vastness of his dream, which drives him to murder, lie, cheat, steal and commit innumerable other moral offenses.
The twist to the character is his perverse sexual proclivities which are ingeniously shrouded in ambiguity by Robert Towne. No explanation is ever given. When Gittes asks Evelyn if her father raped her, she starts to shake her head then stops in that peculiarly neurotic way she does everything. We never find out why he really wants Katherine back (L2R's theory is outlandishly silly and goes against the grain of the film). The act he commits is so taboo and morally foul that we condemn him for it, are disgusted and repulsed by the baseness and depravity of such a character.
The explanation he offers leaves the issue open-ended. "Mr. Gitts, most people never have to face the fact that, at the right time and the right place, they're capable of... anything!" Disgusting as his offense is, the statement does get at a fundamental human truth. Human beings are indeed capable of anything, given the right circumstances. Even incest.
Benefit
Bluelighter
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- Sep 11, 2002
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- 5,193
This movie is so good. It is the benchmark for the neo-noir revival of the 1970s and showcases pitch perfect filmmaking in all aspects. The hard-boiled detective archetype and complex crime solving narrative may have reached their apex with this movie. Jack Nicholson is perfect; he looks and acts the part so naturally. Using John Huston as the principal antagonist is also a wonderful tip of the hat to the film's noir roots; Huston directed The Maltese Falcon, a classic example of noir filmmaking.
As I said earlier, the film immerses you totally in the 1930s. What Barry Lyndon is for Baroque Europe, this film is for 1930s Los Angeles. I particularly liked the costuming; Jake Gittes has some very sharp suits. From an atmospheric perspective, the film pulls you into the politics of the burgeoning LA Basin and doesn't let you out. You feel like you are in 1930s Los Angeles when it was still a boomtown, still building itself up into the monstrous cultural and economic giant that it is today, when the urban planners were kicking around ideas for building basic infrastructure.
And from that setting the story flows gracefully. The narrative is complex, it's ambiguous, it's compelling, romantic, morbid, tragic, witty; it's everything you want in a narrative. I also like how the audience isn't spoon-fed; we uncover the twists and turns along with Jake. There is some great dialogue, timeless lines delivered by memorable characters. The tone and pacing is right on the money. But most impressive is the way it renders the period and makes it real. I was very impressed.
Polanski's best? I don't know... The Pianist was pretty good.
As I said earlier, the film immerses you totally in the 1930s. What Barry Lyndon is for Baroque Europe, this film is for 1930s Los Angeles. I particularly liked the costuming; Jake Gittes has some very sharp suits. From an atmospheric perspective, the film pulls you into the politics of the burgeoning LA Basin and doesn't let you out. You feel like you are in 1930s Los Angeles when it was still a boomtown, still building itself up into the monstrous cultural and economic giant that it is today, when the urban planners were kicking around ideas for building basic infrastructure.
And from that setting the story flows gracefully. The narrative is complex, it's ambiguous, it's compelling, romantic, morbid, tragic, witty; it's everything you want in a narrative. I also like how the audience isn't spoon-fed; we uncover the twists and turns along with Jake. There is some great dialogue, timeless lines delivered by memorable characters. The tone and pacing is right on the money. But most impressive is the way it renders the period and makes it real. I was very impressed.
Polanski's best? I don't know... The Pianist was pretty good.
Care
Bluelight Crew
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One of my favorite movies of all time. Keeps you interested from start to finish, excellent acting by Nicholson, his best movie IMO. The villain is also good, his facial expressions and dialogue with the protagonist are classic.
And of course, Roman Polanski.
One of the few movies I can find no fault in .
And of course, Roman Polanski.
One of the few movies I can find no fault in .
Old thread but whatever 
Just re-watched it for probably the 6th time last night. This is, without a doubt one, of the best movies ever made!
I like Benefit's take on the film. I've never looked at Noah Cross like that before. It gives me yet another reason to see the film again!
As for L2R's analysis of Noah Cross' intention on his granddaughter/daughter. I dunno man. He seemed to genuinely care for her IMO. Although I gotta say, the moment when Noah covers Katherine's eyes I feel a sick sense of despair in the pit of my stomach. Like she will disappear forever into some deep pit where she will never be seen again. But his intentions are so mysterious it is anybodies guess IMO. I don't think so personally, to me it seems more likely that he does care for her but also doesn't want the product of his incestuous relationship out there for the world to see.
Also I am curious what you guys think about Evelyn and Noah's relationship. Do you think that Evelyn was raped? She kind of avoids the question in such a weird way, it made it seem that she consented but is ashamed of admitting it. Like Benefit pointed out, she shakes her head and then stops in that weird way she does when she is trying to avoid the truth. Something she also does at the fancy restaurant scene where Gittes is questioning her. Every time Gittes gets near the truth she does it. There is also the scene after Gittes and Evelyn have sex. When Gittes tells her about his work in Chinatown, Evelyn asks about a woman. Gittes talks about trying to make sure she didn't get hurt, only to make sure that she did get hurt. After that Evelyn smiles and says Cherchez la Femme so knowingly, almost in a "I've been there done that" sort of way. Makes me wonder.
All that said I LOVE noir and neo-noir. I loved The Maltese Falcon and LA Confidential. Hard boiled detectives, femme fatales, love it all.
Just re-watched it for probably the 6th time last night. This is, without a doubt one, of the best movies ever made!
I like Benefit's take on the film. I've never looked at Noah Cross like that before. It gives me yet another reason to see the film again!
As for L2R's analysis of Noah Cross' intention on his granddaughter/daughter. I dunno man. He seemed to genuinely care for her IMO. Although I gotta say, the moment when Noah covers Katherine's eyes I feel a sick sense of despair in the pit of my stomach. Like she will disappear forever into some deep pit where she will never be seen again. But his intentions are so mysterious it is anybodies guess IMO. I don't think so personally, to me it seems more likely that he does care for her but also doesn't want the product of his incestuous relationship out there for the world to see.
Also I am curious what you guys think about Evelyn and Noah's relationship. Do you think that Evelyn was raped? She kind of avoids the question in such a weird way, it made it seem that she consented but is ashamed of admitting it. Like Benefit pointed out, she shakes her head and then stops in that weird way she does when she is trying to avoid the truth. Something she also does at the fancy restaurant scene where Gittes is questioning her. Every time Gittes gets near the truth she does it. There is also the scene after Gittes and Evelyn have sex. When Gittes tells her about his work in Chinatown, Evelyn asks about a woman. Gittes talks about trying to make sure she didn't get hurt, only to make sure that she did get hurt. After that Evelyn smiles and says Cherchez la Femme so knowingly, almost in a "I've been there done that" sort of way. Makes me wonder.
All that said I LOVE noir and neo-noir. I loved The Maltese Falcon and LA Confidential. Hard boiled detectives, femme fatales, love it all.
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