Global Politics China Discussion

[Meth novice 79]

In short: people need to get out of the echo chamber, and submit all of these reports to actual fact checking, by people with diverse backgrounds, and that don't have obvious ties to the US and UK government. We shouldn't want Bluelight to be part of the echo chamber, which it has been on many topics and I'll 'fight' against it as long as I'm on this forum.

Right? For heaven’s sake people it’s 2020, you have access to media from all over the world.
Take a 5 minute look at the news of any country not an ally of the West, see things from a new perspective.
I used to love reading Russian state controlled sources, found them to be the exact mirror almost of our sources.
‘those shady American blood thirsty phol

Yeah. Instead of throwing bombs China went the route of offering humanitarian help and establishing trade agreements in the Middle East instead of throwing bombs and sanctions around like it’s nothing. Are their motives dodgy? For sure.
But note that this is being regarded as evil, and literally destroying countries and their people is being excused as questionable motives. Nothing is preventing the US from sitting around a table and try to catch up economically but they’re still stuck in the 80s.

Totally agree. Even more ironic is that those sitting around going on about mind control l and censorship from evil China don’t seem to realise that they’re actually just parroting the same propaganda in reverse from their own countries ‘mind control’ programs.

 

[Buzz Lightbeer]

Totally agree. Even more ironic is that those sitting around going on about mind control l and censorship from evil China don’t seem to realise that they’re actually just parroting the same propaganda in reverse from their own countries ‘mind control’ programs.

Exactly. What's even more funny is that the same people will go on and on about 'disinformation' but that apparently only applies to QAnon lovers. I've talked and complained a lot about this in this subforum, but people don't want to recognize that they're being brainwashed, it's the ultimate hit to the artificial feel of moral superiority.

 

[Meth novice 79]

Exactly. What's even more funny is that the same people will go on and on about 'disinformation' but that apparently only applies to QAnon lovers. I've talked and complained a lot about this in this subforum, but people don't want to recognize that they're being brainwashed, it's the ultimate hit to the artificial feel of moral superiority.

Well we all know from Germany just how effective propaganda is so it shouldn’t surprise you.
I LOVED watching interviews with world leaders who aren’t ally’s to the west.
Opened my eyes to a lot.
Assad from Syria, Putin and even Gadaffi.
They’re damn good at what they’re selling, much stronger and more confident than our own leaders.
You truly start to believe in them.
Unlike ours lol

 

[Foreigner]

Yeah. Instead of throwing bombs China went the route of offering humanitarian help and establishing trade agreements in the Middle East instead of throwing bombs and sanctions around like it’s nothing. Are their motives dodgy? For sure.
But note that this is being regarded as evil, and literally destroying countries and their people is being excused as questionable motives. Nothing is preventing the US from sitting around a table and try to catch up economically but they’re still stuck in the 80s.

China's Belt and Road initiative is forming alliances with countries that the west won't because they have horrible humanitarian records. China is basically accessing tonnes of hidden markets valued at trillions of dollars because they won't play by our humanitarian rules. And that unfortunately is why they are winning.

The U.S. should go to war with China sooner than later, and I'm usually an anti-war type person. The Chinese government is a real global threat. They will set back the human rights record around the world by decades if not centuries, and they have vengeance in their hearts against the west for what we did to them in the pre-communist period.

 

[Bella Figura]

For heaven’s sake people it’s 2020

Check your calendar

 

[Buzz Lightbeer]

they won't play by our humanitarian rules

Sorry I fell in a fit of laughter after reading this, almost threw my back out.

The U.S. should go to war with China sooner than later, and I'm usually an anti-war type person.

Go into politics, they're all anti war.

Syria, Yemen, Ukraine, Venezuela, Iran etc....

China's Belt and Road initiative is forming alliances with countries that the west won't because they have horrible humanitarian records.

The US is allies with some of the biggest human rights offenders in the world. I will also guarantee you that the US doesn't give a FUCK about countries human rights record. Countries ally with China because it makes sense to them, they might live close by, China has been good to them, or the US has been the opposite of good to them.

China is basically accessing tonnes of hidden markets valued at trillions of dollars because they won't play by our humanitarian rules. And that unfortunately is why they are winning.

My guess is that China has a large population, a government that works faster and more efficiently than that of the US, and they actively invest in their own people. I'm guessing most have missed the announcement that China supposedly has eradicated "extreme poverty". They just buy everything, are sneaky about it, and appear friendly and well intended. As opposed to the US and NATO that have a long history of strong arming and bullying their way to things, as well as having a history of multiple catastrophic geopolitical failures. Technologically China is far ahead, and the economic center of the world is moving to Asia.
And your solution is a war.

 

[Cheshire_Kat]

I'm wondering if you've actually experienced life as a citizen in China, Buzz.

I haven't, however I have quite a few friends who actually were Chinese citizens and they have quite a different opinion than yours. I can actually remember when we thought that placating an expansionist and repressive Government would result in peace. That country was Nazi Germany and the entire world desperately trying to avoid that war.

It didn't work then, and probably won't work now.

I'm wishing the world luck

 

[Buzz Lightbeer]

I'm wondering if you've actually experienced life as a citizen in China, Buzz.

I haven't, however I have quite a few friends who actually were Chinese citizens and they have quite a different opinion than yours. I can actually remember when we thought that placating an expansionist and repressive Government would result in peace. That country was Nazi Germany and the entire world desperately trying to avoid that war.

It didn't work then, and probably won't work now.

I'm wishing the world luck

I haven't, no intention to. But you're making one key mistake in your train of thought, and that is that it's not China being particularly aggressive against the rest of the world, yes they want to increase their sphere of influence like any major power has always done, now they have to do it somewhat more aggressively since the US is trying to steal everyone around them.
So if you want to continue the comparison, which I don't think is particularly applicable either way, it would be the US and NATO equating nazi Germany. Am I wrong? China isn't the one actively waging endless wars, can you give me some examples of their so called extreme expansionist behavior that isn't due to force? They want to get rich and powerful yes, but so does the US, it's the way of doing things, they have zero interest in large scale military conquest. Advocating for a useless war, that would have millions of casualties, have a major impact on the world economy (everyone poorer) and would have ramifications for many decades with nothing that can be realistically be gained. In my opinion that is peak stupidity.

I'm not saying I love China, never did, I'm just trying to poke holes through the hysteria, like I always do in this subforum. And yes, I'm annoyed. It's not about placating a foreign government, it's about focusing on the right issues (technology, economy) and not fall into all the same traps as mere citizens. Where am I saying that it isn't a authoritarian regime? Of course they're bad, it's China ffs, but we at least need to keep our head stable while all this aggression is ramping up and we're being bombarded with china bad 24/7. Once even the people are convinced that war is the only way we're so fucked. It's all easy for you to say since you're like 80

 

[Foreigner]

Sorry I fell in a fit of laughter after reading this, almost threw my back out.

Go into politics, they're all anti war.

Syria, Yemen, Ukraine, Venezuela, Iran etc.... I'm guessing nothing at all.

The US is allies with some of the biggest human rights offenders in the world. I will also guarantee you that the US doesn't give a FUCK about countries human rights record. Countries ally with China because it makes sense to them, they might live close by, China has been good to them, or the US has been the opposite of good to them.

My guess is that China has a large population, a government that works faster and more efficiently than that of the US, and they actively invest in their own people. I'm guessing most have missed the announcement that China supposedly has eradicated "extreme poverty". They just buy everything, are sneaky about it, and appear friendly and well intended. As opposed to the US and NATO that have a long history of strong arming and bullying their way to things, as well as having a history of multiple catastrophic geopolitical failures. Technologically China is far ahead, and the economic center of the world is moving to Asia.
And your solution is a war.

I won't reciprocate disrespect.

I speak Mandarin, my undergrad was international relations with China as my specialty. I lived in China for two years. Later, I studied Traditional Chinese Medicine and became a Doctor of TCM. I have been steeped in their old and new culture for most my adult life, along with their history, politics, and social issues. I have friends all over China. My adoptive family is in China.

 

[Cheshire_Kat]

Quote from "Buzz Lightber"

I'm not saying I love China, never did, I'm just trying to poke holes through the hysteria, like I always do in this subforum. And yes, I'm annoyed. It's not about placating a foreign government, it's about focusing on the right issues (technology, economy) and not fall into all the same traps as mere citizens. Where am I saying that it isn't a authoritarian regime? Of course they're bad, it's China ffs, but we at least need to keep our head stable while all this aggression is ramping up and we're being bombarded with china bad 24/7. Once even the people are convinced that war is the only way we're so fucked. It's all easy for you to say since you're like 80

Actually I DO love China, just not the PRoC.

War is, unfortunately, hard wired into the human psyche. We didn't suddenly evolve after WWII.

I hope I'm wrong. We'll see, won't we.

 

[Buzz Lightbeer]

You're so hostile and offensive that I have no real interest in spending time responding to you. I won't reciprocate disrespect.

I speak Mandarin, my undergrad was international relations with China as my specialty. I lived in China for two years. Later, I studied Traditional Chinese Medicine and became a Doctor of TCM. I have been steeped in their old and new culture for most my adult life, along with their history, politics, and social issues. I have friends all over China. My adoptive family is in China.

So take your stupid laughter, psychoanalysis of my "delusions", and your righteous superiority, and shove off.

Man, first of all, we're talking about the US.

China's Belt and Road initiative is forming alliances with countries that the west won't because they have horrible humanitarian records.

I say this is wrong, and can easily give many examples.

China is basically accessing tonnes of hidden markets valued at trillions of dollars because they won't play by our humanitarian rules. And that unfortunately is why they are winning.

We don't have particular humanitarian rules that we should be proud of.
Then I say why China is winning, with obvious arguments. So your supposed knowledge about China is fairly unrelated in our discussion. Maybe you could've brought something to the Xinjiang discussion? But you chose not to, and instead descended into easily disprovable clichés and advocated for a full on war.

You have to realize that you are actively advocating for millions to die from the comfort of your couch. How can people be like that? I will never understand.

 

[Buzz Lightbeer]

Actually I DO love China, just not the PRoC.

War is, unfortunately, hard wired into the human psyche. We didn't suddenly evolve after WWII.

I hope I'm wrong. We'll see, won't we.

Yes you hope you're wrong, many don't hope that. If we want to be a forum where people can say that the US should go to war with a super power and people nod "yeah yeah great man, you're a top dude" go ahead, I go hard in on that, despite the offensiveness there's at least some human decency. I believe he should be able to say that, but it doesn't make it excusable. It's even funnier since his family lives there, likely doesn't care if they die by nuclear bomb, all for freedom.

I'm annoying to argue with, especially when I'm in full hypomanic swing and feeling 150% amazing, but good discussions can be had around this, and in that respect I shouldn't have dissuaded anyone from partaking. In that respect I regret my actions, but don't forget earlier posts that are basis enough for discussion. And as I also said, I'm not infallible and I love to learn, but I'm always gonna be mad as fuck when people even dare to suggest killing millions is a perfectly viable option.

I'm out, I'll leave the rest to the rest.

 

[Cheshire_Kat]

For what it's worth Buzz, I never said it was the preferred outcome. I emphasized that it would likely become the most likely outcome. Not because of the US posture, but because this has happened over and over in the history of the world.
My "generation" tried desperately to change that, but the world changed us...

It's up to your generation now. Choose wisely.

 

[Buzz Lightbeer]

I know Chessire, I recognize the difference between that and actually wanting it. Maybe it is where we're headed but I'll oppose it every day.

As for dodgy US alliances, I say Israel, Saudi Arabia and the Phillipenes, to boot... But now I'm really gone. Not helping my image which is key to a succesful life on a forum.

 

[Burnt Offerings]

The parallel of Hitler and the interwar period is a common theme in such discussions. American readers may remember it from the 2002-2003 lead-up to the Iraq War, when American journalists reminded everyone that Saddam Hussein was a "bad dude" (and wouldn't it have been better to stop bad dudes like Hussein or Hitler while you still could?), and the perils of placating a belligerent foreign power It really is an evergreen reference...

A conflict between the USA and the PRC would obviously be much more consequential than a conflict with Iraq, though, so hopefully cooler heads prevail.

 

[Meth novice 79]

Check your calendar
Fuck

 

[Buzz Lightbeer]

The Xinjiang Genocide Allegations Are Unjustified | by Jeffrey D. Sachs & William Schabas - Project Syndicate

Jeffrey D. Sachs & William Schabas urge the US to withdraw a grave and unsubstantiated charge leveled at the end of the Trump administration.

www.project-syndicate.org

UN experts are rightly calling for the UN to investigate the situation in Xinjiang. China’s government, for its part, has recently stated that it would welcome a UN mission to Xinjiang based on “exchanges and cooperation,” not on “guilty before proven.”

Unless the State Department can substantiate the genocide accusation, it should withdraw the charge. It should also support a UN-led investigation of the situation in Xinjiang. The work of the UN, and notably of UN Human Rights Special Rapporteurs, is essential to promote the letter and spirit of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.