CEPS Well Hung Parliament (CEPS Social/Off Topic)

[Jabberwocky]

'similar' circuits (sorry, this is BL ;p )
and it sucks because some drugs are legit 'cheats' to shortcut those happiness circuits in a way that isn't very likely to harm a life in any sense while others have incredibly high probability (even the ones that most agree 'destroy' a life, well...there's many happy baseheads out there and the overwhelming majority of a basehead's problems are results of WoD and the artificially jacked-up prices, not the compound itself, though I'll definiteliy cede that even if crack were free it's still nothing like mosts'/mine conception of 'happiness'. Most ppl find the idea of raw, pointless hedonism like that unfulfilling at best after some amounts of indulgence)

 

[Shrooms00087]

Sex, food, or other behaviors such as gambling, spending, computer use, etc.

Basically anything that gives the brain that "reward" function, in the absence of a strong ability to control that desire, can lead to addiction. Many people will never experience that and cannot understand such behavior, even to the point of denying an addiction is possible. But it's all the same behavior/reward circuits in the brain. Some people will destroy their lives for just a little temporary pleasure.

I would argue sex in a circular fashion where we would end up disagreeing. Impulse-control disorder. As well as eating disorder.

And my argument was if you knew you had a genetic disorder prone to addiction your responsibility then is --to not use drugs. Once you do "it becomes an illness, if anything".

*But like I said, I'm not against ethical treatment of drug users. Rather, throwing all other drugs into the marijuana issue which is gathering heat is suicide.

Not to speak for EW but think he just means all compulsive behaviors, like that underlying will power issue that's central to both drug addiction and gambling problems or overeating problems.
[edit/added: you could even go a step further and show how, for instance, certain shitty foods are self-reinforcing in a real biological, measurable sense, though obviously not nearly the 'monkey' drugs are in this regard. The rush from gambling doesn't physically reinforce itself in remotely the same primary ways that consumed things [food/drugs/etc] do]

I should have just quoted you from the beginning except my argument was central around addiction as such.

 

[23536]

Instead of news, MSNBC plays Lockup on weekend nights. The program is better than most of MSNBC's news shows.

 

[Shimmer.Fade]

If taken with a grain of salt MSNBC used to be decent like 10 years ago

Shrooms00087, I do not know whether the desire to take psychotropic substances can be damped any more than the desire for a man to have a sexual interaction with another man. I hope you realize the extremely close parallels of what you are saying about drug users with what was commonly said, and is still said today, about homosexuals?

 

[Shrooms00087]

If taken with a grain of salt MSNBC used to be decent like 10 years ago

Shrooms00087, I do not know whether the desire to take psychotropic substances can be damped any more than the desire for a man to have a sexual interaction with another man. I hope you realize the extremely close parallels of what you are saying about drug users with what was commonly said, and is still said today, about homosexuals?

Okay let me just give you a scenario. I'd like to demonstrate the absurdity in these "parellels":

I can say with 100% certainty that this child who will grow into an adult will deal with natural (natural to ones self) sexual desires. Fact.
I cannot say with 100% certainty that a child who will grow into an adult will deal with natural desires to do drugs.

It's not like one day you stop being a kid when you get a heroin boner...Homosexuality has nothing to do with this argument whatsoever.

One can be predisposed to issues of drug use (societal, economic, parental, etc) but this does not mean it constitutes itself as a genetic disorder. I mean maybe unless you're a crack baby?

 

[23536]

Nobody's paying attention to this Chinese plane that seems to have just vanished into thin air? Is such a thing really as unprecented as they're saying? No debris. No radar traces. No underwater pings. No terror claims. No distress calls. Just a quizzical silence. Like Oceanic 815.

 

[Bardeaux]

^Yeah, I've been telling people about this as well and they look at me like they haven't heard if it.

Bizarre. It was a Malaysian plane thought yeah? Or just a Chinese airline returning from Malaysia?

 

[Shimmer.Fade]

Okay let me just give you a scenario. I'd like to demonstrate the absurdity in these "parellels":

I can say with 100% certainty that this child who will grow into an adult will deal with natural (natural to ones self) sexual desires. Fact.
I cannot say with 100% certainty that a child who will grow into an adult will deal with natural desires to do drugs.

It's not like one day you stop being a kid when you get a heroin boner...Homosexuality has nothing to do with this argument whatsoever.

One can be predisposed to issues of drug use (societal, economic, parental, etc) but this does not mean it constitutes itself as a genetic disorder. I mean maybe unless you're a crack baby?

Are you familiar with the limbic system? Are you familiar with the way our neurological reward system functions? To call these parallels absurd is to completely discount our current medical knowledge. Anyhow, don't use 100% figures if you want to be taken seriously.

 

[Shrooms00087]

The reward system still plays absolutely a zero role here. Please name the gene that passes down, that makes someone a druggy. It cannot be done. (yet, blah, blah)

Focusing on the "100%" (even though it isn't ludicrous Asexuals even grow from innocents to conflict with their own sexual desires albeit none) is STILL missing the point which you do in each argument we have. So I figured I'd just tidy up my last statement and then let this go, before I continuously tidy up my posts to explain a simple argument more effectively.

 

[Jabberwocky]

^Yeah, I've been telling people about this as well and they look at me like they haven't heard if it.

Bizarre. It was a Malaysian plane thought yeah? Or just a Chinese airline returning from Malaysia?

This has been blowing my mind. Still no answer on this? WTF I thought these things were tracked, and the airspace monitored enough, that this type of thing going missing would be all but impossible!!

 

[23536]

This has been blowing my mind. Still no answer on this? WTF I thought these things were tracked, and the airspace monitored enough, that this type of thing going missing would be all but impossible!!

No, it's gotten stranger! The plane made a 160 degree turn, off course, and flew low for many miles (a hundred? Far longer than it could glide), then deactivated its transmitter.

Of course the corrupt MSM refuses to bring up extraterrestrials

I really really hope those people are alive.

 

[Jabberwocky]

WTF? damn that is crazy, I...i don't even know what to say/think/speculate right now, I mean if a plane w/ 2-300 passengers flew off-course, just for a second, I guess I just take it as granted that there'd be radars all over it, that it's comm would be tapped (if it wasn't from the get-go), etc etc

/Wild-conjecture alert: Last night i learned the details of this whole story from my mother and, after verifying she was right and it was legitly-"missing", immediately came to the tentative conclusion that surely ppl do know what/where it is, and it's just not been made public. I've got fuck-all as to the 'why', but I just find it close to incomprehensible that a large airliner could pull a disappearing act in this manner, in these times. I'd be googling this hard right now, if I wasn't close to 2days offline due to modem failure far, far too much to catch up on lol, this'll just go to the back-burner ;P

 

[Shimmer.Fade]

The reward system still plays absolutely a zero role here. Please name the gene that passes down, that makes someone a druggy. It cannot be done. (yet, blah, blah)

Learn to admit when you are wrong. The parallel was not between the genetics of addictions and homosexuality were you to have read closer. The parallel that I was drawing attention to was that of your rhetoric regarding drug users with certain rhetoric regarding homosexuals.

Now back to how you are wrong. You seem to accept that homosexuals have no choice because their genes make them gay. Well, without spending a shit load of time explaining to you the science behind it, here is an interesting little info page designed for lay people by the NIH concerning genetics and alcoholism

I think we can safely assume that 100% of the genetics towards alcoholism does not come through epigenetics, and with that assumption in the mind the main other option for a gene to be a certain way is to be born with it. With that in mind:

Research shows that genes are responsible for about half of the risk for alcoholism. Therefore, genes alone do not determine whether someone will become an alcoholic. Environmental factors, as well as gene and environment interactions account for the remainder of the risk.*

Multiple genes play a role in a person’s risk for developing alcoholism. There are genes that increase a person’s risk, as well as those that may decrease that risk, directly or indirectly. For instance, some people of Asian descent carry a gene variant that alters their rate of alcohol metabolism, causing them to have symptoms like flushing, nausea, and rapid heartbeat when they drink. Many people who experience these effects avoid alcohol, which helps protect them from developing alcoholism.**

http://www.niaaa.nih.gov/alcohol-health/overview-alcohol-consumption/alcohol-use-disorders/genetics-alcohol-use-disorders

 

[Shimmer.Fade]

WTF? damn that is crazy, I...i don't even know what to say/think/speculate right now, I mean if a plane w/ 2-300 passengers flew off-course, just for a second, I guess I just take it as granted that there'd be radars all over it, that it's comm would be tapped (if it wasn't from the get-go), etc etc

/Wild-conjecture alert: Last night i learned the details of this whole story from my mother and, after verifying she was right and it was legitly-"missing", immediately came to the tentative conclusion that surely ppl do know what/where it is, and it's just not been made public. I've got fuck-all as to the 'why', but I just find it close to incomprehensible that a large airliner could pull a disappearing act in this manner, in these times. I'd be googling this hard right now, if I wasn't close to 2days offline due to modem failure far, far too much to catch up on lol, this'll just go to the back-burner ;P

Yea it is pretty wild. I know more than a few governments who would love to get their hands on technology that would make such an act possible. Practice makes perfect as they say.

 

[Shrooms00087]

Learn to admit when you are wrong. The parallel was not between the genetics of addictions and homosexuality were you to have read closer. The parallel that I was drawing attention to was that of your rhetoric regarding drug users with certain rhetoric regarding homosexuals.

I'm going to break this down quote by quote. Sorry by the way. I was wrong in fact. I said I wouldn't reply.

Now back to how you are wrong.

You seem to accept that homosexuals have no choice because their genes make them gay.

Nope. I do not believe that. I believe that sexual reproduction is the function of genes. Consequently I do not know of any gene that makes one homosexual. Sexuality, however, is the function of Love. Or even more simply than that it's about dropping a load.

Well, without spending a shit load of time explaining to you the science behind it

You don't have to. That article summed up my point from a few posts ago.

And my argument was if you knew you had a genetic disorder prone to addiction your responsibility then is --to not use drugs. Once you do *[use drugs] "it becomes an illness, if anything".

*But like I said, I'm not against ethical treatment of drug users. Rather, throwing all other drugs into the marijuana issue which is gathering heat is suicide.

One can be predisposed to issues of drug use (societal, economic, parental, etc) but this does not mean it constitutes itself as a genetic disorder. I mean maybe unless you're a crack baby?

So now we have come full circle. You agree with me. And your x rhetoric about y rhetoric was useless and ludicrous. However. I still love you with all my heart! Me and Bitpattern were thinking about starting a stamp collecting club, we're pretty popular so I don't know how many spots are open...But you should definitely apply!

 

[Shimmer.Fade]

Delusion at its finest.

 

[Shrooms00087]

^ This is what we call defeat. When all you have left is ineffectual insults.

Application denied. Sorry, you're just not club material.

 

[Shimmer.Fade]

No, what we call defeat are your illogical connections and lack of will to address the real faults with your argument. I felt no need to rub it in since I thought from our posts the logic and clarity of our arguments speaks for themselves. I was under the impression you were applying a different standard to homosexuals and drug users, and now I just realize you are a backwards asshole.

 

[Jabberwocky]

I was sick.as.dog yesterday, and the time I spent awake was in bed watching VICE documentaries. Had only seen that series once before and that was a while ago- I definitely recommend checking them out for a slew of random, short 'docu-style' flicks; the entirety are up for free on their youtube channel :D
some cool ones were 'oil piracy in nigeria', the episode where they brought Dennis Rodman to north korea, crime&punishment in gaza strip (I could go on and on, they've got tons of real entertaining pieces)

 

[Shimmer.Fade]

Yea, Vice has some pretty awesome stuff.

The last one I watched was with all the deported central americans along the US boarder with Mexico living in some river basin having their shanties being constantly destroyed by the federales. Pretty sick what some people can do with a smile on their face.

Hope you are getting better!