Causes of Causticity: 2-Methyl-AP237

[negrogesic]

This compound (a 2 methyl analog of the opioid buccinazine) is widely reported to be quite caustic regardless of ROA, causing intense nasal irritation, stomach upset when taken orally and breathing difficulties/lung damage when vaporized.

My question is, would it be expected that the compound in its pure state is caustic? Perhaps acyl piperazines are caustic?

Cinnamyl chloride would likely be used in its synthesis, which is pretty caustic stuff itself. Perhaps there is unreacted cinnamyl chloride present in these samples?

Is there a way to elucidate the inherent causticity based on its structure? And are there ways to mitigate its causticity? Would converting it into a freebase reduce its causticity? I am expecting some and not looking to burn a hole through whatever orifice it is applied to.

*edit: it arrived, the pH appears to be around 3.5

 

[atara]

The pKaH+ is quite low because as an amine it resembles both benzylamine and morpholine, both already with reduced basicity.

Additionally, the positive charge on nitrogen probably induces a dipole in the alkene due to Coulomb forces and the fact that the mean angle between the alkene bond B and the vector R pointing from N to the alkene midpoint is nonzero. The potential energy associated with a mean polarization p in the alkene is roughly:

k*p*<B•R>/(BR^2) - V(p)

where k is the familiar electric constant and V is generally a monotonically increasing function which I use to capture all of the other Coulomb forces on the bonding orbitals. Here angle brackets denote the mean of an observable relative to a quantum state which is in this case roughly analogous to the classical idea of "long-term average over time". What this means in practice is that since most of the bonds in the molecule have multiple centers between them and the nitrogen, they point in all different ways and the Coulombic forces cancel out, but the alkene has a much more stable angle with only one sp3 rotating carbon altering <B•R> so it may become polarized.

That's important because a polarized alkene is a Michael acceptor! And Michael acceptors are the lachrymators par excellence.

tl;dr freebase it lol

 

[negrogesic]

Thank you atara, much appreciated!

tl;dr freebase it lol

By "freebase it" do you mean, a) vaporize the salt b) convert it into a freebase then vaporize, or c) convert into a freebase before oral injestion?

Do you have first hand experience with this compound? I took 35mg and it feels like morphine-lite (I technically don't have much of a tolerance right now my permatolerance from past opioid abuse means I'd probably need more like 80mg for a more fulfilling effect).

(I read intranasal administration is the most euphoric with this compound but that it is hard on the nose and my nose is already pretty messed up.)

So again, would a freebase of this compound via sodium carbonate produce something less irritating?

 

[paracelsius]

I wonder why the para-nitrophenyl is not available yet. It is more potent than the cinnamyl ~ 25xM. That would take care of some of the causticity issue since less will be needed. I suggested AP-237 way back ~2016.. nice to see it becoming popular (my hunch pretty soon the ban axle will fall on that one too! after isos.

 

[negrogesic]

Well i snorted a fair amount yesterday, maybe 50mg total and I had no issue or discomfort.

Sort of dirty feeling opioid though, with incredible tachyphylaxis. The first day I tried a 40mg oral dose and felt it quite strongly, second day i had over 100mg through various routes with lackluster effect. Perhaps the redditors who extol this drugs virtues are inexperienced.