Carb Cycling

p-mo

Bluelight Crew
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Mar 12, 2004
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Alright peeps... long time no post, I know! :p

Currently running a bit of a recomp/cut during the run up to summer hols. Nothing drastic- running Ostarine at around 15mg a day and finishing up a bottle of clen I've had lying around for ages.

Trying to carb cycle for the first time (Im naturally very lean so never really needed to cut before- but since turning 30 the hormones aint what they once were!). Currently hitting the gym x3 a week with lots of supers and doing a 3 mile run once a week as well as walking around 3miles a day. My high carb days are on my workout days.

So currently my high carb days start as soon as I wake up- like I'll have some porridge, protein shake, nuts. I'll then have some lunch (salmon, brown rice and veggies is pretty standard) then workout around 3 and have PWO shake after. Obv with a couple of healthy snacks in between.

My question is- should I instead stop all carbs until after I workout and then have a 24-hour high carb window or am I better doing as I am now so I have enough energy to go really hard during workouts.

Plan is drop around 3-4lbs of fat and gain similar in muscle.
 
i wouldn't carb cycle on clen personally. just lifting and that 3 mile walk a day will make u sweat off a lot fat. i'd keep the carb cycle for after the clen so you don't exhaust your options too much.

what are your macro grams and %ratio looking like for low, moderate and high days so far?

on the carb up days i'd go for eating over maintenance calories, maybe 200 - 500 over, or at least maintenance. also i think simple carbs are better for carb up day, some people don't believe that, i think it's just a matter of fiber overload lol, i thought it was much more comfortable eating pasta, rice and sugars than fiber rich carbs.

when i have personally carb cycled i kept my carbs centered around my workouts when i refed. like 30% of my daily carbs pre-workout and the rest within 3 hours after my workout or at least during that day after my workout. i just did 5 low days and 2 refeed days on leg and back day. the whole thing was kind of unmotivating to me to be honest lol

i'm not a big fan of carb cycling to be honest. i think it makes people look soft and flat and it only really works appropriately when done for short periods of time....

never heard of ostarine btw
 
Clens just about finished anyway- it was just to give me head start- ran up to 120mcg a day but prob only got about that left so ramping down quickly.

Ostarine is a SARM.

Macros are something like:
200g protein, 300g carbs, 120g fats on high carb,
200g protein, 30g carbs, 150g fats on low carb days

Carbs and fats are all healthy at the mo. High fiber low-gi carbs mainly although I have had a bit of white rice and potatoes during my pwo meal.

Heading on hols in 3.5 weeks so will just be running till then.
 
lol dude my bad i hardly answered your question i thought u were just asking for general advice.

one question though, how come you got so much fat for your high carb days? for carb up day i would drop fats real low and protein back down to 1g/lb of bodyweight
 
lol dude my bad i hardly answered your question i thought u were just asking for general advice.

one question though, how come you got so much fat for your high carb days? for carb up day i would drop fats real low and protein back down to 1g/lb of bodyweight

Just to hit my total cals for the day. 300gs of high quality carbs (brown rice, oats, sweet potato, wholemeal pasta) ends up being a fair amount to put away and I'm too poor to afford much in the way of decent protein! I've always kept my fats quite high during normal routines- keeps skin and hair lookin' good! %)

What would you suggest dropping 20-30g of fats and replacing with another 50-80g of carbs? Or an even bigger swing?

FYI my fats are all decent too- take about 5g of fish oil a day, olive oil, hemp oil and coconut for cooking. Avacados and loads of nuts/seeds throughout the day. The rest comes from animal/fish fat from my protein sources and some from eggs/dairy.
 
i mean there's obviously nothing set in stone but i would personally drop fat down to like 15-20% of daily calories when refeeding, especially because all that insulin will make you store more fat than usual. hit your 1g/lb of bodyweight in protein and fill the rest of your calories up with carbs
 
We've had a discussion on diet and meal-timings in general on another forum, its interesting have a read:

1. The majority of your diet should be comprised of "whole" foods – lean proteins, grains, dairy, fruits, and vegetables. Those are foods we often call "clean." Though clean is rather subjective, I think you get the idea. Food choices are pretty open to what has the nutrients and makes you happy.

2. The energy equation holds true – to lose fat you must burn more energy than you consume and vice versa for building muscle. When changing your body, you aim to lose fat without losing lean mass, and gain lean mass without gaining too much fat alongside it.

Consider the following:

1. Flexible Meal Timing

Hitting your total caloric needs for the day is more important than when you eat those calories. It doesn't really matter if this is eating 6 meals a day or eating 2 meals a day. It also doesn't matter exactly when, either. The majority of your calories can come later in the day, spread out over the day, or at the same times every day, as long as you're hitting your totals.

The myth of "metabolic stoking" through multiple meals every couple of hours has been firmly debunked by science. The research on the topic has grown over the years.

Bellisle et al. found that when measuring 24-hour energy expenditure, there was no difference between frequent small meals or infrequent large meals.(1)

Similarly, Verboeket-van de Venne and Westerterp compared 2 meals versus 7 meals per day, and found that again, there were no differences in energy expenditure within the 24-hour period.

During the "fasted" period, there was heightened fat oxidation because of the lack of available carbohydrates, and increased carbohydrate oxidation after the first meal. Protein oxidation showed no changes with either protocol.(2)

Your body doesn't really keep a clock on calorie intake, as long as you're meeting your needs within the 24-hour period. Your muscles will not fall off with fewer meals, and neither will your metabolism take a nose-dive. Specific meal timing is a variable you can adjust to meet your goals.

For those trying to lose fat, intermittent fasting protocols where you eat more calories in a shorter time-frame, or alternate high and low calories days, can allow you to stay in a deficit easier.

The potential benefits also include higher satiety and reduced cravings. If you struggle with tiny portions every couple hours and can hold off better if you get to eat big, being flexible with your meal sizes and when you eat them may help you stick to the diet.

Intermittent fasting methods have the distinction of being considered both the newest fad and the oldest dieting strategy known to man. The good news is that it boils down to the evidence-based principle that meal timing is flexible when caloric needs are met

Eating six meals a day every two to three hours to "stoke the metabolism" and prevent a catabolic "starvation mode" is bullshit. Your metabolism doesn't work that way. Grouping your meals together or getting all your calories in smaller time frames to fit your schedule or make adherence easier won't negatively affect your muscle gains or fat loss.

Explore meal frequency and timing flexibility and add another tool in the box to help you reach your goals. (It can also make your life much damn simpler)

2. If It Fits Your Macros
Traditional bodybuilding diets pigeonhole you into specific foods you "have" to eat for success – the famous clean foods versus dirty foods debate: chicken, broccoli, and oats; oats, broccoli, and chicken. You might as well just blend them together and drink them. Eating out, socializing, and your daily routine can soon start to centralize around what you can and can't eat.

At a physiological level your body can't really tell the difference between "types" of food. A carb is a carb. Protein is protein. Fat is fat. Your body won't reject a nutrient because it came in a different package on the shelf. This is where "if it fits your macros comes in."

The story is that IIFYM is not a "diet set-up" or style – it came from body-building threads where trainees were asking whether "macaroni could be eaten on my prep." The answer? "If it fits your macros bro, go for it."

For overall health considerations, eating whole foods for the majority of your diet is a good idea. But setting up calorie and macro goals means you have the freedom to pick foods you enjoy and gives you room for some of the "dirty" foods you love. This translates into a good balance of what you want with what you need.

Bottom Line

Making room for the foods you like through macro tracking promotes adherence and enjoyability on a diet. It also makes complete sense from a physiological and psychological point of view. Get your calories from the foods you want and still hit your goals. A life that revolves around what you can't do is not sustainable or healthy – it's also fxxxing annoying."

3. Eat Your Carbs at Night
Once upon a time someone told us carbs at night will make us fat.

Guess what? You can eat carbs at night and not get fat.

In fact, some will argue that eating carbs later in the day in the post-workout window is superior to eating them at other times of the day. Here are a couple of reasons.

You can avoid night time cravings and promote dietary adherence. No more skimpy dinners while your kids gorge on pasta. Like to sit down to a big meal at the end of the day with your family? Do it. You can shuttle your nutrients around and eat them when it's most convenient and enjoyable to you.

Promote growth and recovery during sleep. While kind of anecdotal in theory (24-hour calorie intake is the most important factor), it can't hurt. Imagine plenty of nutrients available as your Testosterone peaks in the middle of your sleep cycle. Sleep and good nutrition fuels growth.

Eat your meals when you can eat them properly. Total calorie intake is the big denominator at the end of the day. This includes when you eat your carbs. Long work day and access to crappy food during the workday? Eat lighter during the day and bigger at night.

Bottom Line

Eat your carbs whenever you want, and there may be merit in getting them later in the day in your post-workout meal"

Research supports the principle of flexible dieting.

4. Manipulate Your Protein

Researchers come to plenty of conclusions about certain diet protocols and their efficacy, without thinking about everyone eating the same amounts of protein. This is one lesson we can learn from traditional bodybuilding diet setups.

Get your protein.

The protein amount in the diet is one of the most important variables for fat loss, muscle growth, and diet adherence (a.k.a. keeping your sanity). As the king of macronutrients, upping your protein is as close as you can get to "magic" in a diet setup if you haven't taken it seriously before.

Why? Protein is the most thermogenic nutrient. Basically, it costs the most to process in the body. It also has the highest levels of satiety, so you feel more satisfied with meals high in protein.

It's the most valuable macro for lean mass retention while in a deficit, and can be combined with both fat and carbs successfully. A consistent level of protein in your diet can't be underestimated. Aiming for at least 1 gram per pound of bodyweight per day is the agreed upon basic recommendation.

Cutting or dropping calories? Consider making protein even higher to stack the odds in your favour for retaining lean mass and keep you as satisfied as possible while calories are low.

If you have a lot of fat to lose, setting protein at 1 gram per pound might not be realistic. If so, consider setting protein at 1 gram per pound of your goal weight. So if you are 300 pounds and aim to weigh 225, go off of 225 for protein intake.

Nutritionist Alan Aragon came up with this shortcut when getting an accurate lean mass measurement isn't possible. He calls this a "sneaky way of setting protein based on lean body mass, without having to measure or figure out exactly what your LBM is."

Another great myth that we can conveniently toss is the claim that only 30 grams of protein can be "used" by the body at a time and anything beyond that is being thrown out. Not true. The argument is that protein synthesis will cap out at 30-40 grams, but that has nothing to do with what your body will use and digest as a whole. Your body simply doesn't work that way.

Bottom Line

Protein is a big player in diet considerations. Eat more of it to retain your lean mass while in a deficit."

When it comes to diet, you have a lot of options available if you remember the principles. There are no magic foods and there are no magic methods. The magic is in what works for you,
 
^ Excellent post Genetic. Excellent. I'm adding that to the starter cycle sticky. That post basically tells you how eat on steroids.
 
I think it pretty much just tells you how to eat, perioid. very good read and I'm glad to know I can eat whatever, whenever as long as it fits my needs. speaking of which, I'm hungry as fuck and going to eat a late night dinner.
 
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