Bupe cant stop using H to fulfill my bodys needs even on Bupe plese help?!?

[bupebailey]

Hello all,

I have been a long time reader of this site and have just recently created an account of my own.
Now to get to the situation I'm dealing with,I went from an extremely heavy H habit, shooting up to 3 grams a day of powdered style (probably fentynal based).
I went 24 hours to begin my induction and successfully avoided PCWD. SO through the next couple of days I proceeded with increasing my dose of bupe hoping to get t that comfortable spot, yet it never came seemingly no matter how high I upped the dosage. Was I in full blown withdraws? NO not at all. The majority of my symptoms were managed with the Bupe, but there was still so much lethargy and that foggy headed depression not to mention the eye tearing and restless legs. So I did what any heroin addict does when they feel sick and went and scored. After I used all that I wanted to jump right back n the bupe because I am truly sick of this shit. I'm done with H and all that goes along with it. I read up on how quickly I could redose on the bupe and found an article about a fellow that found using this method made his induction easier. here's where the problem sets in. yes the H filled the gap on my uncovered receptors that were causing me the discomfort, and I continued on my bupe hoping that by now my receptors would be so saturated that I wouldn't need any more H. Well to my dismay i awoke this morning feeling dope sick. I took my bupe thinking surely it would solve the discomfort then hours later I was having chills, my eyes were watering and most of all I was experiencing that indescribable fogginess/depression/anxiety/all encompassing mental, that seems physical awareness that I was sick and in desperate need of something to fix it. So I went once more and scored not wanting to at all. I just want the bupe to do its job. Now I have 2 questions. whats the absolute quickest I can get back on the bupe last times I have waited 8 hours with nno problems. but I want to get my receptors nice and saturated so I can avoid doing this again. I just want to find stability on the Bupe. and now I find myself on it and still having a dope habbit. Please any advice on how to get this to work for e would be greatly appreciated. .

 

[keeping]

how much bupe are you taking a day? whats your ROA? any history of depression?

 

[Ilove2nod]

Well wait as long as you can wait before going back to the sub.. I usually wait 12 hours, or like one night I will do dope and then the next morning after I wake up I will take sub and be fine.. when I would do them both, and take "vacations" from my bupe, and do full agonist opioids, that's what I did.. I love bupe now, and don't have any desire to do heroin or any other opioid, but bupe now.. I wont lie, the first week or so of making the switch from heroin or any full agonist opioid to bupe sucks! I hated subs at first, like truly fucking hated them! I just wanted to use my DOC and kept relapsing over and over.. and over! so many times.. but stick with the bupe once you get back on, and for me once I finally committed to just taking my bupe for like 2 weeks with no slip ups, I got used to it, and actually began to like it.. another thing that I don't exactly recommend but it was the only way I was actually able to "feel" something from bupe, as sublingually taking it did next to nothing for me, was to use another ROA for it.. I started sniffing it, and liked the feeling, like a lot.. pretty much as much as I liked to do any other opioid. then I tried plugging it, which I would recommend, as its probably less harmful than sublingual, and has a way better BA than sublingual does, and works amazing, better than sniffing! I now IV my bupe for the ~%100 BA and the effect I get from that ROA, but never would I recommend it to anyone who doesn't already do it.. ever. IT is not good for you, but it works much better.. basically in a nutshell, try taking it the right way first, stick with it, fight the urge to use dope, and see how it goes for the first month or so.. if you like it, stick with taking it that way, if not and you still are depressed and feel like you might relapse or have cravings, try plugging it! it really works like 3x better than sublingual does IME. sniffing works well too, but again I don't recommend abusing your bupe, as it will just lead you to be trading one addiction for another, but if sublingual or plugging doesn't work and you keep wanting to use dope, well sniffing bupe is better than the alternative of doing H any ROA, because at least you pretty much know your safe(OD wise, but it can fuck up your nose, as most anything can when sniffed) as long as you don't go over the ceiling dose which is 32mg I believe.. less is more. 2mg doses, spread out through the day is how I do it, and get great effects from it, no matter the ROA.. when I sniffed bupe, I usually only did like 1mg at a time throughout the day and would be great for hours.. plugging, I did like 1-2mg as well, and that was the next most effective ROA to me from IV. NEVER START IVING YOUR SUB!!! I am now a bupe addict because of this! I love it, but also hate that I am fucking up my body too! I just cant stop though, I am a needle addict too. I love IVing anything I can, and bupe is now my DOC as of now, I guess its better than shooting dope, and possibly dying of an OD...

 

[CruelBri]

bro... when u take h for that long with that much you might have to wait about 3-5 days before you start to feel better... just dont give up. i know from just going on 2-3 week binges when i switch back to subs, it gets rid of the WD symptoms but i still feel really down and lethargic as fuck for about 3 days until finally you start feeling back to normal


give it another try dont go crazy with the subs bro... take 4 mg in the morning, 2 mg at like 3-4pm and like 2 to go to bed. keep that up for about a week and you WILL start feeling better and you will feel a bump of energy

 

[chelle216]

Not to be a killjoy, but you're not gonna find solace in bupe immediately. Bupe was a revolving door until I just got tired of immersing myself in the progressively bleaker dope scene. Frankly, I never could stay on bupe while heroin remained a viable alternative. Hell, I even traveled to Europe (from US) and wound up flying home two days ahead of my planned schedule because bupe just wasn't cutting it.
My point is, you have to give it time. It has nothing to do with H filling up those "gaps". H doesn't fill anything but a want, much like my personal sweet tooth isn't going to be filled by anything but chocolate.

 

[bupebailey]

how much bupe are you taking a day? whats your ROA? any history of depression?

Im on the equivalent of 8mg suboxone 2xdaily sublingually. Although I usually only end up taking the one doae due to my H use and fear of taking the second too soon I have gone as little as 6 hours though after my last shot to take more of my bupe .Im trying to get in the twice daily amount in hopes that it will begin to woek. The crazy thing is over th e past week or so the bupe has done very little in the way of blocking the H. I have an extremely lomg history with depression but I am currently taking my prescribed antidepressant. The real bitch about all of this, is how many times I have gone through this with a nearly 5 1/2 yr span of total sobriety from opiates and any other drugs realy. Now I am facing the most serious of consequences of losing my only chlid to cps and breaking probation and facing a minimum of 7 years prison time. Any rational person would say its obvious what the hel to do, unfortunately addiction has twisted and mamaed my logic when Im in the throws of withdraws.

 

[bupebailey]

then I tried plugging it, which I would recommend, as its probably less harmful than sublingual, and has a way better BA than sublingual does, and works amazing, better than sniffing! I now IV my bupe for the ~%100 BA and the effect I get from that ROA, but never would I recommend it to anyone who doesn't already do it.. ever. IT is not good for you, but it works much better.. basically in a nutshell, try taking it the right way first, stick with it, fight the urge to use dope, and see how it goes for the first month or so.. if you like it, stick with taking it that way, if not and you still are depressed and feel like you might relapse or have cravings, try plugging it! it really works like 3x better than sublingual does IME.

Thanks for the input and advice. I may try the plugging. You see my H addiction actually transpired as a result of an addiction to IVing subs 10 years ago. i contracted endocarditis from it and came within an inch of losing my life. Apparently due to the chemical makeup of the drug and what it does to the inside of your circulatory system. it causes lesions which get infected quickly and turn to staph and travel to your heart faster than you could ever imagine. Anyways it lead me down a slippery slope of addiction and I no longer have any good veins. I currently using my femoral vein and often miss and hit the artery which is all extremely dangerous and I've had adverse effects from it. I tried a couple times to shoot it again throughout the years and there has always been this tainted experience around it so it literally repulses me. So in short I need to muscle fuck my way through the next 2 weeks and should be okay? that will be extremely hard but i have to find the willpower to do so even if i have to supplement with some benzos and muscle relaxers. And yes everyone I am well aware of the contraindications between these medicines, however coming from a person who used to swallow handfulls of xanax and shoot enough dope to kill a rhino I think I can manage.

 

[bupebailey]

bro... when u take h for that long with that much you might have to wait about 3-5 days before you start to feel better... just dont give up. i know from just going on 2-3 week binges when i switch back to subs, it gets rid of the WD symptoms but i still feel really down and lethargic as fuck for about 3 days until finally you start feeling back to normal


give it another try dont go crazy with the subs bro... take 4 mg in the morning, 2 mg at like 3-4pm and like 2 to go to bed. keep that up for about a week and you WILL start feeling better and you will feel a bump of energy

Thanks for the advice and the straightforward approach, So you think I'm taking too much bupe? 8-16 mg daily ? I just need to white knuckle it through the initial discomfort and use my little helpers ( benzos& somas) to alleviate some of the remaining symptoms.

 

[Effect]

I will soon be going through the transition process back to bupe myself after my brief little heroin/fent binge and after doing this many times over the past few years I've learned that what others in this thread are saying is pretty much the cold hard truth particularly if your habit is large or if you've riden the dope-bupe merry go round many times throughout the duration of your opiate use.

Without getting into the whole less-is-more/norbuprenorphine talk (which I personally do believe is the case after you've become adjusted to bupe), IMO it probably simply has to do with the fact that your body is used to high doses of a very powerful opiate everyday (often multiple times per day) and when one makes the attempt to switch over to buprenorphine, it just does not activate the receptors in your brain the way that heroin does due to the partial agonist nature of the bupe.

Don't get me wrong, having the bupe on your receptors obviously eases/eliminates most physical symptoms associated with withdrawal because you are giving your partially giving your body what it craves, but I feel that in some cases it just takes some time to adjust and have the mental depression/anhedonia subside. Give yourself a chance and let your body take the few (variable) days it needs and just take the bupe. You said it yourself you can definitely make the transition a lot easier with a modest dose of a benzo as well as the other common comfort meds that others use during withdrawal.

 

[bupebailey]

Not to be a killjoy, but you're not gonna find solace in bupe immediately. Bupe was a revolving door until I just got tired of immersing myself in the progressively bleaker dope scene. Frankly, I never could stay on bupe while heroin remained a viable alternative. Hell, I even traveled to Europe (from US) and wound up flying home two days ahead of my planned schedule because bupe just wasn't cutting it.
My point is, you have to give it time. It has nothing to do with H filling up those "gaps". H doesn't fill anything but a want, much like my personal sweet tooth isn't going to be filled by anything but chocolate.

The fact of the matter is I've had the exact same experience as you down to the trip to Europe to "get away" and detox with bupe only issue was I couldn't leave early and was there for nearly a month the idea was to get off of everything but I came home and the first trip I made was to score. I cant tell you how many of those trips I've been on, of course only one of them was to Europe I've been through countless rehabs and actually had a successful 5 1/2 years of sobriety. Until one day one horrifically shitty decision lead me right back where I am today. I guess its just the first time I've ever landed myself in this particular predicament. I'm now facing a hell of a lot more to loose including my child who I had prior to this relapse shes not even 2 years old yet, not to mention I'm still on another year of probation that if I fail I will be going to prison for a minimum of 7 years. I really appreciate your frankness because you're right. Its no longer a viable option for me and its so easy to get lost in that insanity of convincing yourself of just about anything. I guess more than anything I was just looking for peoples current experience somehow thinking that the drug had changed since my last bout with it. Also I'm on Zubsolve and even being armed with the knowledge that it simply has lower doses of Bupe than suboxone due to its higher bio availability I somehow convinced myself I was dealing with a new drug and uncharted territories. I just need to stop fucking around and put up with the discomfort until I normalize. Again thank you for your response and input.

 

[bupebailey]

Thanks for adding to the support everyone has given me. I guess I've known this to be the case just from personal experience (although this is the largest habit I've ever made the switch from) and reading other threads and info on the subject. There just seems to be something more comforting about hearing it from like minded people who have experienced it themselves and are directing their input directly to me. Thanks again to everyone! I will post again along the way to let you know my progress with this. That is if anyone cares to hear it

 

[CruelBri]

Thanks for the advice and the straightforward approach, So you think I'm taking too much bupe? 8-16 mg daily ? I just need to white knuckle it through the initial discomfort and use my little helpers ( benzos& somas) to alleviate some of the remaining symptoms.

thats exactly what u need to do... and yea man LESS IS MORE....


take 8 mg max a day im telling u 4 mg in the morning 2 in afternoon and 2 at night works great.


just give it another shot and dont shoot for 7 days I can promise you, you will feel way better after ur 5-7 day... before that though your gonna feel very tired, and slow... your gonna feel depressed but not as depressed/tired/slow as you would by just straight W/D from the dope... so stick it out, use your helpers and then by day 5-6 i promise you will have a complete turn around...


people hate subs because they dont give them enough time to really work there magic... heroin users try subs for 1-2 days and there like wow it doesnt make me w/d but i feel like shit, fuck this ima just shoot dope again... but once you get passed that you will feel a huge rush of energy come over you... and your gonna feel amazing with a ton of energy just like u did when u would shoot dope unless you were aiming to nod out every time... lolgood luck

 

[bupebailey]

LESS IS MORE....


take 8 mg max a day im telling u 4 mg in the morning 2 in afternoon and 2 at night works great.

I wonder if I will still go through all of the lethargy and depression since I've been on the subs for over a week now, ie just been also shooting dope with it. i was hoping to somehow evade that inevitable shitty period, if I did then hooray for me but if not I will survive the rough patch. I have to. But yeah my basic reasoning for shooting up H was to function, then sometimes I would enjoy a nod but I just want to live my life an not fee like shit all the time. Ive already taken 8 mg today this morning and shortly there after did the rest of the dope I had which wasn't much, so around mid afternoon I plan to take more sub, then try your 3x a day routine. thanks again.

 

[The80killer]

I was addicted to Oxycontin 80s, 5-7 a day smoked and I used subs to quit and they worked awesome, I didn't even have to wait to be sick to switch over. I only took the subs for 2 weeks or so and jumped off with out any problems. After being clean for a while they stopped making the old type Oxys I started the H, had about the same size habit as you, and never worried too much because I figured I could just use subs to quit. then I realized that subs do not work nearly as well when it comes to H. It would only get rid of some of the WDs, still would be in pain and couldn't sleep. Eventually I came across something called Lyrica, it is a non narcotic nerve pain medicine. It got rid off all my WD symptoms and it also put me in a good mood. When I took it with the subs I was able to quit just like I did with the 80s. I also learned about Gabapentin, which is in the same family as Lyrica. Gabapentin and Lyrica can be addicting I've heard. Alot of people on this site use them to get off opiates on this site and there is alot of info about it here. Hopefully this info can help, I've quit and relapsed enough times to do it painlessly, I knew in order to quit for good I had to move away. keep up the good fight and good luck

 

[bupebailey]

I just wanted to give everyone an update on today. I had a moment of panic after taking my sub knowing I had no other options, well there's always another option, but not for me, not anymore. I pushed through the fear and used my little helpers, possibly a little too many of them, but I made it through. I woke up today feeling better but not great, I went ahead and stuck with 8mg in the morning, but plan to break up my evening and midday doses as was suggested by CruelBri. So far so good, I plan to take care of some business today and keep busy and keep my mind off of what I'm feeling and trying not to obsess about it constantly by assessing "how do I feel at the exact moment". I'm doing well today and will continue to share my experience. thank you all for your help! It truly is nice to find support from like minded people who have first hand experience with what I'm going through.

 

[CruelBri]

GOOD FUCKING JOB!

keep at it... your gonna feel better u just gotta give it 5-7 days... after that u will never think about H again.

drink water, try and sleep, and keep on pushing, i promise you in the next couple of days if you stick to only BUPE you will be making a post soon about how you finnaly broke through the fatigue and depressed feeling. and you will feel amazing.


stick it out. its the only way.

 

[Ilove2nod]

It is going to probably be hard, like it is for most people to actually like your subs and want to take them instead.. but I swear once you become adjusted to bupe, you will actually enjoy it and look forward to that first dose every day, at least that has been my experience! That is how I am now.. I prefer the long lasting, nice, opioid like effects I get from subutex, over oxy/dope these days, I mean its obviously not AS nice of a feeling, and lacks the euphoria of most full agonists but still feels good.. I mean if someone handed me some grade A heroin/opana for free, I might fuck up and use, because those 2 drugs when done right, have the most amazing feeling I have ever felt! They are the only opioids I truly still love, especially opana. But even then, I would just take a little vacation from the bupe, do the opana/dope for a bit, and then just hop back on the bupe with no issues. I used to take vacations from my sub a lot, until the most recent time I took one, when I got some H and really started to feel like I could easily fall back to my old ways if I did anymore than I had done because of how good it was and all of the money I had at the time, just after 2 days of using it... and once I took my subs after that small slip up, I never stopped, I think this is the longest I have gone without using any other opioid, other than subutex.. like over a year now.

So just hang in there, keep taking the subs, use another ROA (not IV though, never! if you do, use micron filters if you can!) if you feel like sublingual isn't working as well as you would like, it is still better than getting back on dope.. even if you sniff it its WAY better health wise than shooting dope is right? and as I said before, plugging it is totally harmless, and works awesome IME, that is the next best thing to IVing sub, as I have found out.. it hits you within 5 mins or less, is no more harmful than taking it as prescribed or sublingual, and has a great BA.. the first time I did it, along with valium or klonopin(I was prescribed both at different times throughout my time on subs) I forget which one it was, but it felt so fucking good.. like I swear it felt almost BETTER than IVing it does for me, it was crazy! I got this amazing, warm fuzzy, full agonist like opiate feeling I had never felt before.. and even caught a nod! that feeling right there, that I got, would make anyone actually enjoy subs! Sublingual just didn't work well enough for me, and when I found out it had a very low BA like ~%30 more or less, I was like I have to try something else with this.. and then that is when I began to LIKE my subs... when I started sniffing and plugging them.. and actually preferred that feeling I got, to that of other opioids.. mainly for its lengthy duration of action, compared to most full agonists, where you are dope sick within a few hours or less, after doing them, and for the nice energetic, opioid like buzz I got from both of those ROAs.. still try it sublingually, using other ROAs is basically just for those of us who don't get anything out of bupe, when taken sublingually how its meant to be.

 

[Phil.McKeer]

Bailey, a little couple things that might help:

If you want to take an 8mg dose all at once, that's fine. But break it up into pieces (preferably at least 4x2mg pcs) and take them one by one with a few minutes in between. This produces less waste escaping through the saliva into the stomach.

Also, I want you to know (since you mention bupe "isn't working that well") - when I was opioid naive (not totally naive, but had only been smoking dope for about a month, enough for a single hit of tar vaporized in a bong with a titanium nail and no water would get me nodding and 100% opiated), and I decided to take 2mg subutex because my friends said that at my tolerance it would get my high as a mofo for cheaper than H. I did. It did. At that tolerance level, 2mg got me high for 12 hours. I did 4mgs a week later and was high for two days straight. When I say "high", I mean opiated like a mofo. Some people don't like the quality of the buzz but it felt just like oxycodone (a nice, clean, pharmaceutical opioid buzz). I did puke many times.

All that to say that bupe is strong, and deceptively so for those with high tolerances. Give it time.

If after two weeks of 8+ mg bupe/day you still don't feel comfortable, you may want to consider switching to methadone, as it is a full agonist, and will scratch the itch that subutex can't quite scratch. You don't have to wait to take methadone on top of buprenorphine, btw. It's only the other way around. Just FYI.

Hope at least some of that helps and that you're doing well. Good luck to you and your kid, no one deserves to have their kid taken away unless they were abused. I really like the idea of CPS but I really loathe it when they take the children of people who don't abuse them, but use drugs themselves. That's kidnapping as far as I'm concerned.

 

[The80killer]

As mentioned by alot of other people splitting the dose up into smaller ones will work better than taking a large dose at once. I know from experience and based on what I've seen written on people's prescription bottles, a good way to start out is take 1 to 2 mg in the morning, then wait an hour and take another 1 to 2 mg and wait another hour, basically repeating the process until your WD symptoms go away or you reach your daily prescribed dose. After you figure out how much you need daily you can start dosing 3 times a day, then eventually 2 times a day, then once and then you can start tapering or keep doing your daily dose if your on a maintenance program. don't get discouraged, and just remember if you can beat this you are stronger than 90% of people in this world. I've been off everything for years now. I've been in the Army since getting clean, been through a year long combat deployment, have had 20% of my body covered in 2nd and 3rd degree burns and I still tell people that withdrawals are the most physically painful thing I've ever dealt with and quitting opiates is the hardest thing I've ever done. don't let people get you down, don't get discouraged by relapse if you do, and stay strong. excersize helps alot especially with PAWS and surround your self with positive clean people and some day you will look back and realize how strong you really are. keep a positive outlook and develop a sense of humor and make peace with your mistakes, good luck and best wishes.