So, I recall hearing somewhere at the street level of knowledge (that is to say, from hearsay, not a scientific source) , that smoking cannabis before sleep inhibits REM sleep. I was wondering if anyone on here knows of scientific publications that would discuss cannabis' effects, if any at all, on the individual phases of the sleep cycle, or the sleep cycle overall.
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CD Moderators: someguyontheinternet
Cannabis and the sleep cycle
- Thread starter rm-rf
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Roujaxian
Bluelighter
Personally I've noticed I either dream a lot less or remember them very rarely unless I stop for a while
ive heard about this too but from my understanding without REM sleep you dont dream. and through my entire time smoking, daily and always before bed, i havent missed a dream in i dont even know how long. every night without fail. some more vivid than others but smoking doesnt seem to have any effect good or bad.
eckley47
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Oct 23, 2009
- Messages
- 106
nope, everyone dreams each night. people who say they don't dream simply
don't remember their dreams.
and the REM sleep stage is when your dreams are the most vivid. so maybe us potheads don't recall our dreams because we're potheads? this doesn't make sense though because my boyfriend and i are heavy/daily smokers. he always has nightmares that are so vivid that he thinks they're real. i've caught him crying, whimpering, and hyperventilating in his sleep many times. and for me, sometimes i dont remember anything and other times i have these crazy, realistic, amazing dreams. it doesn't make sense to me.
I generally notice my dreams ebb and flow in intensity and frequency depending on how heavily I'm smoking.
I too would like to read some science because I don't think it's a matter of just not remembering them. That seems to simplify things a little too much. And there are times when I won't remember a dream even if I've not smoked for weeks.
I DO know though, that whenever I've gone on a binge and then stop, the first few nights of sleep bring the craziest, vivid and realistic dreams. I LOVE IT. I do not, however, love the restless leg syndrome that seems to come with it.
I too would like to read some science because I don't think it's a matter of just not remembering them. That seems to simplify things a little too much. And there are times when I won't remember a dream even if I've not smoked for weeks.
I DO know though, that whenever I've gone on a binge and then stop, the first few nights of sleep bring the craziest, vivid and realistic dreams. I LOVE IT. I do not, however, love the restless leg syndrome that seems to come with it.
Have you asked in Drug Studies or searched there for any papers? Sorry I do not know of any.
On a personal level my sleep and dream patterns are disrupted pretty badly when I stop consuming. It's then I suffer insomnia and when I do sleep it's filled with strange vivid dreams, sometimes sleep paralysis etc
That transition period between the 2 states is the tricky bit
On a personal level my sleep and dream patterns are disrupted pretty badly when I stop consuming. It's then I suffer insomnia and when I do sleep it's filled with strange vivid dreams, sometimes sleep paralysis etc
That transition period between the 2 states is the tricky bit
Roose
Bluelight Crew
^ Agreed, try your luck in Drugs Studies or Basic/Advanced Drug Discussion.
As far as personal experience I love smoking before I sleep. I feel like I can get a much better nights rest and I usually have very vivid dreams.
As far as personal experience I love smoking before I sleep. I feel like I can get a much better nights rest and I usually have very vivid dreams.
Chainer
Bluelighter
*Sigh* I'll give this a go:
It is my understanding that THC is naturally produced in humans, and your CB-1 and CB-2 receptors are the ones that allow THC to bind to them. I am under the impression they are near your hippocampus, or the place where you store short-term memory. Your brain interprets short-term memory while you dream, but if you are high, you don't remember (your short term memory is somewhat fried). This has nothing, or very little, to do with REM sleep cycles or stage 2/3.
To clear things up:
CB-1 regards a naturally occurring chemical in the body known as Anadamide -- often called Naturally Occurring Cannabinoid Compound (similar to THC).
CB-1 receptor refers exclusively to the dendrite of a nerve cell which binds the fatty molecule metabolized THC.
What is the point of naturally occurring THC in the body, you might ask? Well, the best guesses and research I've heard (on various boards and in psyc classes), is to protect the body from stroke, concussions, or any sort of trauma to the head. Also, it helps us during prolonged stress due to lack of sleep or related variables. This is just best-guess work at this point, though, but you can see how it may figure into sleeping.
Since THC is now known to be naturally occurring, it could be that smoking weed may eliminate the need for as much REM sleep as we would normally have. This is odd, though, as REM sleep is where the body gets the majority of it's healing and rest done (studies have found that waking someone up before REM sleep cycle yields... well... sleep deprivated insanity). If weed were to actually lower the amount of REM sleep, I think it would be noticeable, right? Well, when you quit smoking, you get intense dreams, which some attribute to the body "re upping" your natural THC levels.
Based on the fact that we do (I assume all of us here) smoke weed and still get REM sleep (as have generations upon generations before us), I don't think you have much to worry about. Heavy habitual use could produce a dependency upon weed until your body gets used to producing it's own THC again, though, but this seems to be a short-lived withdrawal symptom of VERY HEAVY users.
So, to answer your question: I do not think it inhibits REM sleep so much as our body needs -less-, or thinks it needs less. If it actually did inhibit REM sleep to a significant (scientifically speaking) degree, we would have noticed it by now. Cannabis does have ZERO toxicity and zero deaths strictly due to use (though I'm sure you could suffocate), it's actually safer than a lot of food you may consume on a daily basis.
Does unnaturally occurring THC interfere with REM sleep? Yes. How? Science doesn't seem to quiet know yet. Is it bad? It might be - but to what degree or in what way, that isn't really known. All we *really* know right now is that there is a causal effect. However, this effect does help a lot of people with over-active REM dreaming or night terrors. Perhaps this is a good thing? It was also suggested, once upon a time, that smoking reduces the lubrication in your eyes, so during REM... well... draw your own picture.
To best honest, isn't science still a bit confused about what REM sleep really is? What is the purpose of dreaming, or rapid eye movement anyway? To say that effecting dreams is good or bad assumes that you have full knowledge of a topic you can't possibly have knowledge of at all.
I suggest you look up reports on PsycINFO -- it's an amazing database with a very robust amount of research information that has been peer edited and reviewed. A lot of the info tends to be outdated when you look into drugs though, as a bulk of it was done in the 70s and was funded by the government (Read: Heavy Bias). It is important when looking up publicated research that you understand that ANY research done through a college (a lot of it) is GOVERNMENT FUNDED, STAMPED, AND REPORTED TO. There is still an agenda, but that doesn't mean all the information is bad.
Also consider that cannabis isn't made solely up of THC, but has other properties like CBD and CBN which may effect sleeping. Food for thought
It is my understanding that THC is naturally produced in humans, and your CB-1 and CB-2 receptors are the ones that allow THC to bind to them. I am under the impression they are near your hippocampus, or the place where you store short-term memory. Your brain interprets short-term memory while you dream, but if you are high, you don't remember (your short term memory is somewhat fried). This has nothing, or very little, to do with REM sleep cycles or stage 2/3.
To clear things up:
CB-1 regards a naturally occurring chemical in the body known as Anadamide -- often called Naturally Occurring Cannabinoid Compound (similar to THC).
CB-1 receptor refers exclusively to the dendrite of a nerve cell which binds the fatty molecule metabolized THC.
What is the point of naturally occurring THC in the body, you might ask? Well, the best guesses and research I've heard (on various boards and in psyc classes), is to protect the body from stroke, concussions, or any sort of trauma to the head. Also, it helps us during prolonged stress due to lack of sleep or related variables. This is just best-guess work at this point, though, but you can see how it may figure into sleeping.
Since THC is now known to be naturally occurring, it could be that smoking weed may eliminate the need for as much REM sleep as we would normally have. This is odd, though, as REM sleep is where the body gets the majority of it's healing and rest done (studies have found that waking someone up before REM sleep cycle yields... well... sleep deprivated insanity). If weed were to actually lower the amount of REM sleep, I think it would be noticeable, right? Well, when you quit smoking, you get intense dreams, which some attribute to the body "re upping" your natural THC levels.
Based on the fact that we do (I assume all of us here) smoke weed and still get REM sleep (as have generations upon generations before us), I don't think you have much to worry about. Heavy habitual use could produce a dependency upon weed until your body gets used to producing it's own THC again, though, but this seems to be a short-lived withdrawal symptom of VERY HEAVY users.
So, to answer your question: I do not think it inhibits REM sleep so much as our body needs -less-, or thinks it needs less. If it actually did inhibit REM sleep to a significant (scientifically speaking) degree, we would have noticed it by now. Cannabis does have ZERO toxicity and zero deaths strictly due to use (though I'm sure you could suffocate), it's actually safer than a lot of food you may consume on a daily basis.
Does unnaturally occurring THC interfere with REM sleep? Yes. How? Science doesn't seem to quiet know yet. Is it bad? It might be - but to what degree or in what way, that isn't really known. All we *really* know right now is that there is a causal effect. However, this effect does help a lot of people with over-active REM dreaming or night terrors. Perhaps this is a good thing? It was also suggested, once upon a time, that smoking reduces the lubrication in your eyes, so during REM... well... draw your own picture.
To best honest, isn't science still a bit confused about what REM sleep really is? What is the purpose of dreaming, or rapid eye movement anyway? To say that effecting dreams is good or bad assumes that you have full knowledge of a topic you can't possibly have knowledge of at all.
I suggest you look up reports on PsycINFO -- it's an amazing database with a very robust amount of research information that has been peer edited and reviewed. A lot of the info tends to be outdated when you look into drugs though, as a bulk of it was done in the 70s and was funded by the government (Read: Heavy Bias). It is important when looking up publicated research that you understand that ANY research done through a college (a lot of it) is GOVERNMENT FUNDED, STAMPED, AND REPORTED TO. There is still an agenda, but that doesn't mean all the information is bad.
Also consider that cannabis isn't made solely up of THC, but has other properties like CBD and CBN which may effect sleeping. Food for thought
nightlight
Bluelighter
if i dont smoke before bed i get horrendous nightmares
i think, its more placebo, because you get you mind into that state that you will have good dream,
but yes i do notice that i seem to dream ALOT while sleeping High,
and you said REM sleep is the body and mind healing itself, well when i get really high , beyond my tolerance, i naturally fall asleep so my body can heal and when i wake up i know i smoked too much and i know i passed out so my body could heal, thats how i feel, i feel that i was too high for reality, so my body went to bed so my mind could deal with the high
thats how i feel when i go to bed high,
Chainer
Bluelighter
^ It's not placebo.
I think you are missing the point entirely. Not to be a dick, but what you said makes very little sense. I guess I should have expect that in CD, though, lol.
I think you are missing the point entirely. Not to be a dick, but what you said makes very little sense. I guess I should have expect that in CD, though, lol.
i rarely accept any government funded study on anything health related really. too much corporate motive. when it comes to drugs, i wouldnt believe a word.
in any event, thanks chainer3k, was really helpful cuz i kind of had a similar hunch (if there is any "negative" effect, its marginal). the reason behind this post is i watched a documentary (go NOVA!) on REM sleep, and then combined it with the street myth i heard that "cannabis inhibits REM sleep." I figured this couldnt be possible, as i work in a scientific field, im a very creative person, and I have to work through a lot of complicated mathematical/engineering problems on a daily basis. REM sleep is how we organize and predict future events based on what we have recently learned. If I were to never have REM sleep, id be set back quite a bit in this dept. So this is what led me to think that cannabis completely preventing REM sleep has to be bullshit.
im in my late 20s, and i havent stopped smoking since i started when i was 14. im an extremely healthy person otherwise. i rarely remember dreams, cuz of that whole short term memory thing, but i have a pretty damn solid long term memory. however, i find it hard to believe that ive been depriving myself of REM sleep for over a decade, im a pretty sharp knife.
time for my evening toke I may repost this in advanced drug discussion, so mods may want to close this.
in any event, thanks chainer3k, was really helpful cuz i kind of had a similar hunch (if there is any "negative" effect, its marginal). the reason behind this post is i watched a documentary (go NOVA!) on REM sleep, and then combined it with the street myth i heard that "cannabis inhibits REM sleep." I figured this couldnt be possible, as i work in a scientific field, im a very creative person, and I have to work through a lot of complicated mathematical/engineering problems on a daily basis. REM sleep is how we organize and predict future events based on what we have recently learned. If I were to never have REM sleep, id be set back quite a bit in this dept. So this is what led me to think that cannabis completely preventing REM sleep has to be bullshit.
im in my late 20s, and i havent stopped smoking since i started when i was 14. im an extremely healthy person otherwise. i rarely remember dreams, cuz of that whole short term memory thing, but i have a pretty damn solid long term memory. however, i find it hard to believe that ive been depriving myself of REM sleep for over a decade, im a pretty sharp knife.
time for my evening toke
I may repost this in advanced drug discussion, so mods may want to close this.