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Can you truly respect someone who claims religion?

As long as they're not forcing their beliefs on others, they can be some of the most interesting, inspiring people to talk to.

If they're inspired by God yet they can only perceive God through the deeply flawed institution of the Church, which tells them to brainwash their children, pay tithes and disregard all contradictory notions without critical thinking, I simply find it a shame they had to pick such a terrible vessel through which to experience something so wondrous.
 
Flickering said:
* That God is this guy who created everything, and* That if you don't get down on your knees and beg his son who was nailed to a cross two milennia ago to save you, he will drop your eternal soul into a furnace and leave it there forever, but
* That he loves you, and
* That you were born deserving it anyway because your most distant great grandparents disobeyed him and ate an apple, and
* That the entire Bible is the infalliable word of God rather than a work of man, and
* That to serve his will we must all go to a man-made institution with a long history of nothing but corruption and hypocrisy, and
* That God deliberately provides us no other evidence for any of this because believing something with no rational reason to is something he considers a virtue, and
* That questioning any of this is a sin too, and
* That they need your money...
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That sounds like George Carlin... :D

Ninae means s/he didn't choose that particular version of God. (I think)

I know I am seen by some as a Christian hater but I'm not - I've met some I respect. But the majority of Religious people fail the test of their own professed beliefs. Way too many go and confess their sins and promptly go out and do them again.

But people inspired by God can be very different, although I will say such are very rarely inspired by the God of the Religions but rather by some version they have come to of their own volition - which is EXACTLY what I have said on here before. Every prophet, guru or messiah I have ever heard of has always emphasised that salvation, heaven, nirvana or whatever they call the next step, is a personal path, one between a person and whoever s/he sees as the higher beingness.

And some people achieve similar status without finding a deity at all, but simply by walking a path they see as right and just and avoiding the things that cause harm to others or self. And I see probably as many of them as I do those who find a god of their own.
 
Journyman16 said:
But people inspired by God can be very different, although I will say such are very rarely inspired by the God of the Religions but rather by some version they have come to of their own volition - which is EXACTLY what I have said on here before. Every prophet, guru or messiah I have ever heard of has always emphasised that salvation, heaven, nirvana or whatever they call the next step, is a personal path, one between a person and whoever s/he sees as the higher beingness.

And some people achieve similar status without finding a deity at all, but simply by walking a path they see as right and just and avoiding the things that cause harm to others or self. And I see probably as many of them as I do those who find a god of their own.
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Bingo.
 
Yeah I absolutely agree. To be clear my post was in reference to people who follow man-made institutions blindly and destructively. I have nothing whatsoever against people who come to their own understanding of God and/or spirituality. I'm as far from atheistic elitism as I am from religous fervour.
 
Flickering said:
it doesn't mater if they're a powerless hick
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i take offense to that... hicks have feeling too lol and you be susprised how many of them are actually godless heathens that dont believe in any of that nonsense...

IMO and hick is a term that paints a wide swath of people with one brush... its better to break it down by hill billy and redneck.... rednecks are your gun loving, bible thumping, big truck driving type of people... while hill billies are more like 50% hippy 50% redneck, they are like to live more off the land and enjoy the beauties of nature but still carry guns... theres your appalachian culture lesson for the day
 
you shouldnt stop loving and caring for someone because of his belief. his belief doesnt define a individual.
 
Ah fair enough, I'm sorry. I should say rednecks. To be honest we don't have a lot of either where I'm from, so it's just a word I've picked up.
 
Flickering said:
Ah fair enough, I'm sorry. I should say rednecks. To be honest we don't have a lot of either where I'm from, so it's just a word I've picked up.
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lol its not all its cracked up to be but id still rather live nowhere else.... most everyone keeps their nose outa other peoples bussiness... but another thing rednecks like to drink beer and are more about the pills and hill billies are way bigger pot heads... but still damn near all of em are good people and will stop to help ya out if they see ya stranded on the side of the road or if ya need help doing something, esp moving... thats why ya always gotta have a couple as friends, kinda like how ya need a black friend for certain situations lol
 
No, I don't write people off just for religiosity. They probably mean something different from what I expect from "god"...I don't expect people to just hold super-implausible views in general by default. Also, even though logical inference and strict conceptual precision are my bag, I can't demand that others use such as the sole valid way to produce knowledge.

ebola
 
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Not really, unless they're using it to support closed minded behavior like hating others or judging others, in which case I just go ahead and assume that they don't really understand the core message of religion at all.

As for the topic of what is spirituality, it's anything that pertains to spirit, whatever you conceive that to be.
 
Everybody has a belief in a Higher Power(s), and everyone is religious.
Everyone believes one of these 3:
1.There is a higher power(s) that is above them and is responsible for their creation.
2. They are the/equal to higher power and created him/herself.
3. A force (created or uncreated) of nature is the higher power that created them.
How you branch off these beliefs would be your religion.

The only folks that maybe get a pass on above are people that believe we don't really exist.
 
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@Flickering

Love it, all of it, tell your friends they are ridiculous, show them how ridiculous their 'sacred' beliefs are. Debate it out in the open, force people to arrive at uncomfortable conclusions, ones that may render much of what they have been indoctrinated with as useless. Show them the 'light' and then challenge them to continue being moral and decent people free from the guilt, coercion, and ignorance, of their former misguided religion.

The reality is MOST people are GOOD people, at least that has been my experience. religion (small r) forces you to take sides in a schoolyard fight between two (or three or five or ten) bullies that are as stupid as they act. The difference is ultimately that schoolyard fight between two morons takes place on the global stage and is waged with bullets, bombs, and chemical weapons. It entraps and enslaves people in poverty, ignorance, and hate. It creates an us vs them mentality that poisons the well for everybody.

GOD has no place in modern society, if you want your beliefs have them but not in the public sphere. No more tax breaks, political contributions, media attention, votes, rights, or anything else that suggests legitimacy. I don't care how extreme these views may seem the reality is religion is toxic and it has created and contributed to a twisted and fucked up world for too long. I would encourage everybody to examine what benefit religion has to society and at what cost, what benefit does religion provide to you personally and at what cost, and why it is so hard for people to accept the fact that we essentially exist as a consequence of chance just like all the other billions of species spread throughout the galaxy.

Anyways thats my piece, love it, hate it, I don't give a fuck
 
ANY such belief besides agnosticism is hubris.
 
methamaniac said:
Everybody has a belief in a Higher Power(s), and everyone is religious.
Everyone believes one of these 3:
1.There is a higher power(s) that is above them and is responsible for their creation.
2. They are the/equal to higher power and created him/herself.
3. A force (created or uncreated) of nature is the higher power that created them.
How you branch off these beliefs would be your religion.

The only folks that maybe get a pass on above are people that believe we don't really exist.
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or someone could be a nihilist and believe everything is completly random and has no purpose what so ever...
 
murphythecat said:
you shouldnt stop loving and caring for someone because of his belief. his belief doesnt define a individual.
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I like this. Most of the people that I know are religious and involved in a church in some way. Most of them are good. I can respect that. I don't question anyone for their beliefs. Yes religion has done nothing but cause problems since the beginning of humanity as far back as we know of. I am a white male, so should I then be held accountable for the atrocities my ancestors and fellow caucasians may have committed in the past?

Respect is earned not given.
 
L2R I thought your view of default respect and earned disrespect profoundly correct. You've given me thought for the evening to apply in many directions of my life. Thank you, sincerely, a new look on life for me. D
 
I think both respect AND disrespect are earned. I try to treat everyone with a default level of civility until they show they are worthy of one or the other. I can't recall when personally held beliefs have influenced that view, at least not until they show their beliefs are affecting others.

Mind you, I am probably not going to spend time with someone who thinks skin colour determines the worth of a person or that telling everyone else how to behave is their right. I don't think it is automatic disrespect, it's more like conflict-avoidance. :D
 
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