Can you IV phenobarbital and can it potentiate opiates?

[danmang92]

I have a bunch of pheno from my time in detox and was just bored wondering about these things....

 

[HCandKROD]

I wouldn't do it. Phenobarbital sucks for recreational use and I would be afraid of accidental overdose with or without opiate use. Good luck.

 

[pasha]

It is water soluble, and it can be used intravenously. There are some major concerns though on why it's a very bad idea to do so.

1 - binders and fillers in the tablet.
2 - extremely high risk of overdose when mixing barbiturates and opioids.
3 - phenobarbital is a dirty drug with an extremely stretched out high.

Please don't do this.

 

[Vaya]

Please don't do this.

Heed this advice, OP,

Homeless >>> BDD

 

[Venrak]

It is water soluble, and it can be used intravenously. There are some major concerns though on why it's a very bad idea to do so.

1 - binders and fillers in the tablet.
2 - extremely high risk of overdose when mixing barbiturates and opioids.
3 - phenobarbital is a dirty drug with an extremely stretched out high.

Please don't do this.

I wish there was something stronger than "extremely" we could use in this situation.

I would say IV barbs is a ludicrous idea. Man, taking them orally is super dangerous.

 

[laCster]

Hell yah it will potentiate opiates, but it will also cause you to probably overdose

 

[Toz]

Is this combination much more dangerous than benzos/alcohol and opiates?

 

[laCster]

Yes much more dangerous. Barbs are extremely dangerous which is why barbs were taken off the market for script uses in most countries and are only used as end of the line treatment in epilepsy

 

[Thorns Have Roses]

Some info on IV use, which I cannot emphasize enough should not be attempted. Ignoring the issue of fillers/binders in the pills, and that it's more dangerous than benzos in combination with opiates, consider the following.

It shouldn't even have a rush¹:

Following IV administration, the onset of action is 5 minutes for phenobarbital sodium. For IM administration, the onset of action is slightly slower. Maximal CNS depression may not occur until 15 minutes or more after IV administration."

If you shoot a dose too quickly it could cause serious issues, maybe even kill you^{2 3}:

Do not exceed max IV rate of 60 mg/min; respiratory depression, apnea and hypotension may result

Avoid rapid I.V. administration >50 mg/minute

Desirable effects should last 4-6h, but due to its half-life (50-100 hours) it can only be taken once a day. Oh, and its oral bioavailabity is like 90%.^{5 6}

Yes much more dangerous. Barbs are extremely dangerous which is why barbs were taken off the market for script uses in most countries and are only used as end of the line treatment in epilepsy

Actually they're used for a bit more than that (well, this isn't quite contemporary, but close enough), and this list neglects to mention butalbital for migraines and pentobarbital for euthanasia:

 

[laCster]

^this is true. nice chart too

i meant it as "barbs are rarely prescribed; benzos are preferred over barbs because they are much safer"

 

[Jktm]

I know anxiolysis is an indicated use for phenobarb and amobarb as well...

 

[crOOk]

I know this is an old thread, but be aware that solutions of phenobarbital are highly alkaline unless adequately buffered. Any extravasate will wreak havoc on your tissue and at high concentrations it can cause a very painful inflammatory proccess of the vein (thrombophlebitis) even without missing your shot.

While I find it entirely unspectacular on it's own it was very enjoyable when combined with levetiracetam which as the name suggests is the (-)-isomer of etiracetam. It gave me a very pleasant drunken euphoria at peroral doses of 100mg and 200mg respectively, albeit with some irritability, paradox as it may sound.
I also had a glass of wine two hours prior to the drug cocktail and a joint between administration and onset. I am not at all a fan of benzodiazepines, barbiturates or any other GABAergics (except for ethanol), but this was well worth my time!
It knocked me out cold after a few hours, despite not feeling sleepy and I awoke well-refreshed after nine hours of sleep.

300mg Phenobarbital did next to nothing other than give me an antihistaminish tiredness. With my naturally high benzodiazepine tolerance 10mg diazepam does not do anything at all for me.

 

[lowerthanlow]

I know this is an old thread, but be aware that solutions of phenobarbital are highly alkaline unless adequately buffered. Any extravasate will wreak havoc on your tissue and at high concentrations it can cause a very painful inflammatory proccess of the vein (thrombophlebitis) even without missing your shot.

While I find it entirely unspectacular on it's own it was very enjoyable when combined with levetiracetam which as the name suggests is the (-)-isomer of etiracetam. It gave me a very pleasant drunken euphoria at peroral doses of 100mg and 200mg respectively, albeit with some irritability, paradox as it may sound.
I also had a glass of wine two hours prior to the drug cocktail and a joint between administration and onset. I am not at all a fan of benzodiazepines, barbiturates or any other GABAergics (except for ethanol), but this was well worth my time!
It knocked me out cold after a few hours, despite not feeling sleepy and I awoke well-refreshed after nine hours of sleep.

300mg Phenobarbital did next to nothing other than give me an antihistaminish tiredness. With my naturally high benzodiazepine tolerance 10mg diazepam does not do anything at all for me.

Interesting. What's with all the people in this thread saying generic phenobarbital is soluble in water? Pubchem says it's not. There's the injectable sodium salt for a reason.

 

[Keif' Richards]

Fun fact, Phenobarbital (Luminol) is well-known and even studied for its propensity to induce enzymes of the P450 superfamily of enzymes. These enzymes are responsible in some way for the metabolism of nearly 50% of all documented pharmaceuticals. If you're for instance, taking Methadone a drug like Phenobarbital taken for a day or two could be enough to start making you sick and there are documented cases of folks maintained on Opioids beginning Phenobarbital treatment only to wind up in severe withdrawal a week or two into things.

Yes, the sedative action of Phenobarbital, as a Barbiturate is going to contribute to the depressive action of the Opioid and vice versa. All in all though, it's a poor choice for recreational usage. Not only due to this obvious issue of potential metabolic issues, it's a drug that takes a long time to come on, a long time to wear off, with an accompanying low-intensity high.

When I lived in Asia I would buy Pentobarbital (Nembutal) solution from the veterinarian. That was pretty cool, I guess. It still wasn't something I would call truly recreational. You do Barbiturates and you get FUCKED UP. If there is anything else in your system when you take it, you're gonna wake up without your pants and wallet. I was using them to numb myself. If that's what you're after, maybe Phenobarbital is for you, but it's not going to be "fun".

You can see for yourself. For Harm Reduction reasons, I have to say that I highly discourage anyone using Barbiturtates with Opioids. Benzodiazepines are dangerous enough and they are super-dangerous in their own right. It's very possible for something bad to happen accidentally.

 

[TimTim1993]

The only barbiturate I ever used was Butalbital in the form of Fiorecet. I can't say much in regards to Pheno but I would imagine they are similar. I mean I know Fiorecet has caffeine and Tylenol in it. But I wouldn't recommend mixing it with opiates. I mixed the Fiorecet with a shot of vodka and that one shot definitely potentiated the Butalbital.

 

[TimTim1993]

Is this combination much more dangerous than benzos/alcohol and opiates?

Yes I would say so, I took one shot of vodka while I was high on butalbital and it definitely potentiated the Butalbital. Now if I mixed benzos with one shot of vodka it would potentiate the benzo but it was stronger with Fiorecet