Can we proclaim Salvia usage as a religion?

A

AztekMyst

Greenlighter
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Jan 24, 2008
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I'm so irritated with drug laws (which I am sure all of you are). I don't want to see salvia go in my country (US). I see it as a pure entheogen without the potential for abuse. I'm in California and I have heard actual people in the legal system talking down on salvia to my face even after I told them its use for spiritual reasons. Now, I have no knowledge of law since I am pretty naive...but if I use a legal substance and integrate it into my life for spiritual reasons, do I not have the right to continue using it once it becomes illegal? I mean, the native americans get to use their shit...if they don't let me/us, would it not be discrimination? Can I do anything? Or is this something that us "free" americans are once again not free to do? :(
 
^Timothy Leary tried to start his own religion where taking LSD was a sacrament. Didn't work...
 
Well, that's a good point lol...would there be any difference in a synthetic drug or natural one? Probably not I guess, but ideally...
 
There is a high standard for using drugs as part of religious practice. Allowances made by U.S. law (under the Free Exercise clause of the First Amendment) for this are rare. Typically, the drug must be used as part of a "bona fide religious ceremony." This is not an easy thing to prove.
 
I'm a Hindu (Jain, specifically but most people don't know what that is) and Cannabis is often considered a plant of religious significance depending on who you ask. However, you don't see an exception for Hindus, do you?
 
See the peyote Supreme Court case. Can't recall the name.


No abuse potential? Everything has some abuse potential and I would say something as powerful Salvia would not be lowest on the list.
 
Two interesting considerations:

1. The Temple of the True Inner Light in NYC uses DPT as its sacrament. The DEA hasn't bothered them because they are no doubt afraid an unsuccessful prosecution might open the floodgates for religious use of psychedelics. It's also worth noting that DPT is not explicitly scheduled in the USA even though it could easily fall under the Analogue Act.

Temple URL http://members.tripod.com/~psychede/

2. "In the United States, the Supreme Court in 2006 upheld a preliminary injunction permitting another Brazilian church, the União do Vegetal (UDV), to use ayahuasca ritually. This decision, as the result of specific litigation involving the UDV, applies only to that group, so the legal status of ayahuasca generally remains in a gray area in that country."

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santo_Daime
 
Santo Daime isn't the same as the church you're talking about. The UDV is a seperate group with similar beliefs, however.

I do not believe that Santo Daime has any US presence.
 
^^^^ Correct. I just pulled the quote regarding the UDV decision from Wiki's Santo Daime entry. Sorry for the confusion.
 
tobala said:
Two interesting considerations:

1. The Temple of the True Inner Light in NYC uses DPT as its sacrament. The DEA hasn't bothered them because they are no doubt afraid an unsuccessful prosecution might open the floodgates for religious use of psychedelics. It's also worth noting that DPT is not explicitly scheduled in the USA even though it could easily fall under the Analogue Act.

Temple URL http://members.tripod.com/~psychede/

2. "In the United States, the Supreme Court in 2006 upheld a preliminary injunction permitting another Brazilian church, the União do Vegetal (UDV), to use ayahuasca ritually. This decision, as the result of specific litigation involving the UDV, applies only to that group, so the legal status of ayahuasca generally remains in a gray area in that country."

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santo_Daime
Click to expand...


There's an equal protection/separation of church and state case sitting there primed for a drastic weakening of the drug laws.

"Oh... it's OK to do drugs if you're a XXXX. It's just illegal for Christians, Mormons, Muslims, and Atheists."


Thought crime anyone?
 
AztekMyst said:
I'm so irritated with drug laws (which I am sure all of you are). I don't want to see salvia go in my country (US). I see it as a pure entheogen without the potential for abuse. I'm in California and I have heard actual people in the legal system talking down on salvia to my face even after I told them its use for spiritual reasons. Now, I have no knowledge of law since I am pretty naive...but if I use a legal substance and integrate it into my life for spiritual reasons, do I not have the right to continue using it once it becomes illegal? I mean, the native americans get to use their shit...if they don't let me/us, would it not be discrimination? Can I do anything? Or is this something that us "free" americans are once again not free to do? :(
Click to expand...

Listen up. There are laws protecting certain rights of Native Americans which is for whatever reason (take a pick) unique to only their culture here in the USA. (we did take their land, after all)

You can not legally partake in a sacrament if it goes against the laws of the country, whether or not it "fits into your life". This would be like saying Michael Jackson is free to have child pornography because it "fits his style".

Live in the country, abide by the rules. If you don't like it, get involved with politics , vote, or PLEASE, PLEASE... do anything but sit on your ass, smoking pot and complaining about it.


BTW- Salvia is a drug who's long term effects have not been thoroughly examined. It could cause parkinsons in later age. It could cause cancer. Who knows?

It doesn't feel like a feeling that a normal ,productive member of American society should be experiencing. If you think you'd fit in feeling like this-- go live with people in the Amazon or somewhere without electricity.

center, please see the sticky post on the front page of Legal Discussion containing the forum guidelines. Judgmental posts are not allowed. I'm leaving this post up in order to let the OP know a type of reaction he will face when exploring whether a given substance could be taken for religious purposes and thus be Constitutionally protected---which is a perfectly legitimate question and worth asking. Telling him to leave the country if he doesn't like it is a response that could be given to anyone who wants to change any aspect of our society. It would be better to address the specific issue being raised. Thanks, Johnny1.
 
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Kalash said:
There's an equal protection/separation of church and state case sitting there primed for a drastic weakening of the drug laws.
Click to expand...
Exactly why the DEA is leaving The Temple of the True Inner Light alone. And even if DPT should become explicitly scheduled, I think they will continue to leave the Temple alone.

It would be interesting if a citizen "complained" about the Temple's use of a "dangerous drug" and "demanded" that the feds prosecute. Kind of like a setup to establish just such a drug law-weakening precedent that you speak of, Kalash.

Then again, it could backfire if the court decision went against the Temple. So for now it remains a Mexican stand-off. :\
 
Kalash said:
"Oh... it's OK to do drugs if you're a XXXX. It's just illegal for Christians, Mormons, Muslims, and Atheists."
Click to expand...

Weren't Christians allowed to use wine as part of their sacrament, even during Prohibition?

To the OP: I think you'd face a significant problem convincing people that you were part of a religion if you only started talking about the religion once salvia was criminalised. Seems like you'd have a better chance if you had an established religion, established rites, beliefs, ceremonies - and a group of people, not just you.
 
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