Can u plug using toilet paper?

[broagan]

better call a plumber

 

[moe.ron]

I agree with hammer. Not homophobic at all, just like the fact that I dont like to IM or IV ketmine doesnt mean Im afraid of needles. With most psychedelics I just really prefer oral route because it has always suited me well enough. Cutting half the dose out always sounds nice accept that the several times I tried rectal with various 2c-x it also cut duration in half. Idk there is no logical reason for me to prefer oral accept that I really like measuring out the dose, throwing it on a parachute and swallowing it. No trouble, no mess, just wait for the effects and have a gentler transition with longer effects. Just preference. However if your gonna shove it might as well do it right

 

[psood0nym]

Of course there are sometimes reasons to use other methods of administration than plugging (e.g. your in a public place, you have hemorrhoids, etc.), but what logical or health reason or other defensible reason is there to NEVER plug if you're OK with skipping first-pass metabolism already and you're concerned with the avoiding the problems I listed (nasal burn/drip/damage to sense of smell with long term use (anosmia)/insoluble pill binders in muscle tissue or veins causing internal damage/nasal congestion, etc., all of which are extremely common issues with insufflation or injection that are regularly complained about but aren't issues with plugging)?

Of course there are innumerable reasons not to choose one particular method in certain specific situations that preclude using that method (nose is plugged, you don't want to make a track mark/you're going to take a shit soon). Why would I ever argue that there aren't? The argument is against people who NEVER plug without giving valid reasons when in fact they care about avoiding the issues I listed with other ROAs. The issues with other methods are so much more extreme and so much more in number than with plugging that it's ridiculous to argue that plugging isn't clearly superior in many situations where you're looking for higher bioavailability (esp. with pills or potent plant extracts).

I also said another reason people never plug when they're OK with skipping first pass metabolism via insufflation or injection might be that they're insecure with their own body, so to make a post assuming that being a homophobe is the ONLY reason I was arguing people who insufflate or inject choose never to plug in my post is to arbitrarily isolate one section of my post and treat it as the whole argument. I also said "like a jackass homophobe," so even if I hadn't mentioned insecurity with one's body as an alternate reason, being a homophone should not be read as an exclusive reason, it should be read as an example of a reason. If I said "round like a basketball" you wouldn't assume I thought roundness was exclusive to basketballs, would you? Not to mention it was followed by "Real men take it in the ass." How serious can the preceding sentence be taken to be?

The question I'm challenging people to answer is this: "What are realistic and valid reasons for a healthy person to NEVER plug given they are concerned with the problems with insufflation and injection I listed?" Embarrassment or feeling uncomfortable with it emotionally or feeling gay doing it are not reasons for excluding a method with so many clear advantages in so many cases, they're examples of personal weaknesses a responsible and rational human being seeks to get the hell over.

 

[Raven SWE]

Why don't I plug?
1. My friends don't do it, so it has never been the "normal" way for me to take drugs.
2. You can pop a pill or chute on the dancefloor at a rave, kind of hard to be shoving stuff up your ass without anyone noticing Cubicles are dodgy which is why I don't like doing powders in clubs, I am massively paranoid about getting kicked out. (I tend to only do drugs at raves, which are always very far from where I live)
3. I actually enjoy snorting. I enjoy it a LOT. That dirty feeling, it's a non sugar coated way of doing drugs, honest and pure.
4. Finger up the ass with no gloves = Shit under fingernails, very very difficult to remove the smell even with generous scrubbing, I know this thanks to my ex girlfriend's anal tendencies.

Enough reasons for me never to plug, I don't do hard drugs alone at home so the above always apply.

 

[psood0nym]

^1. Conformity isn't a reason, it's a social habit to be aware of and resisted when it isn't advantageous.
2. This was mentioned already as a particular situation in which plugging may be untenable, it's hardly realistic to say it's unavoidable, though. Such a situation is easily circumvented (plus sticking a gelatin capsule with pure powder in it in your ass in public bathroom stalls is an entirely workable method for most drugs, so this really isn't a situation that necessarily excludes plugging).
3. OK, enjoy the drip, burn, clogged nose and potential loss or reduction of your sense of smell if you use drugs this way chronically. A fetish is not a logical or health reason, either. Is it rational to get off to women in high heels? It's a conditioned response that would've likely been the same had you always plugged or injected instead all those times you chose to snort drugs.
4. Use a lubed oral syringe or super cheap disposable gloves that you toss out, either in private or in a public restroom -- it's a problem easily solved.

I would recommend doing drugs at home before going out to help reduce your chances of being kicked out of a club or arrested (or having white crusty powder below your nostrils if a cop happens to look at you) . Absolutely never using drugs alone, not even before you go out with friends or in privacy is an extraordinarily rare circumstance. Not to mention using amps or opiates this way is less effective, and 2Cs burn like hell. Honestly, your list almost sounds like an attempt at formulating contrived examples unrealistic for most everybody's circumstances to defy the criteria I listed as reasons for plugging. Your reasons seem to merely be contingent on a snorting fetish and a refusal to give any effort to easily averting certain situations (always being around friends and not ever being able to use drugs at home in privacy). None of them are the reasons I asked for.

It's fine if these are your reasons (I'm not looking to put you down or anything), but I do mean to show they aren't the reasons I asked for if that's what you intended them to be, and to show that they don't help you get any higher or avoid all the problems I listed with insufflation. Though it seems like you must have intended them to defy the reasons I've given, as this is a thread about sticking 2C-E up one's ass in toilet paper, and only since I've posted in reaction to Splitz' post has the topic of reasons for plugging come up. So why bother giving them if that's not what you intended?

Not homophobic at all, just like the fact that I dont like to IM or IV ketmine doesnt mean Im afraid of needles. With most psychedelics I just really prefer oral route because it has always suited me well enough. Cutting half the dose out always sounds nice accept that the several times I tried rectal with various 2c-x it also cut duration in half.

These are good reasons for using orally, except for the fact that all the reasons I've given for using rectally have to do with methods that are concerned with with increased bioavailability, not oral administration (which typically has the lowest bioavailability and so it's discounted). Read my posts over and you'll see that's the case. You're post isn't a counter argument that agrees with The Hebrew Hammer at all, it's a straw man argument. Plus ketamine is not as effective rectally as nasally, and lasts longer than IM and has different qualitative effects that way, so it's a poor counter example. Try making the same argument with pill-form amphetamines or opiates or 2Cs -- the drugs I mentioned as superior to intranasal administration when plugged. The qualitative effects are similar or have greater bioavailability rectally and the duration is similar, but it lacks most all the drawbacks of nasal administration (which I've gone over and over again at length). DMT and ketamine I freely admit are superior nasally than rectally because of their increased bioavailability when that's something you care about (the condition I've already stated you need to be concerned about to accept my argument), but these are the extreme minority of drugs for which this is the case.

im just trying to say that some people have different personal preferences.

To make such a strong claim as "you're pathetically and irrationally insecure with your own body and worried what fools might think like a homophobic jackass" based solely on ones personal preference about plugging is pretty ignorant.

Almost as ignorant as the people who scoff at plugging as being "gay"

My argument is against people who have NEVER tried it and refuse. How can you know if rectal use is not your personal preference for a drug if you haven't tried the drug that way? If you've tried it and prefer another method for whatever reason (such as the perfectly good, though inapplicable, reason given by moe.rone like preferring the longer duration of oral), fine. But in many common circumstances there are very good reasons for trying it rectally over insufflation or injection that should not be ignored (all the reasons I've mentioned again and again). You seem to be ignoring what I've said to attack an argument that wasn't made but is easier to argue against. You need to say why the reasons for holding a personal preference against rectal administration are better reasons than the ones I've given such that you NEVER try rectal administration.

Also, I made regarding the quote in question: "you're pathetically and irrationally insecure with your own body and worried what fools might think like a homophobic jackass," the following statement (in post #23):

Not to mention it was followed by "Real men take it in the ass." How serious can the preceding sentence be taken to be?

I thought the humor of it was obvious before having to explain it in post 23. That is to say, it was rhetorical, to make the point of how silly it is not to even attempt plugging by giving examples of silly reasons for not plugging. That's why it was followed immediately with an ironic statement about real men "taking it in the ass"-- it's just the common technique of having non-literal meaning emerge from a larger context. You see how "take it in the ass" is an unexpected thing to follow "real men" in a sentence, and how that irony makes sense following such a hyperbolic statement (how it serves as the punchline to the joke)? I'm sure this sounds condescending, but honestly I didn't think I'd need to spell it out, so ... sorry?

 

[helium-4]

Of course there are sometimes reasons to use other methods of administration than plugging (e.g. your in a public place, you have hemorrhoids, etc.), but what logical or health reason or other defensible reason is there to NEVER plug if you're OK with skipping first-pass metabolism already and you're concerned with the avoiding the problems I listed (nasal burn/drip/damage to sense of smell with long term use (anosmia)/insoluble pill binders in muscle tissue or veins causing internal damage/nasal congestion, etc., all of which are extremely common issues with insufflation or injection that are regularly complained about but aren't issues with plugging)?

Of course there are innumerable reasons not to choose one particular method in certain specific situations that preclude using that method (nose is plugged, you don't want to make a track mark/you're going to take a shit soon). Why would I ever argue that there aren't? The argument is against people who NEVER plug without giving valid reasons when in fact they care about avoiding the issues I listed with other ROAs. The issues with other methods are so much more extreme and so much more in number than with plugging that it's ridiculous to argue that plugging isn't clearly superior in many situations where you're looking for higher bioavailability (esp. with pills or potent plant extracts).

I also said another reason people never plug when they're OK with skipping first pass metabolism via insufflation or injection might be that they're insecure with their own body, so to make a post assuming that being a homophobe is the ONLY reason I was arguing people who insufflate or inject choose never to plug in my post is to arbitrarily isolate one section of my post and treat it as the whole argument. I also said "like a jackass homophobe," so even if I hadn't mentioned insecurity with one's body as an alternate reason, being a homophone should not be read as an exclusive reason, it should be read as an example of a reason. If I said "round like a basketball" you wouldn't assume I thought roundness was exclusive to basketballs, would you? Not to mention it was followed by "Real men take it in the ass." How serious can the preceding sentence be taken to be?

The question I'm challenging people to answer is this: "What are realistic and valid reasons for a healthy person to NEVER plug given they are concerned with the problems with insufflation and injection I listed?" Embarrassment or feeling uncomfortable with it emotionally or feeling gay doing it are not reasons for excluding a method with so many clear advantages in so many cases, they're examples of personal weaknesses a responsible and rational human being seeks to get the hell over.

QFmotherfin`T

I wish I would remember to go out and buy a few more oral syringes (plugging and measuring). Seems I always forget just how awesome plugging is as a route of administration. Higher bioavaliability, potential for less body load, extend duration (in comparison to insufflation, smoked and IM/IV), and less damage from actual consumption. Yeah, some times it can be inconvenient to plug, no one can deny that. I mean, its probably not the most comfortable or easy thing to do while trying to make it to a concert. However, the advantages are there and they stand out. If you can't devote 5 minutes (or less) to weighing out your drug, dissolving (this might extend the time) the substance, and inserting it into your rectum, then I don't know how you expect to have time to chop up a fat line, then blow the line (ok maybe making lines is a minute or two quicker, but it really isn't much more of time burner). It didn't take me but 3 minutes to plug 150mg of Molly, and by god was that worth the come up 30-45 minute rush similar to snorting, only with the extra benefit of making 150mg more potent than when snorting, not to mention more a extended duration.

I know people who just don't like the idea of sticking anything up there, not because they think it is gay, but just because it's been ingrained into their head that, that's not where drugs go. Its rather sad, because I know these people could appreciate the advantages if they actually investigated it.

Gotta try and plug some K some time soon. I've never had an oral experience, but with the prospect of having the same "lower peak" (erowid) experience as with oral, but with an extended duration, I don't see why I'd mess with oral. I could see it being a good way to combo with a psychedelic. You can avoid snorting something that might irritate while tripping, as well as being able to avoid any preparation during the the immersive drug experience, while potentially still primarily psychedelic space. Though it might also be a good launching pad for bumps of k to fine tune where you really wanna be. I Could also see it combing extremely well with a ++ level dose of DXM, with the rectal k being administered 30 minutes before the DXM peak. At the hour and 30 minute most nausea subsides from (from taking the DXM) and it would be smooth sailing from that point.

 

[The Hebrew Hammer]

I thought the humor of it was obvious before having to explain it in post 23. That is to say, it was rhetorical, to make the point of how silly it is not to even attempt plugging by giving examples of silly reasons for not plugging. That's why it was followed immediately with an ironic statement about real men "taking it in the ass"-- it's just the common technique of having non-literal meaning emerge from a larger context. You see how "take it in the ass" is an unexpected thing to follow "real men" in a sentence, and how that irony makes sense following such a hyperbolic statement (how it serves as the punchline to the joke)? I'm sure this sounds condescending, but honestly I didn't think I'd need to spell it out, so ... sorry?


Im sorry, that i misintepreted your post, especially the part that used humor to recap your whole argument.

I thought you were being serious because even though the words are funny. They ARE your argument.

Also, you are now narrowing this argument to one different from the begining, or at least now you have clarified that you are describing people in a VERY SPECIFIC situation, in a very general way.

As every reason I have provided to not prefer plugging has simply had a response of something along the lines of

"well of course if your in THAT situation, but I am only concerned with this situation, and only with people in this situation that are concerned with these issues"

So in other words, you are saying that when you said this

"No drip tasting nasty and being swallowed and wasted, no burn or less burn than insufflation (esp. 2C's), no clogged nose later or sniffling and white powder crusting up around your nasal openings telling everyone you've been snorting shit, higher bioavailability than insufflation for most drugs (amps and opiates esp.) and much higher bioavailability than oral for almost all drugs, faster onset than oral, and the product doesn't need to be water soluble or pure or filtered like it should with IM or IV administration. What's not to like about plugging unless you're pathetically and irrationally insecure with your own body and worried what fools might think like a homophobic jackass? Real men take it in the ass. "

which was your initial argument, which doesnt mention these specific situations or specific concerns that one must have in order for this statement to apply to them, I was just a dumb ass for not knowing all the implied specifics of your argument?

Your argument simply said "whats not to like about plugging" and I told you, yet you reply by changing your argument, and attacking my intelligence, when you are the one leaving out IMPORTANT info about the basis of your argument until later on, then try to be condescending about it, like I should just KNOW what you meant.

Also, there must be some negative aspects of plugging, if it were truly the best way to consume most substances, I would imagine the hospitals would use it a lot more.

 

[psood0nym]

You're still misinterpreting me. I'm going to say many of the same thing repeatedly now to make sure it's clear.

In post #15 (before any of your other posts), I did clearly state "but that's hardly a reason why plugging 2C-E isn't better than insufflion or oral route if you care about all the reasons I listed."(wanting to increase bioavailabilty, avoiding clogged noses, less burn, not wanting white crystals around your nostrils while in public or around cops showing everyone you've been snorting drugs, not needing to filter when you use pills, etc., in post #7).

So by listing those reasons beforehand and making them contingent on caring I imply specific situations where rectal use is clearly the superior route, and that's clearly part of the argument (why would I choose to IM pure 2C-E like I said I did in my very first post if it didn't believe their were conditions when other routes are perfectly reasonable?). How could the joke be the whole argument? You say I didn't, but I did make evident the specific conditions under which I was making the argument PRIOR to you're post accusing me of being "Almost as ignorant as the people who scoff at plugging as being 'gay." If you don't see that read on.

I was just stressing the point that just because someone doesnt want to plug a substance doesnt mean they ONLY dont want to because they are a homophobic person.

Again, I also mentioned insecurity with one's body as another reason for resisting plugging in the very same sentence in addition to homophobia, yet you ignored the fact that giving multiple reasons is a cue that one is providing examples of various possible reasons (in this case the silliest ones). You ignored the other reason and read the sentence as exclusively stating homophobia is the only reason I was arguing that anybody doesn't plug. Not to mention all the examples I gave where plugging isn't necessarily the clearly superior method by citing insufflated DMT or my IMing pure 2C-E also made the interpretation that I was saying homophobia is the only reason people don't plug insensible. Why? It's because those other reasons I gave not to plug have nothing to do with homophobia, so how can I be saying homophobia is the ONLY reason not to plug, what reason would there be to stress homophobia isn't the only reason?!

All of these things indicate early on in this thread that I was open to multiple reasons for not plugging, and taken together with all the advantages I listed for plugging, the only people I could be criticizing are the one's who refuse to try plugging at all during in the circumstances it's clearly advantageous. That my argument only applies to those who never try plugging is a condition not stated explicitly in my earlier posts, it's true, but it's one that's strongly implied if not inferred because it's the only way everything stated in those earlier posts can go together coherently. The specific situations and specific people you're telling me I'm changing my argument in these later posts to address were already implied in the earlier posts.

Here's why: I can't state other reasons not to plug and simultaneously hold homophobia is the only reason not to plug; I cannot say insecurity with one's body is a reason not to plug and mean exclusively that homophobia is the only reason not to plug -- I thought this would be visible as clear contradiction, and so any interpretation of what I was saying would certainly be guided away from concluding that I'm saying homophobia is the only reason for not plugging (as that would be an obvious contradiction). If I can't be saying homophobia is the only reason for not plugging, and I AM saying "if you care about" the reasons I gave for plugging over other methods there's strong reason to plug, and additionally I'm saying I realize there are circumstances where those reasons to plug don't apply, then all together I must be saying it's silly to never attempt plugging under circumstance where it has so many clear advantages. It's implied that people who refuse to try plugging under specific circumstances where plugging is greatly superior to other ROAs are my targets even before I state so explicitly later (again, didn't think I'd have to spell it out). Most everything I said in my later posts can be derived from a thoughtful reading of the earlier ones. The later posts really don't change much, they just spell out what wasn't deduced in the first place.

But you're right about some of what you're saying. I was responding to three posts at the same time in my last post, starting with Raven SWE, and responded to one of yours as if it came at around the same time as SWE's. That was a mistake. I guess I could blame it on the morphine, alcohol and ketamine, but it was a mistake nevertheless, so sorry about that. I think it was partly because you made two posts in a row between two of my posts instead of editing your first, which made me think in the post between them I had made a further point, but it was in fact another poster's writing.

But again, even despite that mistake, none of the additional content written as part of that mistake was needed for you to figure out what I essentially really meant (what you say I didn't tell you is all contained in a thoughtful reading of my earlier posts, just not strung together blatantly in a single post until now). It was all essentially there by the end of post #15. Despite your insistence it was my whole argument, even a literal interpretation of the joke sentence clearly cannot be the whole argument given everything stated before it or even by simple appeal to what's stated in the entirety of the sentence itself (i.e. being uncomfortable with one's body is the other reason in the sentence itself that precludes my meaning that homophobia can be the only reason).

Sorry if I was condescending, but in addition to all this you also made an extremely off target analogy and then tried explaining the analogy with "dick burns" and some wildly ill-conceived notion of what sexual stimulatory efficiency is. I get frustrated when I put effort into posts and then repeatedly see evidence that what I'm saying is ignored or extraordinarily misinterpreted. And so this is my final attempt. I'm done with this thread

 

[The Hebrew Hammer]

when you said "unless you're pathetically and irrationally insecure with your own body AND worried what fools might think like a homophobic jackass" I thought you meant it as one specific instance, AND, not OR, sorry for the confusion.

Anyways, ive never been in the exact specific situations you are discussing, so I cant really weigh in on this issue now that I understand what you are actually discussing.

 

[Splitz]

I'm not reading through all of this... just so you know I don't especially DISlike the idea of putting things in my bum, I just wanted to know if the advantages made it worth it.

How things got onto wanking god only knows.

 

[The Hebrew Hammer]

rofl

 

[PryingOpenMy3rdEye]

To the poster above, truth is plugging is gay let alone damn gross. Why the hell would you shove something up your ass when you can just swallow the damn thing? And I'm not even a homophobe yet I don't like the idea of just sticking my damn hand up my ass just to get high what's the point. Fags.

 

[IamMe90]

To the poster above, truth is plugging is gay let alone damn gross. Why the hell would you shove something up your ass when you can just swallow the damn thing? And I'm not even a homophobe yet I don't like the idea of just sticking my damn hand up my ass just to get high what's the point. Fags.

Yeah you're not a homophobe at all.

what you are is pretty fucking retarded and illogical.

oh wait, and a latent, insecure homophobe as well.

 

[Godzilla]

^No drip tasting nasty and being swallowed and wasted, no burn or less burn than insufflation (esp. 2C's), no clogged nose later or sniffling and white powder crusting up around your nasal openings telling everyone you've been snorting shit, higher bioavailability than insufflation for most drugs (amps and opiates esp.) and much higher bioavailability than oral for almost all drugs, faster onset than oral, and the product doesn't need to be water soluble or pure or filtered like it should with IM or IV administration. What's not to like about plugging unless you're pathetically and irrationally insecure with your own body and worried what fools might think like a homophobic jackass? Real men take it in the ass.

Lmfao. That is a classic bl quote on plugging. Someone please make this the first read on plugging any substance. U rule. And no I'm not gay.

 

[Godzilla]

What is psoodynyms thought on plugging LSD. I get some serious diarrhea from oral LSD. I get insane body load from 2ci oral. Tried 2ci rectal and it was magically clean and way I.mean way better. I then tried mdma rectal and have to say there is a better effect also. But 2ci rectal is fuckin awesome. I even renamed 2ci.
Pirates booty it was just meant for that roa .

 

[|>R()|)!G/-\|_]

By side effects, im reffering to dick burn, pulled pubes , scratches etc....

Oh my gosh... How do you jerk off?!

 

[greenmeanies]

godzilla: as long as you douche beforehand, you should be able to plug lsd okay i would assume.

it's not a very documented ROA for that drug though, so the bioavailability might not be much different from oral/sublingual. then again, your rectum might be irritated immediately by some kind of receptor effect (most people report little to no gastric problems from oral LSD)

 

[Godzilla]

The people I dose with have no gastric problems but I am some freak of nature..i have some serious problems..either. I'm gonna try plugging it or I need to find something that stops or blocks that catacholamine surge to my stomach. Any suggestions. I have access to just about anything.

 

[allium]

Recent discussion is more like a discussion between open person and homophobes trying to find "objective" reasons for not putting something in their asses.
Just kidding, of course.

Plugging has its pros and (indeed) cons. I don't understand how people can write so long posts about almost nothing.

 

[helium-4]

godzilla: as long as you douche beforehand, you should be able to plug lsd okay i would assume.

it's not a very documented ROA for that drug though, so the bioavailability might not be much different from oral/sublingual. then again, your rectum might be irritated immediately by some kind of receptor effect (most people report little to no gastric problems from oral LSD)

I think I remember posts from years ago where Jamshyd was promoting or commenting on rectal administration of LSD. I believe he said the effects were almost two fold consuming orally.

Just some food for thought.