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Can the soul die?

qwe said:
my working definition: one part of it includes the section of cognition (thoughts feelings memories etc) that is "experienced."
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This is the working definition I usually go with (TBH, I find the concept of the "soul" to carry too much semantic baggage to work with, usually).

Can it die? Well, by definition, we can't figure this out, for 'we' won't be around to experience its death.

aaaaaaazzzzzzzaaaaaaa said:
no, i don't describe the soul as consciousness. consciousness implies reflection (self-awareness), for which, as you describe in your analogy, a duality of active-passive is needed. in other words, something other to yourself is needed to reflect yourself back to yourself, therefor making it your own.
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But what of when the self reflects back on itself? What of this division that is at once not division? A lot of what you say subsequently holds great resonance, but I'm wondering what the emergence of self-reflection establishes the existence of.

ebola
 
^ well nothing really. but what is 'nothing' other then 'no-thing'. in other words, self-reflection establishes both the (unified, delineated) self and its immediate division as reflection. both the unification into self, and the division into re-flection appear to be immediate, and are artificially held in the mind as postulations of two contradictory absolutes which both exist and not exist by consequence of each other. its an archetypical paradox, and other, ever more aptly named paradoxes form the precondition that allows for a certain intended discours or certain nuancing, this or that light of thinking/perspective. the more of them you can hold in your mind at once, the smarter you are, at least in philosophy :) any such a 'singular-duality' forms a limit of consciousness. the idea is to find an apt one and expand it to hold in place/thought and delineate what you're trying to say/research. as such, they both invite and end thought (prevents us from getting lost). for a cynic, it doesn't say much, other then 1 establishes 2 and 2 establishes 1, we just run in circles, its a very very mad world =D

at this point Heidegger would reverently whisper "it beckons in silence"
 
ok so the self has to have something else to reflect back on the self. the mind and self are seperate... what we think of as the self is the soul but in all actuality its just the body as a whole system (brain, heart, lungs, liver, etc.). people get the self confused with the soul because of how the body resonates with the brain. the soul, being something we cannot describe or imagine, cannot exist until something can become aware of it. something that does not exist cannot die
 
well yes, the soul would be that unspeakable, ultimate identity of singularity that is only divided because of the identification with otherness it is drawn to/chooses. hence good and evil, birth and death, enter the scene. then you can start all sorts of interesting speculating as to the relation of an individual soul (remaining) severed off/existing besides a 'God soul'/ singularity, or alternatively, its return/diffusion into an unspeakable singularity. or both. somehow =D
 
i think we're trying to make the soul more complex than it is which just complicates things. i think it just IS. i cant begin to describe it in our tongue. i like to think of it as an interpreter for code (i think i may have already used this example but idc) and it's our very essence - it interacts directly with the code(the everythingness) and our 5 senses are just an extension of our soul and it's interpretation of the code. imagine the code in a different universe where we have 7 entirely different senses lol. but then again you could just replace "soul" with "brain" and it'd still work. i think i'll just stick with "is" to describe it, i'd really hate for this thread to convert me back to athiest lol. you know what, maybe i'm looking at it wrong, maybe the brain is the interpreter and the soul is the code.

i like how u throw the word "singularity" in there. i understand the big bang was supposed to have been caused by a singularity, however i'm not sure what it means exactly. (i'd wikipedia it but even wiki's description is too confusing - so please try to explain what you mean?)
 
but taking out the complexity takes all the fun out of it =D talking about the soul is like one of those topics where you can let speculation run any way you like, and be left with a kind of wonder and surprise as to what you come up with

the word 'singularity' is in many cases a technical concept that depends on and functions within a discours where it derives a large part of its meaning from its coherence inside the discours. i'm using it rather loosely here, but same as everywhere else, it derives from the framework i have been building in my posts this thread. in short, a singularity is a hypothetical state, a moment of total or absolute oneness. which cannot, for all the reasons above, be held in the imagination as clearly and well-defined as one would like to. a singularity is formed/experienced/pointed at by the collapse of the polar opposites the mind uses to define, order, and thus seperate things in order to hold them before itself. a singularity always remains transcendent to the normal realm or equilibrium of experience/thought. one could suppose that for instance, by switching a polar opposite ever more rapidly until the poles come that close to eachother that the definitive line between them blurs and ultimately collapses, a 'leap' over an 'event horizon' (of sorts) is effectively established. this leap defies the logic and explanation from within the existing framework (for that served to define the polar opposites as separate), transcending itself into a new equilibrium relative to said framework. it is only in hindsight of the event, that we can trace an explanation 'from the outside in', from the (newly) reached 'externality' (relative to the initial framework), back to the internality of the framework that was initially given.

examples include, but are not limited to: the collapse of the subject-object distinction on psychedelics, should it happen completely, resulting in a mystical experience of 'Oneness', the mathematical leap from 0.999999... to 1, a paradigm shift in science, having an 'a-ha erlebnis' in philosophy, in geometry; the transition from a point to a line, or expanding a point into a circle, the general life-experience of 'coming full-circle', experiencing a deja-vu, an exponentially growing nuclear chain reaction collapsing on itself and Zordon from the power rangers
 
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sonicGroove

High Yogi said:
No, the soul cannot die. The soul is transcendental to both the mind and the body. In the Bhagavad-Gita, which is the direct word of god, Lord Shri Krishna, He states that:

"Those with the vision of eternity can see that the soul is transcendental, eternal and beyond the modes of material nature. In spite of his contact with the material body, O Arjuna, he is not doing anything, nor is he entangled." (Bhagavad-gita, ch.13, line 32.)

"Never was there a time when i did not exist, nor you, nor all these kings; nor in the future shall any of us cease to be" ( Bhagavad-gita, ch. 2, kube 12)

"That which pervades the entire body is indestructible. No one is able to destroy the imperishable soul" ( Bhagavad gita, ch. 2, line 17)

"For thew soul there is never birth, nor death. Nor, having once been, does he ever cease to be. He is unborn, eternal, ever existing, undying and primeval. He is not slain when the body is slain" (bhagavad gita ch 2, line 20)

"The soul can never be cut into pieces by any weapon, nor can he be burned by fire, nor moistened by water, nor withered by the wind.

This individual soul is unbreakable and insoluble, and can be neither burned nor dried. He is everlasting, all pervading, unchangeable, immovable and eternally the same" (bhagavad gita, ch 2. lines 23-24)


I hope that helps :)
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^yeah that is most helpful...

left handshake
This is a memory ?

~
It is all so timely and arranged, everything so in its place that neither time nor space exists, you can be anywhere all at once anytime as Krishna, I like to think, dont insist on a "good one" that is a common theme everywhere. Like a record, the waves have been made it takes time to move with them .

:)
 
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Take a few too many ecstasy pills and it will rip your soul right out. No more life enjoyment for years
 
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