Mental Health Can Suboxone help depression?

[Cream Gravy?]

As a self-medicating user I'd say opioids of varying sorts are the best anti-depressants. I'd choose methadone if I had to pick one (duration+lack of side-effects) as my tolerance doesn't rapidly increase, it doesn't need to be taken daily, and it COMPLETELY nips depression in the bud.

But most people think opioids+daily=NO so Idk... but I'd be on methadone daily if I could choose to for depression at a very low dose. Bupre does alright but has too many side-effects ime.

 

[Poppydog]

I definitely see your point of view. It's always your decision whether or not you take antidepressants so it's up to you. My antidepressant medication has literally saved my life, no regrets in taking it. I've been on it for 10 years and might think of weaning off it in a few years time. But for now I am super grateful for it.

If it saved your life, i can see why you would be grateful. I appreciate the weight of that.
Has there been downsides tho? Do you feel like it has meant you are less willing to grapple with existential, emotional, spiritual, or religious issues?

 

[negrogesic]

Might be considered as a last resort, at under 1mg, when all else fails.

I've taken a host of antidepressants over the years and I'm not sure I ever needed it. Hard to say.

Opioids can have pronounced antidepressant qualities. Methadone had particularly strong antidepressant effect I thought. I could enjoy the simple things in life. Eating, sleeping, watching stupid TV shows that my normal, edgy, critical self won't let me watch now. It was nice. Never been comfortable in my own skin really, so it felt nice. I remember the first time I took morphine at 16. I was fighting with my girlfriend and took some late at night and went to watch TV. Felt peaceful, went to bed, sleep like a baby, and woke up comfortably to a beautiful, sunny California day. I was instantly hooked. Point being, if you are someone like me with a likely under functioning opioid system, opioids work well.

Of course they are tremendously addictive and no physician will prescribe an opioid for depression. Although interestingly enough, the pharmaceutical antidepressant tianeptine, which structurally resembles many other serotonergic tricyclic antidepressants, has actually little serotonergic activity and its antidepressant effect largely stems from its opioid activity. I do not recommend tianeptine however if you have an opioid problem in the past, it is very addictive when taken in higher doses.

In the end i would avoid buprenorphine for depression unless its also being used to treat opioid use disorder concurrently or if the depression is highly treatment resistant and many other options have been exhausted.

 

[n3ophy7e]

If it saved your life, i can see why you would be grateful. I appreciate the weight of that.
Has there been downsides tho? Do you feel like it has meant you are less willing to grapple with existential, emotional, spiritual, or religious issues?

To be honest, yes, because I am mostly asymptomatic now, getting therapy is not a priority.

 

[Kellsee]

You do whatever is the most effective at helping you maintain the stability required for you to establish quality in your life. Asking for the advice of others will usually only leave you holding yourself accountable to shit you are not even capable of. Especially when it involves suboxone because it relates to addiction. Addiction is the only term thats defined by the option of multiple choice. Everyone basically gets to chose what it means to them and most of them dont even know what they are talking about unless theyve walked thru the valley of the shadow of death themselves. Good luck to you and I hope you find peace and happiness

 

[plumbus-nine]

Would you guys say bupe is a different / stronger antidepressant than morphine (or kratom / tramadol - both bad examples because hitting many receptors). I was on bupe years ago when I started substitution but felt nothing beneficial from it like the acute antidepressant and anxiolytic effects of morphine. Yet the latter made me seriously depressed after a while on it, my theory is that it's the hormone suppression which leads to fatigue and depression, if this is the case then it would be treatable but both, the suppression on its own and hormonal supplementation have long term consequences. Bupe appears to suppress too unfortunately, maybe less so than morphine, but more than kratom. Possibly this is irrelevant for women who don't plan to get pregnant, but not sure. A friend (f) takes much more morphine than I ever did and get only slight lethargy if anything at all, after many months on it.

In retrospection the time on bupe wasn't too bad, I see a possibility for it to be kind of reverse antidepressant. One just ceases to think so much in negative stuff and emotions instead which lead to more stability instead of an acute mood lift which will eventually fade if one fails to/can't make the relevant changes in life and situation.

I'd definitely suggest to check your hormones (testosteron, prolactin, estradiol, thyroxin etc) before and regularly when on opioids, for to do what's necessary and not to slip into depression again. My prolactin was 3x the max value and T 1/3 of what I should have in my age. Luteinizing hormone and folicule stimulant super low. This after some days off any opioids, so the recovery takes time and supplementation is definitely recommended when you want to stay on opioids for good.
Don't know if this is an exception, at least PubMed tells me no, but in the treatment centre the substituted folks were mostly pretty skinny while I put on 15kg..

 

[AlphaMethylPhenyl]

You do whatever is the most effective at helping you maintain the stability required for you to establish quality in your life. Asking for the advice of others will usually only leave you holding yourself accountable to shit you are not even capable of. Especially when it involves suboxone because it relates to addiction. Addiction is the only term thats defined by the option of multiple choice. Everyone basically gets to chose what it means to them and most of them dont even know what they are talking about unless theyve walked thru the valley of the shadow of death themselves. Good luck to you and I hope you find peace and happiness

I digress.

Most "effective" how? Does not compute.

You are against asking others for advice? Is that the "most effective" way of maintaining stability? Is this...your advice on advice? Is your advice that addiction is the only term in the multiverse that can be defined in different ways? Your advice is, wait, never mind.

The addicted do know addiction. Deductive logos (thanks Aristotle). But wait, ahh, nm.

Thanks for the advice.

 

[Kellsee]

I digress.

Most "effective" how? Does not compute.

You are against asking others for advice? Is that the "most effective" way of maintaining stability? Is this...your advice on advice? Is your advice that addiction is the only term in the multiverse that can be defined in different ways? Your advice is, wait, never mind.

The addicted do know addiction. Deductive logos (thanks Aristotle). But wait, ahh, nm.

Thanks for the advice.

I needed to be called out on this post. I owe the OP an apology. I wasn't even trying to give any advice in reference with this thread.
I was projecting from my own personal experiences. I am sorry. I hate to be done that way and I can't believe I just done it to someone else.


I have been addicted to opiates as long as I can remember. I grew up under a consistent influence of them due to over 35 surgeries I had by the time I graduated highschool. But I was 19 years old before I became fully aware of the full concept of what I had done to myself. I was in the bathroom but could hear the tv playing from the living room. I heard a male voice say " studies have confirmed that certain prescription pain medications carry a huge risk of the potential of addiction under long-term consumption". My very next thought was about how upset I had gotten the night before once I realized that I only had two pills left. I couldn't figure out why that was so alarming to me. Now I knew.

Just giving you some insight into where I am coming from.

Ive been thru every rehab center in East TN. Every addict is different and so will their recovery be. In my situation at this point I have decided that if taking one Suboxone everyday makes it possible for me to be vitally productive at maintaining some quality to my life then I am ok with taking it for the rest of my life. But I did waste half of my life stuck trying to get everyone elses approval for what represents my recovery. The stigma involved with addiction is it's biggest charm. All I am saying is dont get so caught up in appeasing all the protocols of recovery that you lose sight of what's best for you in the process. Long-term opiate abuse carries consequences. I've been left with a lot of damage. I am sure Suboxone helps my depression. You do need to be proactive about the possibilities of side effects tho.

I just get triggered when anyone starts asking questions about Suboxone because it can turn into a condescending debate. I've had to deal with so much ignorance over it. But this site is one of the few rare atmospheres where that doesn't happen. It's amazing. Such a safe place to pursue answers. So I am sorry for my attitude.

 

[Shady's Fox]

You know I thought this for a while and I do believe suboxone/oxy should go in S.A/European category

 

[polarthedog]

I no longer take Suboxone for opioid cravings but for treating my major depression. Tried about six other antidepressant meds without success in the past. Is taking Suboxone long-term a viable plan to treat depression? Will my dose eventually increase due to tolerance? Who else here only takes Suboxone for treating depression? Any other ideas of treatment for me? I asked for Ketamine treatment here in Canada but my doc said I’m not a viable candidate for that.

I am the same way, I take kratom for depression, regular antidepressants don't work for me

I also find that dxm and psychedelics help a lot, and weed.

DXM is easy to find, just go to walmart, it's in the cough medicine

They are trying to make an antidepressant with suboxone mixed with something to block mor opiate receptor effect.
That way, you would reap the antidepressant benefits of delta, kappa, and sigma opiod receptor simulation without the addiction

 

[aspiringchemist]

I wanted to jump in here and say a few things from my experience...

I believe that for some people buprenorphine is a viable option for treatment resistant depression and, as others have said, there is a growing body of scientific literature which supports the use of buprenorphine in the TRD population over more conventional treatments such as SSRI's and SNRI's.

My psychiatrist and I have been discussing using buprenorphine to treat my case of treatment resistant persistent depressive disorder and PTSD. I have a mutation to the serotonin transporter gene and SSRI's have no effect on me; tramadol gives me the worst sick and panicky feeling, so did tapentadol. Anyway, after years of various SSRI's and D2 antagonists (antipsychotics) I was started on lisdexamfetamine (vyvanse) and diazepam and I have maintained stability on these medications for about 7 years now; increased vyvanse dose once and added a 5mg dextroamphetamine booster.

I am seeing my psychiatrist in about a month and intend to bring this topic up again due to a recent experience of mine...

As some of you know I recently tried to quit using kratom after a decade long habit at 50-70gpd plus OPMS, morphine, and/or hydrocodone daily. The longest I made it completely clean was 9 days. The acute withdrawal had lifted but the depression was literally crippling. I woke up and cried every morning, all day intermittently, every night, felt hopeless and empty. Ultimately I began experiencing suicidal ideation and, when I realized it, I was somewhat disturbed by the level of deterioration my mental health underwent. It was at this time that I decided moderation was necessary and began using kratom again. Im currently only using it 3x daily and a maximum of 40g daily. It has reversed that severe depressive state.

I am so very tired of being so addicted to kratom and I too believe buprenorphine has strong potential as an antidepressant in certain populations; especially those of us with a strong history of opioid dependency. Definitely following this thread.

 

[polarthedog]

I wanted to jump in here and say a few things from my experience...

I believe that for some people buprenorphine is a viable option for treatment resistant depression and, as others have said, there is a growing body of scientific literature which supports the use of buprenorphine in the TRD population over more conventional treatments such as SSRI's and SNRI's.

My psychiatrist and I have been discussing using buprenorphine to treat my case of treatment resistant persistent depressive disorder and PTSD. I have a mutation to the serotonin transporter gene and SSRI's have no effect on me; tramadol gives me the worst sick and panicky feeling, so did tapentadol. Anyway, after years of various SSRI's and D2 antagonists (antipsychotics) I was started on lisdexamfetamine (vyvanse) and diazepam and I have maintained stability on these medications for about 7 years now; increased vyvanse dose once and added a 5mg dextroamphetamine booster.

I am seeing my psychiatrist in about a month and intend to bring this topic up again due to a recent experience of mine...

As some of you know I recently tried to quit using kratom after a decade long habit at 50-70gpd plus OPMS, morphine, and/or hydrocodone daily. The longest I made it completely clean was 9 days. The acute withdrawal had lifted but the depression was literally crippling. I woke up and cried every morning, all day intermittently, every night, felt hopeless and empty. Ultimately I began experiencing suicidal ideation and, when I realized it, I was somewhat disturbed by the level of deterioration my mental health underwent. It was at this time that I decided moderation was necessary and began using kratom again. Im currently only using it 3x daily and a maximum of 40g daily. It has reversed that severe depressive state.

I am so very tired of being so addicted to kratom and I too believe buprenorphine has strong potential as an antidepressant in certain populations; especially those of us with a strong history of opioid dependency. Definitely following this thread.

nice to see that im not the only one

 

[AlphaMethylPhenyl]

Changed the thread title to be a bit more generally applicable. Let me know if there is anything else to tend to

I think it's important to clarify that buprenorphine and naloxone combined is much more legitimate than just buprenorphine for this. It's also helpful for opioid addiction, as we know, so having both resistant depression and opioid addiction narrows that demographic.

Also, in not being negligent, stimulants aren't really antidepressants, and neither are benzos. Stimulants were the best we had until the mid-20th century. They just aren't sophisticated enough to trick the brain into creating that effect. Benzos are really useful for acute anxiety, but they tend to lose their best effects over time.

This is a forum primarily about drugs, but in MH we have a slightly different perspective. I could say that people should be able to take what they want. This is not what the people around us will accept at this point. That said, if you disagree, that's fine, but given our surroundings, it isn't in the spirit of harm reduction of MH not to address.

 

[aspiringchemist]

Changed the thread title to be a bit more generally applicable. Let me know if there is anything else to tend to

I think it's important to clarify that buprenorphine and naloxone combined is much more legitimate than just buprenorphine for this. It's also helpful for opioid addiction, as we know, so having both resistant depression and opioid addiction narrows that demographic.

Also, in not being negligent, stimulants aren't really antidepressants, and neither are benzos. Stimulants were the best we had until the mid-20th century. They just aren't sophisticated enough to trick the brain into creating that effect. Benzos are really useful for acute anxiety, but they tend to lose their best effects over time.

This is a forum primarily about drugs, but in MH we have a slightly different perspective. I could say that people should be able to take what they want. This is not what the people around us will accept at this point. That said, if you disagree, that's fine, but given our surroundings, it isn't in the spirit of harm reduction of MH not to address.

I know this is an old thread so my apologies and mods please remove if see fit, but I want to clarify that, if you're mentioning stimulants and benzodiazepines is in reference to my post, I would like to say that I definitely do not tout amphetamines and benzodiazepines as "antidepressants" by default. I was simply sharing my personal story with treatment resistant persistent depressive disorder (aka dysthymia or my preferred term, neurotic depression) and what finally did provide some relief in my case. I do find it interesting that this treatment modality was previously used to such a degree (more so with barbiturates I suppose but same idea) and now carries as much stigma as opioids, yet still has clinical relevance.

I think they can be incredibly useful tools in mental health treatment in certain situations, populations etc. Never would I claim drugs with the capacity to cause such dependency to be across the board safe and encourage their use without proper education and guidance.

I happen to work in this field and many of my years have been spent on/in an inpatient psychiatric unit. I have always hoped to become a research doctor in this field though am having some difficulties with acceptance to medical school.

To be honest I didn't quite understand what you were saying in uour last paragraph about harm reduction and MH. Would you mind clarifying? I imagine we are not in much disagreement. I should have put a disclaimer with my statement on amphetamine and benzodiazepine treatment that this carries quite a few risks and is not a front line treatment modality anymore. It is really only something that should be considered, imho, after exhaustion of all other options.

 

[Eligiu]

I take subs as well as Psychiatric medication and I've been on them a shitload of times for shortish periods (6-12 months here and there before I always came off treatment too early due to resenting the daily pick ups) so I can say for a fact that I definitely feel better on it than off, it just sort of dulls some of the crippling anxiety I feel day to day when off maintenance or any drugs. I'm currently on the monthly injections and I have to say the only side effect I've noticed is increased fatigue, but I've only been on it for the better part of 6 months so it's hard to say whether that's getting worse or getting better and I'm still adjusting.

I don't think it's a reliable form of treatment though. I think i am receiving some small benefit from it being a partial opiate agonist and feeling a fraction of what people do on full opiates. It's not really comparable though to be honest.

And like others I'm pretty happy to stay on it indefinitely despite what others may believe is the right way of using the medication because I should have stayed on it longer the second time I went on it but I went overseas and came off early. Same goes for the third time. The fourth or this time (I forget how many times it's been) will be the one I finally take more seriously and stay on it for longer because my brain just craves that opiate feeling.

Honestly the first time I took an opiate I remember feeling like it solved all of my problems. It didn't, clearly. But it felt like it did. And from that moment is when my addiction started because I have never felt such a strong pull towards any drug in my life since then. If maintenance therapy can give me a fraction of that feeling with none of the associated serious harms, I'll take that.

However I think it should really be limited to people who have opiate addictions already if being concurrently prescribed for treating depression. An interesting thread to read through as I thought I was the only one who felt this way as several if my friends have also been on maintainance therapy but they absolutely hated it.

 

[Man67]

I've been on Suboxone (8mg) for 6 weeks and it literally saved my life. I am talking about depression. Besides taking 2 antidepressants for years (Lexapro and Endep) I was at the bottom. I am concerned about the possibility that I could develop a tolerance to Subs and that depression will come back again? Can anybody here (with a long term experience with Suboxone), answer this question?

 

[Opi_Kid_Rock]

I've been on Suboxone (8mg) for 6 weeks and it literally saved my life. I am talking about depression. Besides taking 2 antidepressants for years (Lexapro and Endep) I was at the bottom. I am concerned about the possibility that I could develop a tolerance to Subs and that depression will come back again? Can anybody here (with a long term experience with Suboxone), answer this question?

I’ve been on Suboxone for 3 years going from more than 10mg/day to now 4mg/day. My need for Suboxone has been steadily going down rather than needing more and going up.
Currently, psychedelics are what I’ve been turning to for treating my depression -a subject for another thread.

 

[Man67]

I’ve been on Suboxone for 3 years going from more than 10mg/day to now 4mg/day. My need for Suboxone has been steadily going down rather than needing more and going up.
Currently, psychedelics are what I’ve been turning to for treating my depression -a subject for another thread.

I absolutely agree. The main reason for abusing painkillers for years was my depression. I didn't want to feel high, just normal. I was going through my monthly prescription in a week. The rest of the time I was staring at ceiling and thinking about my next appointment. Maybe I expect too much from Suboxone, but so far it's been an answer to all my prayers.