Can Narcotic Addiction Cure Alcoholism?

[DougDitches]

A close friend of mine is dying of severe alcoholism. Think "Leaving Las Vegas," he's on his way out. I've heard stories of people that replaced their alcohol addiction with opiate/opioid addiction and wondering if anyone here has any experience with this or knows of any studies. I am thinking methadone maintenance or Suboxone dependence would be preferable to him drinking himself to death.

 

[F.U.B.A.R.]

I don't think the two can be substituted directly, but there's a definite tendency to replace opiates with booze and vice versa. Downers are downers innit?

 

[Snafu in the Void]

Such a thing is possible, but unlikely to succeed. There is a high chance your friend will begin to use both, or go back to alcohol, or overdose. So many things could go wrong rather than right.

But it may be worth a shot if your friend is truly dying.... assuming they've already tried rehab, benzos, detox, hospitalization... etc.

I am someone who was addicted to heroin and got off by using alcohol. I became an alcoholic. I can tell you with surety that if I started using heroin again I would end up using both.

In reality the only true cure for alcoholism is sobriety, but the grim statistic is a lot of people never get sober.

BDD -> recovery.

 

[DougDitches]

I don't think the two can be substituted directly, but there's a definite tendency to replace opiates with booze and vice versa. Downers are downers innit?

Well SWIM is on MMT and he had some long drinking binges in his youth. As soon as he discovered opiates/opioids, he no longer had cravings for alcohol. He would be in the same miserable state as my alky friend if he hadn't switched addictions. But my alky friend has been binge drinking for two decades, and has far more advanced alcoholism than SWIM did. So not sure it will be the lifesaving switch in his case. We got him into treatment twice, both times he bailed. I don't think anything else could possibly save him except maybe prison time.

 

[DougDitches]

Such a thing is possible, but unlikely to succeed. There is a high chance your friend will begin to use both, or go back to alcohol, or overdose. So many things could go wrong rather than right.

But it may be worth a shot if your friend is truly dying.... assuming they've already tried rehab, benzos, detox, hospitalization... etc.

I am someone who was addicted to heroin and got off by using alcohol. I became an alcoholic. I can tell you with surety that if I started using heroin again I would end up using both.

In reality the only true cure for alcoholism is sobriety, but the grim statistic is a lot of people never get sober.

BDD -> recovery.

Well, I don't know your sitch but I think it's pretty universally agreed that clean narcotics are far less harmful to the body than booze. I'm curious why you never considered MMT or Suboxone? When SWIM was on high dose of methadone he not only no longer craved alcohol but actually got dopesick when he drank even one beer. But he wasn't an alcoholic for nearly as long as my fr

In the case of my friend, he has bailed out of treatment twice, and can't get a doc to prescribe him benzos. He's currently in and out of the hospital with severe symptoms of alcohol withdrawal and alcohol poisoning. It's hail mary time that's why I'm reaching out for info.

Thanks.

 

[Snafu in the Void]

I was on suboxone. I got off suboxone with kratom and alcohol, but then started drinking very heavily. Didn't go directly from heroin to alcohol, should have clarified.

Advanced/severe alcoholism is sort of a unique addiction because of it's availability and unique neurological changes it creates.

Yes, opioids are less damaging to the body, but they don't have a magical ability to undue advanced alcoholism.

 

[cdin]

tbf they would do better at least temporarily switching to a benzo. a good GP should be able to see the damage of the ethanol and realize that a librium or valium substitute would clearly be the right thing - especially if they approached it as wanting to taper off. once they are stabilized on benzos off the booze - they could use kava and muscimol (amanita muscaria) to get some "Gaba kick" when they want a lil extra. this is what i do/have done, although i am fully off any benzos even at this point. I still drink on occassion, couple times a year, but will never go back to booze as my main deal. it's too damaging.
but yeah - getting out of that leaving las vegas style drinking is extremely difficult and dangerous. they will need medical supervision and someone overseeing a crossover to benzo. almost certainly a short medical in patient detox is what is needed, followed by outpatient benzo therapy til they can get more stable.

if they still need something to "get high" later -- why not kratom? it is fun, relieving, does not suppress breathing and is cheap/obtainable. if one had to be into something like that, i would think it the best HR option of the bunch. methadone will be a much bigger bitch to deal with, and street opioids are not safe atm.

 

[Lil'LinaptkSix]

SWIM

For the record we do not need to use this acronym here at bluelight.
That being said... welcome aboard and hoping your friend makes it out of this alive and well.
To get off alcohol (by whatever means) - personally I would go with the benzodiazepine route for a short time and possibly kratom. Just recently I found that naltrexone may help with alcoholism and this may or may not be any help in the context of your friend but here is some literature on the matter just for reference:

Google Scholar

scholar.google.com

Edit: I had no clue that alcohol does in fact affect opioid receptors....

Google Scholar

scholar.google.com

 

[neversickanymore]

When I was addicted to opiates I consumed like tree beers in 5 years. They would also need to look at liver toxicity of specific opiates if they have liver disease. I'm not sure how they would be prescribed them, so they likely would be scoring off then street.

Liver function and Opioids

Opioids in Patients with Renal or Hepatic Dysfunction

The use of opioids in geriatric patients and those with hepatic or renal insufficiency can present significant challenges for clinicians.

www.practicalpainmanagement.com

Safe Usage of Analgesics in Patients with Chronic Liver Disease: A Review of the Literature

Patients with chronic liver disease need special consideration when prescribing pain medications

www.practicalpainmanagement.com

 

[Pissed_and_messed]

I commonly want beer or two when I go to get groceries.
Little less so while baked
Pretty much not at all on opiates
Also, I am alcoholic, essentially, but I didn't care about drinking that much when I did benzos
Opiates won't prevent seizures when getting off of alcohol

 

[jjisjivin]

Well, I don't know your sitch but I think it's pretty universally agreed that clean narcotics are far less harmful to the body than booze. I'm curious why you never considered MMT or Suboxone? When SWIM was on high dose of methadone he not only no longer craved alcohol but actually got dopesick when he drank even one beer. But he wasn't an alcoholic for nearly as long as my fr

In the case of my friend, he has bailed out of treatment twice, and can't get a doc to prescribe him benzos. He's currently in and out of the hospital with severe symptoms of alcohol withdrawal and alcohol poisoning. It's hail mary time that's why I'm reaching out for info.

Thanks.

Im.on suboxone, was drinking a fifth a day and opiates. Suboxone took away my urge to drink.

 

[DougDitches]

tbf they would do better at least temporarily switching to a benzo. a good GP should be able to see the damage of the ethanol and realize that a librium or valium substitute would clearly be the right thing - especially if they approached it as wanting to taper off. once they are stabilized on benzos off the booze - they could use kava and muscimol (amanita muscaria) to get some "Gaba kick" when they want a lil extra. this is what i do/have done, although i am fully off any benzos even at this point. I still drink on occassion, couple times a year, but will never go back to booze as my main deal. it's too damaging.
but yeah - getting out of that leaving las vegas style drinking is extremely difficult and dangerous. they will need medical supervision and someone overseeing a crossover to benzo. almost certainly a short medical in patient detox is what is needed, followed by outpatient benzo therapy til they can get more stable.

if they still need something to "get high" later -- why not kratom? it is fun, relieving, does not suppress breathing and is cheap/obtainable. if one had to be into something like that, i would think it the best HR option of the bunch. methadone will be a much bigger bitch to deal with, and street opioids are not safe atm.

 

[DougDitches]

Yeah I gave him some kratom a few times to see if it would help. He liked it ok but sometimes it made his nausea a lot worse, and once he ate these kratom gummies that made him puke and puke. I think you're probably right that he won't be able to just switch addictions at the point he's at now. He's too far gone, sick when he's drinking, sick when he's not drinking, his whole body shakes continuously. He's only 40 and a very talented guy who had a lot going for him before the monkey on his back started wrecking it all. Thanks for your help.

 

[ChemicallyEnhanced]

A close friend of mine is dying of severe alcoholism. Think "Leaving Las Vegas," he's on his way out. I've heard stories of people that replaced their alcohol addiction with opiate/opioid addiction and wondering if anyone here has any experience with this or knows of any studies. I am thinking methadone maintenance or Suboxone dependence would be preferable to him drinking himself to death.

Cure? No. Replace? Yes

I was severely alcohol dependant (never used any drugs) and almost died of very severe acute pancreatitis. I was in hospital for 3 months and given first IV diamorphine and then IV morphine every 4 hours the whole time. I was detoxed from alcohol while there, but basically just entered an alcoholic and left an opioid addict.

 

[DougDitches]

Im.on suboxone, was drinking a fifth a day and opiates. Suboxone took away my urge to drink.

Can I ask how long you'd been an alcoholic before Suboxone stopped your cravings? Also this might be a little off topic but do you get high at all off of Suboxone? I heard it just kills your cravings, doesn't get you off like methadone. Thanks.

 

[DougDitches]

Cure? No. Replace? Yes

I was severely alcohol dependant (never used any drugs) and almost died of very severe acute pancreatitis. I was in hospital for 3 months and given first IV diamorphine and then IV morphine every 4 hours the whole time. I was detoxed from alcohol while there, but basically just entered an alcoholic and left an opioid addict.

Can I ask how long you were an alcoholic first?

 

[DougDitches]

When I was addicted to opiates I consumed like tree beers in 5 years. They would also need to look at liver toxicity of specific opiates if they have liver disease. I'm not sure how they would be prescribed them, so they likely would be scoring off then street.

Well yeah I don't think there's a physician in the world that would intentionally steer someone off alcohol and on to opiates. At least at first he'd have to get them some other way, but then he should be able to pretty quickly get on to MMT or Suboxone. I have no idea where to get anything illicitly but I've seen people smoking fentanyl all over this city. It smells like burnt popcorn and they do it out in the open or in public restrooms.

 

[DougDitches]

For the record we do not need to use this acronym here at bluelight.
That being said... welcome aboard and hoping your friend makes it out of this alive and well.
To get off alcohol (by whatever means) - personally I would go with the benzodiazepine route for a short time and possibly kratom. Just recently I found that naltrexone may help with alcoholism and this may or may not be any help in the context of your friend but here is some literature on the matter just for reference:

Edit: I had no clue that alcohol does in fact affect opioid receptors....

Yeah SWIM it's an old habit. The world is different now I suppose.

He has naltrexone but won't take it. His alcoholism is the worst kind because he just can't seem to commit to the idea of getting sober. He won't go to meetings and bailed out of detox twice. He has great support from family and friends, his church community and is incredibly skilled in his profession. But the monkey just keeps breaking everything.

 

[ChemicallyEnhanced]

Can I ask how long you were an alcoholic first?

Sure. I'd been drinking like all day every day for 8 years, and actually alcohol dependant (as in experiencing seizures etc from not drinking) for 7 years.

 

[cdin]

Yeah SWIM it's an old habit. The world is different now I suppose.

He has naltrexone but won't take it. His alcoholism is the worst kind because he just can't seem to commit to the idea of getting sober. He won't go to meetings and bailed out of detox twice. He has great support from family and friends, his church community and is incredibly skilled in his profession. But the monkey just keeps breaking everything.

if he would consider it, doing a medical detox, and then a benzo crossover followed by and an iboga treatment might be his best chance. it's what worked for me in that context and for cPTSD/TBI --- i still take substances, the human brain is fun - but fixing the underlying pathology (in my case, ptsd) that was causing compulsive drug use has been followed by a renewed commitment to use these tools for the reasons they are supposed to be, and with caution not to re-damage my brain. "the monkey" is a real physical pathology, but i would bet money that the true cause is a much deeper wound that necessitated the constant medication in the first place. Iboga is potent at healing these underlying conditions, hence producing the type of changes I am talking about. I didn't take ibogaine to "be sober" i took it to heal some deep trauma issues and leave myself in a position to respect the tools we have in our pharmacopiea and use them as I need to be an optimal human being.