Benzos can klonopin slightly block other benzos?

[Znegative]

From reading the title of my post you'll all think I'm a real moron I'm guessing, but I've noticed something odd in the last week. To explain though I have to give some background information:

I've been on benzo's for the last 6 months or so. I started with xanax, and then in addition I obtained a prescription for klonopin, 1 mg. For about 4 months I took the klonopin AND an increasingly large dosage of xanax, where after about 4 months I was consuming about 10 mg of benzo's a day (1 of those mg being clonazepam). Then I tapered down to a dose of 1 mg of just the k-pins, and for about a month I stayed solely on just that.

Now, In the last week I've started adding some xanax back into the mix, since school is starting (my excuse). I've noticed something really strange though with the xanax. If I say wake up in the morning and take the xanax first, It will hit me immediately and I'll feel it, BUT if I then take the clonazepam soon after, it seems to kill the benzo high. If I then take another .5 mg of xanax after the k-pins I get high again, but I still feel like I'm not quite where I want to be. However if I wait until the evening, and then take another .5 mg I do get there, and I'm guessing that its because there is a dip in the klonopin in my body.

In the past mixing the two has always worked out well for me, but now it seems like I have to do things in some weird order to achieve a buzz. Could this possibly be an issue of tolerance? I've always heard that both clonazepam and xanax had practically the same potency so I imagine not, but the clonazepam does build up in your system do to the half life, and I'm wondering if it can possibly have a methadone like effect.

Has anyone else experienced anything like this? Or have some possible explanation?

 

[Dopa-Amine]

Clonezapem has a more sedative effect than alprazolam. Alprazolam seems to act as a dopamine agonist which could explain some of its more uplifting subjective effect. By taking clonazpeam later you are sinergising their sedative effect exponentially thereby killing any mood lifting effect from alprazolam.

I have used many times recreationally both alprazolam and clonazepam together. I find that clonazepam will make me much more sedated as opposed to alprazolam which acts as a pro-social substance.

Both are good anxyolitics and I would recommend against using both together as part of your regimen. Stick to one or the other.

 

[HdoubleODeezy]

^i totally disagree that clonazepam is more sedating than alprazolam, in fact clonazepam has almost no sedative effect unless taken in high doses, which is the reason it is so good for daytime anxiety.

but to the OP: i've been experiencing the opposite, it's weird.
I can take a ton of phenazepam with no effect for hours (like 5 hours) and then when i take my scripted dose of clonazepam, all benzos kick in together and im a stumbling, drooling and word slurring mess. Like i said, it's weird. Has happened to me when i acquired 30 1mg Xanax also.. it's like benzos don't work on me unless i take clonazepam with it . I'm down to 1mg kpin/day off a 10mg taper. Anyways.. benzos are a hell of a drug.

 

[kokaino]

Clonezapem has a more sedative effect than alprazolam. Alprazolam seems to act as a dopamine agonist which could explain some of its more uplifting subjective effect. By taking clonazpeam later you are sinergising their sedative effect exponentially thereby killing any mood lifting effect from alprazolam.

I have used many times recreationally both alprazolam and clonazepam together. I find that clonazepam will make me much more sedated as opposed to alprazolam which acts as a pro-social substance.

Both are good anxyolitics and I would recommend against using both together as part of your regimen. Stick to one or the other.

I actually find alprazolam to be slightly more sedating than clonazepam. I've been prescribed alprazolam monthly for the past 4 years and I have extensive experience with clonazepam aswell.

Alprazolam (and all other full agonist benzo's) have an effect on dopamine over time. For example, if you take 1 mg alprazolam right now, there will be no effect on dopamine whatsoever. It takes months of repeated dosing with benzos for this effect to begin taking effect. The effect is simply just an increase in both dopamine D1 and D2 receptors in the striatum.

So it's not just alprazolam, but all benzos.

Go here for the study

 

[Dopa-Amine]

I actually find alprazolam to be slightly more sedating than clonazepam. I've been prescribed alprazolam monthly for the past 4 years and I have extensive experience with clonazepam aswell.

Alprazolam (and all other full agonist benzo's) have an effect on dopamine over time. For example, if you take 1 mg alprazolam right now, there will be no effect on dopamine whatsoever. It takes months of repeated dosing with benzos for this effect to begin taking effect. The effect is simply just an increase in both dopamine D1 and D2 receptors in the striatum.

So it's not just alprazolam, but all benzos.

Go here for the study

I have read that study before but it does not say anything with regards to acute intake. I don't know where you get that all benzos do the same to the dopamine receptor. Since yours is about rats, how about we look at something a bit more recent.

Role of dopaminergic and serotonergic systems on behavioral stimulatory effects of low-dose alprazolam and lorazepam.

Several recent studies have demonstrated that alprazolam and lorazepam, administered at low doses to healthy volunteers, improve cognitive functions and psychomotor performances. Paradoxical effects of low-dose benzodiazepines have been also observed in mice, in experimental pharmacology. The aim of this work was to determine, in rat, the effect of similar low-doses of benzodiazepines on spontaneous locomotor activity and performance in the elevated zero-maze, and to investigate the underlying neurobiological mechanisms. The dose-effect and the time-course of the action were studied for both compounds. Spontaneous locomotor activity was measured using a photoelectric actimeter. The level of anxiety of the animals was assessed in the elevated zero-maze. Dopamine, serotonin, and their metabolites were assayed in the extracellular striatal fluid of the awake rat, obtained by microdialysis, by HPLC-EC. Spontaneous locomotor activity observed in rats given low-dose alprazolam and lorazepam evidenced a stimulatory effect only with alprazolam. The effect was maximum 90 min after administration of 0.0050 mg/kg alprazolam. An anxiogenic-like action was evidenced with the elevated zero-maze for the two compounds. We observed a statistically significant increase in striatal dopamine concentrations only with alprazolam, during the period corresponding to the behavioral stimulatory effects. We also showed a marked trend towards increased levels of serotonin with alprazolam but this modification was not significant, in spite of statistically significant variations of 5-HIAA. In the rat, behavioral stimulatory effects of low-dose benzodiazepines is evidenced with alprazolam but not lorazepam. This effect could be explained, at least in part, by increased extracellular dopamine concentrations in the striatum. Their different structures could explain the different pattern observed for the two benzodiazepines.

For link: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11226811

Alprazolam is the most recreationally abused benzo if you browse Bluelight and its action on dopamine concentrations, if extrapolated from rats to humans, could be one of the reasons why it is so. Not only that but lorazepam, one of the most commonly prescribed benzodiazepines, does not show a marked increase in dopamine concentrations which goes in hand to the subjective feelings of apathy and tiredness that it gives me everytime I take it. IME, alprazolam is the only benzo that induces any vague feeling of stimulation.

 

[Dopa-Amine]

^i totally disagree that clonazepam is more sedating than alprazolam, in fact clonazepam has almost no sedative effect unless taken in high doses, which is the reason it is so good for daytime anxiety.

Wrong. Clonazepam is good for daytime anxiety due to its half-life and lengthy interval of therapeutical effects. Moreover, its strong anticonvulsant properties sinergise nicely with the anxiolytic effect which is extremely useful in polydrug use with stimulants.

 

[kokaino]

I have read that study before but it does not say anything with regards to acute intake. I don't know where you get that all benzos do the same to the dopamine receptor. Since yours is about rats, how about we look at something a bit more recent.

Role of dopaminergic and serotonergic systems on behavioral stimulatory effects of low-dose alprazolam and lorazepam.

Several recent studies have demonstrated that alprazolam and lorazepam, administered at low doses to healthy volunteers, improve cognitive functions and psychomotor performances. Paradoxical effects of low-dose benzodiazepines have been also observed in mice, in experimental pharmacology. The aim of this work was to determine, in rat, the effect of similar low-doses of benzodiazepines on spontaneous locomotor activity and performance in the elevated zero-maze, and to investigate the underlying neurobiological mechanisms. The dose-effect and the time-course of the action were studied for both compounds. Spontaneous locomotor activity was measured using a photoelectric actimeter. The level of anxiety of the animals was assessed in the elevated zero-maze. Dopamine, serotonin, and their metabolites were assayed in the extracellular striatal fluid of the awake rat, obtained by microdialysis, by HPLC-EC. Spontaneous locomotor activity observed in rats given low-dose alprazolam and lorazepam evidenced a stimulatory effect only with alprazolam. The effect was maximum 90 min after administration of 0.0050 mg/kg alprazolam. An anxiogenic-like action was evidenced with the elevated zero-maze for the two compounds. We observed a statistically significant increase in striatal dopamine concentrations only with alprazolam, during the period corresponding to the behavioral stimulatory effects. We also showed a marked trend towards increased levels of serotonin with alprazolam but this modification was not significant, in spite of statistically significant variations of 5-HIAA. In the rat, behavioral stimulatory effects of low-dose benzodiazepines is evidenced with alprazolam but not lorazepam. This effect could be explained, at least in part, by increased extracellular dopamine concentrations in the striatum. Their different structures could explain the different pattern observed for the two benzodiazepines.

For link: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11226811

Alprazolam is the most recreationally abused benzo if you browse Bluelight and its action on dopamine concentrations, if extrapolated from rats to humans, could be one of the reasons why it is so. Not only that but lorazepam, one of the most commonly prescribed benzodiazepines, does not show a marked increase in dopamine concentrations which goes in hand to the subjective feelings of apathy and tiredness that it gives me everytime I take it. IME, alprazolam is the only benzo that induces any vague feeling of stimulation.

Regardless, alprazolam is only the most commonly abused benzo in the US and that's because it is BY FAR the most prescribed benzo in the US. It's all about availability, not some "special qualities".

In fact, the most abused benzo on a worldwide scale are Temazepam, Diazepam, Nimetazepam, and Flunitrazepam. Studies have even backed this up. This is also why temazepam, flunitrazepam, and nimetazepam are more strictly regulated at the international level and temazepam is placed in higher schedules in almost every European country and some Asian countries, same goes for flunitrazepam.

Dark, Ross and Hall et al found that different benzodiazepines have different abuse potential. The more rapid the increase in the plasma level following ingestion, the greater the intoxicating effect and the more open to abuse the drug becomes. The speed of onset of action of a particular benzodiazepine correlates well with the ‘popularity’ of that drug for abuse. Darke, Ross & Hall found that temazepam, diazepam, nimetazepam, and flunitrazepam rated significantly higher than all other benzodiazepines. The two most common reasons for this preference were that it was the ‘strongest’ and that it gave a good ‘high’.

 

[DiRtYjErZ]

Wrong. Clonazepam is good for daytime anxiety due to its half-life and lengthy interval of therapeutical effects. Moreover, its strong anticonvulsant properties sinergise nicely with the anxiolytic effect which is extremely useful in polydrug use with stimulants.

Agreed. I think you might be just experiencing some cross tolerance. Kpins have a longer HL but Xanax are usually found to be a more recreational high. When my doc put me on kpins instead of my usual Xanax 4 a month I ate 60 1mg kpins in like 6 days no lie. I didn't feel a damn thing. Went back to Xanax and happy again lol.

 

[monstanoodle]

I don't have a clue about receptor affinity when it comes to Benzos (in the same way that Methadone or Subutex have an extremely high affinity for the µ-receptor, therefore other full-agonist Opiates/Opioids won't have [much of] an effect) but, as a wild - and blind - stab in the dark, could this be the case?

Other than that, it could be tolerance but that wouldn't explain why you get effects from taking them in a very specific order...

**Shrugs** That's my only guess I'm afraid

 

[Alex000]

I think alprazolam has the tendency to hit harder, but is not necessarily a better anxiolytic than clonazepam. Clonazepam is a good anxiolytic, potent, but subtle in some respects, too. I think what you may be experiencing is the clonazepam sort of mellowing you out, maybe making the alprazolam's "hit hard" effects less apparent as the clonazepam would remove anxiety on its own and the alprazolam becomes just an addition. Just a thought, don't know if it makes sense.

 

[Dopa-Amine]

Regardless, alprazolam is only the most commonly abused benzo in the US and that's because it is BY FAR the most prescribed benzo in the US. It's all about availability, not some "special qualities".

In fact, the most abused benzo on a worldwide scale are Temazepam, Diazepam, Nimetazepam, and Flunitrazepam. Studies have even backed this up. This is also why temazepam, flunitrazepam, and nimetazepam are more strictly regulated at the international level and temazepam is placed in higher schedules in almost every European country and some Asian countries, same goes for flunitrazepam.

Dark, Ross and Hall et al found that different benzodiazepines have different abuse potential. The more rapid the increase in the plasma level following ingestion, the greater the intoxicating effect and the more open to abuse the drug becomes. The speed of onset of action of a particular benzodiazepine correlates well with the ‘popularity’ of that drug for abuse. Darke, Ross & Hall found that temazepam, diazepam, nimetazepam, and flunitrazepam rated significantly higher than all other benzodiazepines. The two most common reasons for this preference were that it was the ‘strongest’ and that it gave a good ‘high’.

First of all, it is always a good idea to provide a creditable link to back your claims, and not leave readers having to google up what you write through keywords.

The people studied by your scientists are heroin addicts, hardly any reliable population which readily hints to IV use of such benzodiazepines. If you look at the benzos they describe as the most abusable, they are all water soluble i.e they end in -pam hence they are injectable. Alprazolam is not injectable, or at least your heroin junkie would not know how to. Temazepam, for the record, is IVed and one of the only ones to produce a so called "rush" (whatever addicts may mean). Temazepam IV use is recorded to produce catastrophic consequences such as limb amputation but we know that benzos are not made to inject, right? IVed temazepam takes seconds to produce effects as opposed to aprox. one hour through oral route.

To add more insult to your arguement: temazepam, flunitrazepam and nimetazepam are HYPNOTIC benzodiazepines. That is, they are not used for anxiolisis, that is, doctors dont presribe them for daytime anxiety relief, so these benzos are, to begin with, no applicable to the argument.

Seriously, I am not trying to argue here but if you are going to try and argue my posts, provide some relevant information.

 

[Skelu]

For me Xanax has no sedative effects at all. Xanax shouldn’t be sedative when the dosage is within the therapeutic range, whereas Clonazepam is sedative at all dosages. That’s what the pharmacy companies tell in their product summaries. Those product summaries are all public and full of bullshit.

 

[DiRtYjErZ]

I think alprazolam has the tendency to hit harder, but is not necessarily a better anxiolytic than clonazepam. Clonazepam is a good anxiolytic, potent, but subtle in some respects, too. I think what you may be experiencing is the clonazepam sort of mellowing you out, maybe making the alprazolam's "hit hard" effects less apparent as the clonazepam would remove anxiety on its own and the alprazolam becomes just an addition. Just a thought, don't know if it makes sense.

Actually makes perfect sense lol. I agree. And I agree with the last post as well. Hypnotic benzos like Valium aren't prescribed nearly as much as Ativan and alprazolam especially because when dealing with anxiety attacks there fast onset and high BA make them perfect for fast Tx for panic attacks and they don't knock u out at appropriate anxiolotic doses

 

[HdoubleODeezy]

Wrong. Clonazepam is good for daytime anxiety due to its half-life and lengthy interval of therapeutical effects. Moreover, its strong anticonvulsant properties sinergise nicely with the anxiolytic effect which is extremely useful in polydrug use with stimulants.

i don't know who you think you are, telling me i am wrong because i think that alprazolam is more sedating than clonazepam, i mean.. you don't even need to leave this site, just search around BL and find out which is more sedating. But im not going to argue with you over it. I only have years of experience with benzos and opiates (in fact they are the ONLY thing i study/ have interest in).
But you can go ahead and think that clonazepam is more of a sedative than alprazolam haha, you sir are the one who is wrong. Clonazepam produces almost NO sedation at all.

Agreed. I think you might be just experiencing some cross tolerance. Kpins have a longer HL but Xanax are usually found to be a more recreational high. When my doc put me on kpins instead of my usual Xanax 4 a month I ate 60 1mg kpins in like 6 days no lie. I didn't feel a damn thing. Went back to Xanax and happy again lol.

which would mean that alprazolam has more sedative/ recreational effects. You don't agree with that, but agree that alprazolam is less sedating?? i just don't get some people.


I have been taking clonazepam for years mixed with phenazepam here and there and i never experienced ANY sedation at any level that made me feel i needed to get sleep from either of the two..
But i could take a 2mg xanax and be ready to sleep 2 hours later.. but of course that is only my experience so you won't take it as fact so ask around, i think you will find that people consider clonazepam NON sedating

First of all, it is always a good idea to provide a creditable link to back your claims, and not leave readers having to google up what you write through keywords.

The people studied by your scientists are heroin addicts, hardly any reliable population which readily hints to IV use of such benzodiazepines. If you look at the benzos they describe as the most abusable, they are all water soluble i.e they end in -pam hence they are injectable. Alprazolam is not injectable, or at least your heroin junkie would not know how to. Temazepam, for the record, is IVed and one of the only ones to produce a so called "rush" (whatever addicts may mean). Temazepam IV use is recorded to produce catastrophic consequences such as limb amputation but we know that benzos are not made to inject, right? IVed temazepam takes seconds to produce effects as opposed to aprox. one hour through oral route.

To add more insult to your arguement: temazepam, flunitrazepam and nimetazepam are HYPNOTIC benzodiazepines. That is, they are not used for anxiolisis, that is, doctors dont presribe them for daytime anxiety relief, so these benzos are, to begin with, no applicable to the argument.

Seriously, I am not trying to argue here but if you are going to try and argue my posts, provide some relevant information.

did you just say that benzos that end in -pam are water soluble???
if you did, i now consider you not only mis informed.. but an official retard.

You need propylene glycol for most benzos to be soluble.
Check out this thread--- http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=489494
As you can see, IF you can see (or read for that matter).. Flurazepam, Midazolam and Loprazolam (NOT lorazepam) are the only water soluble benzos worth shooting.. the rest require a different solution (example PG like i stated above)

But i am done.. i have proven my case, argue back and you won't get a reply for it because i am not going to argue with someone who has the drug knowledge of my 7 year old son.

 

[chompy]

clonazepam is used by the military for snipers to keep a steady aim.

 

[HdoubleODeezy]

clonazepam is used by the military for snipers to keep a steady aim.

i was never in the military but i am assuming that they wouldn't give something with sedative properties to someone who needs to stay alert like a sniper.. i assume the clonazepam was just to ease the anxiety and give them a better shot.
Now if they gave them alprazolam the snipers wouldn't be as alert and their shots would have a higher miss percentage since xanax IS more sedating.. thank you for posting this, it helps me prove that kpins are used a lot because they are almost non-sedating.. i will agree with the people i was arguing with that if you have no tolerance ANY benzo will sedate you INCLUDING clonazepam and even more..alprazolam. But after a couple days on clonazepam the sedation is almost non existant.

OP: you can have your thread back lol, i apologize for the rant i went on.

 

[Skelu]

I copied and translated few texts from Finnish Medicines Agency. I am not saying that those texts are true. Those are meant to help the health care professionals.
“Clonazepam has a strong anticonvulsive, sedative, muscle relaxing and anxiolytic effects.”
“Alprazolam. Sedation is rare when the dosage used is therapeutic. An Anxiolytic dosage doesn’t cause significant muscle weakness.”

 

[HdoubleODeezy]

Alprazolam possesses anxiolytic, sedative, hypnotic, anticonvulsant, amnestic, and muscle relaxant properties.

Xanax PLACEBO Xanax

*
Events reported by 1% or more of Xanax patients are included.
†
None reported

Number of Patients
% of Patients Reporting: 565 505 565
Central Nervous System
Drowsiness 41.0 21.6 15.1
Light-headedness 20.8 19.3 1.2
Depression 13.9 18.1 2.4
Headache 12.9 19.6 1.1
Confusion 9.9 10.0 0.9
Insomnia 8.9 18.4 1.3
Nervousness 4.1 10.3 1.1
Syncope 3.1 4.0 †
Dizziness 1.8 0.8 2.5
Akathisia 1.6 1.2 †
Tiredness/Sleepiness † † 1.8
Gastrointestinal
Dry Mouth 14.7 13.3 0.7
Constipation 10.4 11.4 0.9
Diarrhea 10.1 10.3 1.2
Nausea/Vomiting 9.6 12.8 1.7
Increased Salivation 4.2 2.4 †
Cardiovascular
Tachycardia/Palpitations 7.7 15.6 0.4
Hypotension 4.7 2.2 †
Sensory
Blurred Vision 6.2 6.2 0.4
Musculoskeletal
Rigidity 4.2 5.3 †
Tremor 4.0 8.8 0.4
Cutaneous
Dermatitis/Allergy 3.8 3.1 0.6
Other
Nasal Congestion 7.3 9.3 †
Weight Gain 2.7 2.7 †
Weight Loss 2.3 3.0 †


___________________________________________________________________--
Clonazepam is a benzodiazepine derivative with anticonvulsant, muscle relaxant, and very potent anxiolytic properties.

Treatment Adverse Event Klonopin (N=574) Placebo (N=294)
Somnolence 7% 1%
Depression 4% 1%
Dizziness 1% <1%
Nervousness 1% 0%
Ataxia 1% 0%
Intellectual Ability Reduced 1% 0%

 

[Skelu]

I am not trying to argue with you. I have read a lot of your posts and you seem to know your things. But for me example neither these drugs are very sedating. But clonazepam is more sedating for me absolutely. If I mix alcohol in then it’s another story. Sorry OP

 

[Skelu]

Where is that chart for clonazepam. Restoril is not quite the same. Or am i not seeing something.