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Can I fool my psychiatrist/ manipulate my blood tests for anti-psychotics?

jobe28

Bluelighter
Joined
Apr 5, 2011
Messages
261
Hi. I've recently been diagnosed with schizophrenia and have been forced to take an anti-psychotic called clozapine. And I've decided that I want to stop taking it but the thing is I get blood tests every month to monitor the amount of clozapine in my blood. What I'm wondering is, is it possible for me to completely stop taking the drug, but just take a large dose the day of the blood test and make it look like I've been taking it every day? I just find it dulls my personality, and kind've takes away the lows but the emotional highs. I'm planning on moving overseas next year pretty much just so I can avoid the psychiatrists and their drugs, but I just wonder if I can stop while I'm still here.
 
I'm not a psychiatrist but I would think that a single large dose would cause far more neuro disruption and emotional highs and lows than if you took the medication as prescribed. Often these drugs need many weeks for your brain to adjust and stablise and I expect taking your brain on a rollercoaster would create far more trouble than what it's worth. I suggest either talking to your Dr regarding lowering your dose or perhaps changing your current medication.

I'm not in the position to advice you stop your meds completely. I guess it is an option but I would imagine if you were healthy enough to not be medicated you would have already tried this without sucess. Ask your self what is worse, the way you are on your meds or without?
 
So taking the medication the on the day of the blood test, or just before the blood test won't elevate levels of it in my blood?

I didn't mean taking a huge amount. I'm sure taking it one day a month wouldn't cause too many problems. It's just a matter of will taking them that day be enough to get a lot of the drug in my blood?
 
It would depend on it's half life or how it is metabolised. You might need several days for it to raise your blood to the particular level they test for. I have no idea how sensitive the test is or what they are even testing for. It may not be the drug it self, it may be the by products they are released a day or two later.
 
You are not going to fool a psych into thinking you have been taking your meds when you haven't. They are trained for this kind of thing.

Why don't you just tell them you aren't going to continue taking them? What are they going to do, force them down your throat.
 
Thanks

True. Yeah I wouldn't have thought of that.

Well as far as I know it's just a test to see what levels of the drug are actually present in my blood. I've got my blood test form with me. Whenever I get the blood test they ask me when my last dose was so I sort've thought it would change their measurements if I dosed a lot closer to the test, like right before it, and then lied about. Maybe that would make it seem like I was taking it?

Maybe I should ask the person doing the blood test for advice on this?.. lol
 
You are not going to fool a psych into thinking you have been taking your meds when you haven't. They are trained for this kind of thing.

Why don't you just tell them you aren't going to continue taking them? What are they going to do, force them down your throat.

They can force me into hospital where they will just inject the drug into me if I refuse.
 
They can force me into hospital where they will just inject the drug into me if I refuse.

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't this a violation of your rights? Unless you're a danger to society when you're not on meds, and if that is the case, why are you not taking your meds?
 
Patients taking Clozapine are required to have their white blood cell counts monitored each month, so perhaps the blood test is for that and not to check the levels of the drug in your system.
 
Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't this a violation of your rights? Unless you're a danger to society when you're not on meds, and if that is the case, why are you not taking your meds?
I can't speak for the OP, but certain psychiatric patients have very few "rights".
I'm referring specifically to people involuntarily committed to an institution - a state of effective indefinite imprisonment.

I agree with Busty - attempting to 'trick' the test is far more likely to fuck you up and put your mental health into greater peril.
If you really don't want to be on this medication, perhaps you can discuss this with your psych or if that is not really an option, seek a second opinion?
Sounds like a scary situation, jobe28 - I wish you all the best and hope you can find a treatment option you are comfortable with. Take care <3
 
Are you on a CTO (community treatment order)? If so, then your situation is pretty effed up and they can indeed come and drag you off to the hospital like in the movies (no kidding).
If you're not on a CTO and not acute, then there's no imminent threat and you can pretty much put your foot down and say you won't take it. I would however advise you to be a bit smarter about it though.

In no case should you take excessive doses! Okay :) You may come close to passing the tests with somewhat realistic amounts showing in your blood but it's far too risky due to side effects and with clozapine you're gonna feel like shit and drool all over yourself. Plus if you stuff up and take too much you're gonna draw more attention to yourself, they'll want you back to do more test to make sure they're not overdosing you.
If you wanna go down this path, then take your regular dose in the 2-3 days leading to the blood test. Chances are the dosages will appear to be lower than what they should be but you won't have zero amounts showing up so you can always say you had the shits (hence the reduced absorption), or that you took your last dose many many hours ago (way too early e.g. you were tired and went to bed early) or that you forgot to take the last dose by accident. Be smarter... delay things, muck around and even if you are on a CTO they'll have to be very patient with you, always appear cooperative and nice. You can drag this on for a long time, you only have tests once a month. Forget to take the dose one time, have diarrhoea next, "go visit the relatives out of town on the day of the appointment", tell'em you have to go to a job interview (they can't deny you that), tell them you just got a new job and have to work hard to prove yourself and can't take time off to go to the appointment. If you drop out of the system slowly like this, they are lot less likely to take drastic measures to coerce you into taking the medication. Play their game. Never say you THINK you don't need to take medication, if you feel the urge to show them some attitude then tell them you object taking the drug because of the side effects i.e. risk is greater than benefit. If you tell them you don't think you need meds or are not explicit enough as to why you don't wanna take them, you'll earn instant "lack of insight" points and they'll bag you up.
Other stuff I'd do: tell them you moved and give them a fake address... but something that's realistic, like a friends place. So if they come knocking, you likely won't be there. They will likely come during business hours. If they come knocking you'll know, they're fucking loud and they'll probably come with police backup... they're assholes. LOL, remember your friends won't come to your front door with flashlights like a gang of thugs. Had that happen to me and I thought something horrible happened and they came to tell me someone died and I opened the door... big fucking mistake. Do not open the door (pretend you're not at home), have someone else open the door and say you're not there, you moved out etc.
BTW your profile states you're in qld... you only need to move across the border to nsw. If you're on a CTO that only applies in QLD.
Good luck mate... stay healthy. If drugs make you relapse, don't take them obviously :)
 
^It's amazing that people can be mandated to take these meds against their will. You don't even really have to be a danger to yourself or others to have this type of thing happen to you in many cases. All it takes is a few people who know you to sign a "petition" to have you commited, and then you're "crazy until proven sane".

Once you're in the system and officially deemed "crazy", all sorts of horrible things can happen to you against your will, and much of the time, it's not even a major event that triggers it! There's people left completely untreated that really are a danger to society, and there's people who are pretty much fine that are stripped of their liberty, forcibly medicated and held against their will!

It sucks that they're doing monthly tests for med compliance. Like Kit Kat said, long as you haven't commited a crime, you should be able to give them the slip somehow.
 
Well, yes... the popular belief in the medical community seems to be that if you have a certain mental health problem you must be on the meds indefinitely. I do not subscribe to this theory and definitely don't agree with coercion in the form of community treatment orders. Maybe in the case where people really lack insight they should be given treatment against their will but it should be up to them to decide how they want to be treated when they regain insight. CTOs don't make the distinction between people refusing treatment due to lack of insight and people refusing because they simply don't want to be treated that way or because they are concerned about the long term effects of medication such as antipsychotics.

It's mostly coercion that made me turn away from psychiatry. Coercion simply doesn't work for some people and can be bad for your mental health. Just the idea that someone can force me to take medication sends shivers down my spine and I will try to get as far away as possible. I sought help voluntarily in the past, and for example once I was there in the hospital, lucid and everything, I explained my problem and I wanted to get help but no, I was told that unless I agree to stay there I will become involuntary patient and they'll send the dogs after me. WTF... my attitude changed in a second, from stepping forward asking for treatment I instantly became as cunning as I could trying to get away from it all, no more honesty about my symptoms, therapeutic alliance went down the drain. My recovery was longer than it should be because I worried when the men in white coats are come and gonna get me to the point where I think I was paranoid.
 
Nevermind, I just realized you're not going to a doctor voluntarily.

Are you sure you don't need an antipsychotic?
 
I've lived most of my life just fine without them. And I don't do drugs very much at all so I'm not really at risk of psychosis. So no I don't think I need them.
 
Hopefully I don't sound cunty - but why not just work with your current psych to work off meds slowly or find something that might be more suitable (not dull you as much). It seems that by trying to do this under the radar is just going to end up causing way more trouble and stress than it's worth! Either way good luck with it!
 
yes you can avoid it by moving to NSW. itos come in inpatient and community categories. you're on community (not currently hospitalized). you can tell them you're thinking of moving to nsw and check what their reaction is. maybe they'll release you and you then wont actually have to move.
 
Something else you might be able to look into, is a legal appeal against the order. Might be difficult or not feasible, but just thought it might be worth mentioning. Most any order the government issues can be appealed.

Dunno where in Queensland you are, I've been in the Princess Alexandra mental ward/glorified prison a few times, definitely no fun. But violent resistance or subversion unfortunately doesn't seem to work very well at beating the system. The more you do that the more you're seen as crazy. Probably best to handle it the same way you handle the cops, don't resist or get violent, just document everything, don't do anything to make the situation worse, and take it to the courts.

Being forcibly medicated is a deep fear of mine, I've had it happen to me before as a form of chemical restraint. Anyone who does that to another human being in all but the most exceptional circumstances deserves to burn in hell IMO.

Just some thoughts, I've known a few people with schizophrenia, good people, wish you luck.
 
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