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  • BDD Moderators: Keif’ Richards | negrogesic

Can a Dr. do this? Help please.

B

bhamonion

Bluelighter
Joined
Oct 18, 2015
Messages
24
A mate of mine in USA had been going to 2 different doctors (I know, a boo-boo) but he was not really doc shopping its just they escalated his dose and type over several years.

One doc was the GP and the other was a bone doc. The GP had him on Lortabs (norco) it had been that long and the other had him on Demerol that had been raised to Opana a year or so ago.

Anyway, last week both doc stopped his meds cold turkey! Sent him a letter and said we wont be filling your medicine anymore!!
Needless to say he freaked! Also is now in withdrawal BAD. I'm trying to help but I dont know what to do.
I said goto the ER but he said they would just shine him on as a doc shopper that got caught, but truly thats not the case.

Anyway crew, I need your help in a bad way! What should I tell him to do? It hurts to see my mate in such a bad way that I almost want to stop by the doc's offices and give them a good smack. Yet he needs me help and not sitting in the clink waiting on bail.

My question is, can a doctor just cut you off cold turkey?

Thanks everyone.
 
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Yeah I have heard of things like this happening with people who receive MAINLY prescription opioids from two or more docs, but I thought it was only considered "doctor shopping" if the patient was receiving the same exact meds from 2 or more docs... like 3 different doctors giving one person a month supply of opana each, not so much someone getting lortabs from one doc and Demerol/opana from a whole different type of doc. That is fucked.. hope your friend can find a way out of that BS. And I believe doctors can pretty much do as they please with their patients I have been threatened to be kicked out by my old sub doc twice but he never did because I continuously failed my UAs for coke and opiates/oxy. But he was nice enough to let me keep coming back and didn't kick me off any of my meds.
 
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I would tell them I didn't know I did something wrong and that I was in pain and was just doing what they said to improve his quality of life. And that now looking at it from their point of view you see how you screwed up and that you are sorry. I would ask one to at least help him get off the meds so he doesn't get sick even if he doesn't want to keep helping with pain long term. Or suggest a pain specialist so you can get help and that you don't want your quality of life to be punished for a mistake. Basically admit you screwed up though you didn't think of it that way or do it on purpose, say you will do whatever they ask of you, and beg for forgiveness.

It will probably depend on the Dr, why he is getting pain meds, and if at any time they asked what meds he was on and he didn't list the other narcotic on purpose. I'm surprised the pharmacist filled them both for as long as they did. There is now a database where pharmacists can see any other prescriptions whether they filled it or not. Dr can see it as well if inclined. 2 pain meds from 2 Dr's is a pretty big red flag.

If he is that sick he can find a methadone or subutex clinic so he can get off them a little more comfortably. The methadone should help some with pain. In time he can probably find a pain specialist that will take him on but he will need to be completely honest with what happened and again apologize and say he will do anything so not to be punished for a mistake and have to live in pain.

It used to be that HIPPA was to protect a person's privacy. Now it takes away any privacy as long as someone is a 'medical professional' and anything you tell a doctor in confidence goes into a database for any other Dr to see. Or whoever the government deems necessary so as to know as much about a person as possible if they feel the need to know about them. I have lots of health problems and I think long and hard about what I tell a Dr because I don't want a label for the rest of my life.
 
It just really seems like BS that a dr. can hook you and then just cut you off.
What was that thing that went the way of God in schools, 'do no harm?'

You would think that the oath would have a say, that yes you have been bad but we are not going to put you in so much pain that you commit suicide. (but load up on your 'high capacity ROCK' for a few docs first!)

'JUST KIDDING' in case the suits in the cheap seats are watching...


​Thanks everyone for the help. It truly means a lot.
 
Crack'r said:
It used to be that HIPPA was to protect a person's privacy.
Click to expand...

Could not agree more Crack'r! Just like the Patriot Act was to protect us against terrorists.
Now its for/was/is something that allows the the NSA to read you like a Playboy mag while sitting on the crapper.

America the free? right.....
 
Seeing as how it isn't a benzo or alcohol then while wd feels like dying the person isn't really dying (unless they choose that route on their own which is sad but happens) so chances are neither doctor will take back a dropped patient. Too many care more about their career and the DEA than their Hippocratic oath. Your friend could go to the ER but at best they may get supportive meds, same with a GP but that's more affordable. There are tips here on BL too but short of scoring or finding a new doc or getting into a maintenance program the piper is calling in the debt. It's almost standard that EVERY doctor asks what current meds are at the start of each appt and controlled drugs require regular assessments in office so unless one is a new script the situation looks bad and even with a new script some doctors won't excuse such a mistake. It's a hard lesson. Stay in touch with your friend to encourage them to either see it through or seek help. The first two weeks are the roughest but it gets easier as many symptoms will be gone or manageable by then. The first 2-3 days are worst for those drugs IMO. Hang in there.
 
That is a tough route. I hope that he can find a maintenance/pain clinic to get into.
Any advice for that?
 
In the US he's gonna most likely be required to be referred from his primary care doctor so if he doesn't have one now he could either start new or go to an urgent care center first, get the supportive meds needed and often times urgent cares can provide a list of local PCPs accepting new patients. I've seen some that are connected to clinics and get them into a practice quick. The sooner he gets his family doc set up the sooner he gets a referral to pain management. For maintenance programs they each have their own way of doing things so it's best to contact them directly. That's one way to maybe get better meds faster but as a pain management patient myself I wouldn't want to add it to my history because of the connotation. I support them though as an effective way to manage pain. I just find most medical professionals too close minded for understanding their value in that regard.
 
You are supposed to disclose all medications to each Dr. Had they done that only one would have prescribed pain killers. The fact that the person chose to hide the script from the other Dr. Says a lot to them. The patient broke the rules by withholding their med list so yes they have every right to cut off.
 
My3sons said:
You are supposed to disclose all medications to each Dr. Had they done that only one would have prescribed pain killers. The fact that the person chose to hide the script from the other Dr. Says a lot to them. The patient broke the rules by withholding their med list so yes they have every right to cut off.
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^ Yes and like Crack'r said, with prescription drug monitoring systems in place, I'm surprised he didn't get caught sooner. Doctors can and will discharge a person for doing this. Whether it was intentional or not, he's going to be hard pressed to find another doctor to take him seriously.
 
Exactly and I blame the doctors for this. They are covering their own asses. They knew darn well about each other. You would have to be blind not too but I digress, the problem is the doctors (term used loosely here) just dropping him like a hot spud. With no support.

'Here, I've hooked you on a powerful narcotic and because my ass MIGHT be on the line I'm dropping you like I never knew you'.
 
The patient is responsible for telling the Drs. What meds they are on. Do you honestly think that Drs go private eye and out of their way to bust patients? of course not. I would bet the pharmacy called the Drs office. Happens at my job all the time because they want to know the reason why our patients are getting scripted pain killers and if it's legit. I guarantee there was one hard on pharm tech that was all hell no not on my watch and they called the Drs. Then they cut him off because patients are a dime a dozen and they're covering their ass. they dont care that your friend is in wd. It's all about the money. It's sad but true. Not saying all docs don't care but most don't. It cracks me up when our patients want the docs opinion on what they should get (plastic surgeon) how can you be so naive to not realize he will tell you the most expensive thing! After working in the medical industry I have no respect for most Drs. They're cheap fucks too! I could go on and on!
 
I know when I go to the doctor the 'nurse' not even the doctor pulls up on the computer in the room every drug that I have had filled. so to say the doc did not know is BS. Its like having a drug dealer that is a cop and one day he decides that is enough and busts you for some obscure law. they say, 'ignorance of the law is no excuse' BUT I think that the docs should explain the things that a PT needs to know.
Like, yes I know you get meds from me and dr. X and thats ok, because I see the pharm report every time you come in but sometime in the future I will stop and tell dr. X to stop too and leave your as out to dry. Just utter BS and your right, its all about the money. As the insurance companies control everything.
 
Depends on the Dr. A lot of them are old school paper charts still. Too cheap to buy all the new technology and too set in their ways. Lol at the thought of my Drs spending the money for new computer systems!
 
As to whether doctors have integrated the technology to check on filled scripts, I'm pretty sure it depends on the state that you're in.
 
chelle216 said:
As to whether doctors have integrated the technology to check on filled scripts, I'm pretty sure it depends on the state that you're in.
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^True. There is though only one state that does not have the prescription drug monitoring program in place but I'm sure that'll change soon.
 
It's not mandatory that they integrate but if it hasn't already happened it will that they will be paid less by medicare for not integrating. It's basically a fine for not integrating. I suppose it depends on what percent of your patient load is Medicare on how much it would impact the practice. We are well over 50% cosmetic. Of course the gov't encourages integration bc of stuff like this. Some Drs are dropping insurance all together and leaving it up to the patient to worry about reimbursement. The docs are all crying poverty in the US because the insurance companies keep paying out less. It annoying to listen to them complain. I have a hard time having empathy when all your kids drive mercedes or Bmws as teenagers and their wine cellar is bigger than my house, and the season opera tickets, $600 dollar dinner tabs, 4 car garage houses. Must really be hard! The squallor!!!!
 
Did he sign a pain contract? If so did he violate any of the mandates in them? This would be the time to re-read any pain contracts he may have signed. What he is doing as far as I know can be considered possible illegal especially if he was going to a pain doctor or pain clinic. If he did not remember signing a pain contract he may have a bit more wiggle room especially when he is explaining the situation to a new doctor. Unfortunately these days pain contract or not if you go doctor shopping you will be let go at some point. It would have been much easier if he had had told his doc about the other meds. He may of even let it slide as I have seen it before. Being dropped by a doctor because of this has a lot to do with the specific rules and regulations of each medical facility he may have gotten meds from. Many go over the rules at the beginning of treatment making sure you understand by obtaining your SIGNATURE.

Pretty messed up they did not help him find a new doc or get a referral to some type of addiction treatment. Moral of the story is if you are receiving controlled substances especially from a pain doc inform them of every single prescription you receive from any other doctor. As well only get your painkillers prescribed by one doc. What happens is after awhile the doc can just look up on a monitoring system to find all the controlled meds you are prescribed. Then shit goes down and sometimes they call the cops or inform the DEA. This can be very serious.

The first thing that happened when I got a narcotic from a pain doc was to sign a controlled substances contract that was rather straight forward. The medical tech muttered under her breath something about me signing my life away. I told him I was also receiving lortab from my PCP. He said that was fine as he knew who my PCP was and they communicated regularly. That was back in 2006 before things got so strict. What makes this specific situation even more serious is it involved schedule 2 medications.
 
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I would definitely go to the ER or an urgent care and have him inform them that he is seeking a new doctor as well as other forms of non medication based pain treatment. Bring this information about his plans with him like paper work, referrals to the new doc or a print out from their webpage. He can also inform them he will be seeking some type of addiction treatment. They may be able to give him enough so he can get through until he can find a new prescriber.

If he can not find a new prescriber methadone, suboxone or abstinence may be his next step. He is also possible already flagged as a doctor shopper in what ever type of systems they use for that these days.
 
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