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Calculus for Someone Who's Out of Touch in Math?

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SirTophamHat

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Feb 2, 2010
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Hey guys. Just a quick question, or you could say a survey of opinions that I'm looking for here. I'm enrolled in an entry-level calculus class this spring as a pre-requisite for a post-bac certificate program I'm interested in. I haven't taken math in six years and while I was always okay at it (placed ahead in classes in middle/high school) I was never great at it, always earning Bs, never As. The most advanced math I've taken is pre-calculus.

I'm kind of worried that learning calculus after an extended layoff with no real innate skill or passion for math will be quite difficult. The thing is, I've had numerous people tell me that "calc is different," "calc isn't hard," "I know X, Y, and Z who took calc and loved it even though they were normally bad at math," etc.

Is this true? If one does the homeworks, or let's just say puts the time in, is calculus more like fun mental exercises? I plan on starting to study by myself a week before class begins in any case.

Thanks for your thoughts.
 
I think calculus is pretty traditional math, I wouldn't agree with someone who said that calculus was fun or easy even for someone "bad at math". However, I do think its totally do-able and that even someone who is "bad at math" can still be successful at it.

Doing calculus requires doing a lot of algebra, sometimes pretty complex algebra. I think that is likely to be your biggest hurdle. You probably remember how to do algebra, in general, but there are a lot of very specific rules you will probably be expected to apply for things like simplifying expressions or dealing with polynomials. I would suggest you spend that extra study week reviewing pre-calculus and algebra stuff. Maybe your professor will do a little bit of review of that stuff along with the new material. I wouldn't worry about getting a head start on the actual calculus though, I bet the lectures and homework will cover that stuff just fine. Just focus on making sure you are as up-to-date as you can be on the underlying material, the algebra and such, so that you can make the most of the lectures and not get bogged down in stuff the instructor is assuming that you already know/understand.
 
Although I do not have a degree in business, for several semesters in undergrad I was a business major. For some reason, the university I attended required all business majors to take calculus. This was the one class I dreaded taking. I ended up taking calculus for natural sciences my sophomore year because I heard it was a little easier than business calculus and the credits still counted. Anyways, eventually toward the final part of the semester it all clicked for me and I think I pulled a B-.

But it bit me in the ass later on. Two years later I had to take an intermediate price theory course and the prof got mad at everyone for NOT remembering a damn thing about calculus. This time I was supposed to apply what I learned previously, but I didn't remember any of it. Made a D in that course and dropped business as a major. Never regretted doing that.

My advice: If it's required for your major you have two choices. Either take it or change majors. I could care less which option you choose. But I'm not one of the ones who thought calculus was fun. It intimidated the hell out of me and my prof looked like Wilfred Brimley, which made it even more intimidating. However I believed in myself and took it and came out with that B-.

I think you are doing the right thing by studying up on it before the semester begins. You may want to look into the history of calculus and try to learn things about its origins that would not be covered in an introductory course. Good luck. Don't forget to bump this thread in May to let us know how you did.
 
scureto1 said:
I think calculus is pretty traditional math, I wouldn't agree with someone who said that calculus was fun or easy even for someone "bad at math". However, I do think its totally do-able and that even someone who is "bad at math" can still be successful at it.

Doing calculus requires doing a lot of algebra, sometimes pretty complex algebra. I think that is likely to be your biggest hurdle. You probably remember how to do algebra, in general, but there are a lot of very specific rules you will probably be expected to apply for things like simplifying expressions or dealing with polynomials. I would suggest you spend that extra study week reviewing pre-calculus and algebra stuff. Maybe your professor will do a little bit of review of that stuff along with the new material. I wouldn't worry about getting a head start on the actual calculus though, I bet the lectures and homework will cover that stuff just fine. Just focus on making sure you are as up-to-date as you can be on the underlying material, the algebra and such, so that you can make the most of the lectures and not get bogged down in stuff the instructor is assuming that you already know/understand.
Click to expand...

This ^ posted before I was done typing mine.

Yeah, I would also look into algebra and old precalc notes in addition to the history.
 
I think going over algebra and pre-calc before the class starts instead is good advice! I'm anticipating a bit of a struggle anyway, so if I can avoid mucking stuff up that isn't actually the main lesson (but still counts), all the better. The course is named "Fundamentals of Calculus" so I'm guessing/hoping that it will cover stuff at a slowish pace.

I'm definitely not going to drop the class, or if I do it's because all hell breaks loose. The program I want to complete is for med lab science; there is basically no math in the program. They just don't want idiots applying. I'll do my best to update this thread if I can remember to do so.

re: majors: I have an undergrad degree but it doesn't offer the employment opportunities I need. Getting into this program is by no means guaranteed and a big piece of my application puzzle is passing this course, hence the concern.
 
If you're in a quandary over whether to take trig or college algebra before calculus, take college algebra. Seriously; I think my biggest mistake when I took calc was waiting too long after I took college algebra (which was also difficult for me), when the most important mathematical tools I'd learned had gotten rusty. I scraped by calculus with a C, and would've failed if the prof had been a hard-ass.
 
I get confused by people saying "algebra before calc/algebra is simpler than calc." ORLY? Linear algebra is easier than calc? Linear operators over vector spaces are more introductory than finding the slope of a curve?

</snobbery>

I dunno man, calc is hard if you have bad prof/bad T.A.'s. I hated it in high school and found it very difficult. But once I got into university, and had some *good* profs and T.A.'s and the fact that the calc was not just arbitrary drills but was actually really fucking useful. At this stage, I love math, indeed, I'm diagram chasing right now. (Category theory, yay!)
 
The more proficient you become the more you will enjoy it, as you will see its usefulness. If you only do a half-arsed job you will end up highly resenting it. At least that's from personal experience and observation.

Youtube is your best friend. There are countless high-quality introductory lessons on there, ie: Khanacademy.

First though download a first-year calculus course-outline from any university which will give you structure and goals. Then go through simple Youtube tutorials, then harder ones, then when you're confident enough go through the full lectures put up for free by various institutions (ie: MIT). Finally print off some question sheets and test yourself repeatedly.

In a couple of months you will be worthy of wearing a nerd-cape and be able to swim through the ether of first-year mathematics like some badass.

Good luck, and may your God or Gods be with you.
 
^

Yeah, MIT offers great courses material online, lectures and all.

Coursea.org also offers courses for free, from reputable universitys w prof/someone you can email w questions.

Check them both out and get an intro calc and intro algebra before you pay for the courses and risk getting a low mark on your for reals transcript.
 
My age is showing here but when I took calc, I don't think cable internet or dsl had been invented yet so youtube and shit like this didn't exist. Thanks for mentioning these resources.
 
rangrz said:
At this stage, I love math, indeed, I'm diagram chasing right now. (Category theory, yay!)
Click to expand...
Hooray for Snakes, they become much more awesome.

The pre-calculus integral-sign/snake gets boring very easiliy.
 
Lolwut?

How does the sign itself it become boring? Simple integration of trivial functions becomes boring, but the symbol itself?

I'm not sure why you quoted me either, commutative diagrams, and more generally, category theory, is not pre-calculus and is arguably one of the more advanced and interesting areas of mathematics.
 
Ah, sorry...I didn't get it cause the integral sign to me looks more like a S or a F or like the holes in violins...and I'm use seeing it in gags like [integral sign] (e)x=fu/n which reinforces that for me.

So it went over my head, but ya,it does look like a snake and I do recall it being referred to aS such.

I just had a hard time tying it together until you spelled it out.
 
SirTophamHat said:
Hey guys. Just a quick question, or you could say a survey of opinions that I'm looking for here. I'm enrolled in an entry-level calculus class this spring as a pre-requisite for a post-bac certificate program I'm interested in. I haven't taken math in six years and while I was always okay at it (placed ahead in classes in middle/high school) I was never great at it, always earning Bs, never As. The most advanced math I've taken is pre-calculus.

I'm kind of worried that learning calculus after an extended layoff with no real innate skill or passion for math will be quite difficult. The thing is, I've had numerous people tell me that "calc is different," "calc isn't hard," "I know X, Y, and Z who took calc and loved it even though they were normally bad at math," etc.

Is this true? If one does the homeworks, or let's just say puts the time in, is calculus more like fun mental exercises? I plan on starting to study by myself a week before class begins in any case.

Thanks for your thoughts.
Click to expand...


Interesting. I was in the same position at the beginning of this semester, had been 6 years since I had last taken (or rather, completed) a math class as well. I'm killing it in Calculus, my grade is actually higher than 100%, and I believe the highest in the class thus far. It really isn't too bad, I kind of enjoy the challenge.


edit: I know I'm a little late to the party, but study the fuck out of your trig, particularly the common angles and identities. Learn how from the product-to-sum and quotient rules you can figure out the double and half-angle identities, if you want a challenge and want to learn how to rely on memory a little bit less. Algebra is logical, you never really forget it entirely, but trig requires a fuckload of easy to forget memorization tactics, and those do not come back without some practice.
 
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