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Misc Caffeine vs ephedrine vs modafinil or other stims for adhd/depressive symptoms.

R

RacerAtom

Greenlighter
Joined
May 26, 2009
Messages
42
Location
England
I've been experiencing chronic fatigue/adhd/depression like symptoms which have been affecting me for some time now, eg tiredness (sometimes bouts of excessive daytime sleepiness), difficulty concentrating, hypersomnia, apathy/anhedonia and I am looking for something that I can take occassionally to help me function throughout the main part of the day so I can work part time and socialise more (evenings are less of a problem as I can just chill out). This should help me on getting my life back on track which may have a more long lasting effect on these symptoms.

Unless you can think of any better readily available alternatives (legal ones) the aforementioned stimulants seem like the only choices. No chance of my doctor prescribing me anything with better efficacy or tolerability like amphetamines.

I'm prescribed anxiolytics and propranolol to be used prn which I can take alongside them to counteract any anxiogenic or sympathomimetic effects that may arise from them.

Do you guys have any experience of using similar stimulants for fatigue/depression/adhd?
 
You need to address underlying causes of your excessive daytime sleepiness. There are a plethora of factors including diet, lack of exercise, sleep schedule, and possible vitamin-deficient problems you may need to address with your doctor. Trust me, you'd be surprised how good you can feel naturally; without DA stimulation.

If you insist on using these stimulants, I would have to say that the peripheral affects and subsequent crash of both caffeine and ephedrine make them not advisable; however, I believe that a modafinil regimen would be suitable if you want something to augment to your regimen to counter any lethargic side effects caused by your other medications.

Good luck!
 
I'm working on my exercise, diet and sleep schedule at the moment, but I need a band aid to help me function through important events (and help achieve the former too!). I don't get any side effects like sedation from the benzos and phenibut and my use of them is ocassional anyway so I know that is not part of the problem. Modafinil would probably be my first choice but that all depends on whether my doctor will prescribe it. He wouldn't even prescribe bupropion. Another possible option I have thought of is the prn use of the antidepressant selegiline/rasagiline or moclobemide as they are both stimulating, the latter being approved here for depression/anxiety. As far as the daytime sleepiness goes, there is sometimes a bout of it in the evening after dinner but if I lie down for a while even without sleeping I recover an hour or two later.
 
RacerAtom said:
Modafinil would probably be my first choice but that all depends on whether my doctor will prescribe it. He wouldn't even prescribe bupropion. Another possible option I have thought of is the prn use of the antidepressant selegiline/rasagiline or moclobemide as they are both stimulating, the latter being approved here for depression/anxiety. As far as the daytime sleepiness goes, there is sometimes a bout of it in the evening after dinner but if I lie down for a while even without sleeping I recover an hour or two later.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure why a doctor would prescribe any of these drugs if he won't prescribe Bupropion; especially a very dangerous MAOI without prior indication for Major Depressive Disorder and first-line treatment for that.

You need to discuss this with your doctor. I'd advise a sleep study to ensure that you're getting the proper sleep at night; this could easily cause the symptoms you're describing. Also, you need to continue on the good habits; a lot of things are simple mindset issues -- as tough as that is to believe.

Honestly, if you're needing treatment for this -- Methylphenidate would be an excellent candidate and it is not very neurotoxic. I'd write: Concerta (Methylphenidate ER)36mg. and #30 Methylphenidate IR PO PRN (to counter daytime sleepiness)

I am prescribed #120 Amphetamine Salts 30mg. PO qid for this purpose and it works well.

Also, you can buy modafinil's precursor, adrafinil, legally in the USA at least (not sure about UK) as it is not not scheduled.

Good luck!
 
Bupropion isn't licenced for depression in the UK, so that's probably why he won't prescribe it. Modafinil is approved however for excessive daytime sleepiness and shift work sleep disorder. Moclobemide is not a particularly dangerous MAOI, it's MAO-A selective, doesn't require the dietery restrictions of the older MAOIS and is approved for depression and social anxiety (which is partially why I'm precribed anxiolytics in the first place).

Modafinil is not scheduled here but I would like to avoid potentially dodgy online pharmacies. Afrafinil can cause liver damage so I'd avoid that anyway.

Amphetamines are the obvious choice in effectiveness and safety, but there's very little chance of being prescribed them in this country.
 
nootropics are another option; thing is there are not many people with a lot of experience with them.

Check out alpha-gpc, acetyl-l-carnitine, bacopa, aniracetam, piracetam, lecithin, and huperzine.
 
I was prescribed modafinil for extreme lethargy associated with depression. I was sleeping for up to 20hrs at a time and often literally could not be woken. I was not on any sedating meds at that time and it was solely due to depression.

The modafinil helped in a limited way. Although in my opinion, it would have been better just to take something like pseudo-ephedrine. Modafinil is very subtle.
 
Also, since being on bupropion for a few months, I am generally less tired. Certainly I have alot more trouble sleeping and cannot sleep in or nap during the day. It has helped more with fatigue than modafinil ever did.
 
piracetam is a life saver sometimes. I also enjoy taking modafinil early on in the day, I find it is easier to take modafinil than drink a few shots of espresso.
 
A friend of mine with severe ADHD, previously prescribed Adderall, found relief with ephedrine, saying it almost feels like it. Chemically, it is structured similarly, but its hydroxyl group makes it less likely to permeate the blood brain barrier. This means you need to take enough to damage your cardiovascular system (over time) to get ADHD relief.

For example, she had to take 50mg, and she's 85 pounds, which would destroy her heart over time. When I take 25mg I can feel chest pains, and I'm 195 pounds. Someone with my weight would have to take 100mg to get the same relief she did.
 
Have you seen a sleep doctor? You could have sleep apnea or other sleep related issues that you are not aware of, also, if you take a MSLT test and can prove idiopathic hypersomnia the sleep doctor should have no problem prescribing you whatever you want. As another poster suggested I would go with Concerta(it is like an extended release Ritalin but lasts longer).
 
Get to see a sleep doctor in the UK? I am more likely to win the lottery. I am going to use an oximeter to see if I suffer from any obvious sleep apnea though.
 
Hello, New here to this site. I am being tested for extreme daytime fatigue. Some days are so bad, that it is hard to get moving at all, til noon. I had one sleep study, and I have mild sleep apnea, and am going to be checked for narcolepsy. I have add, mild bi polar, and obsessive compulsive. I had a cpap machine, but since the test, first sleep test, said mild sleep apnea, the doctor feels that I may have narcolepsy. I have taken concerta, and provigil, along with a bit of lithium, a small amount of two blood pressure meds, that have been greatly reduced, since I have taken the provigil, does anyone know if there is anything from GNC, or Puritans Pride, or Vitamin World, that is similar to concerta? I sometimes, need one more a day than I am prescribed, so tired, and then have a week without any and am really tired. I know I will run out, and I do take provigil, as well, but keep thinking that I will feel better, and not need any extra, which is probably somewhat true, in a way, but also , I need to not run out, probably part of the ocd, or bi. Can anyone offer any help, for a week of fatigue. I don't want to be high, just alert, and working. I have provigil, wonder how much is ok, have taken my prescribed dose today, and still very tired. Thanks, Peace.
 
I know this my not be what you want to hear but, being as I've experienced similar issues as you, I've found the best way and the only way to produce lasting effects for years to come is to avoid self medicating (at least initially until you've tried non pharmacological methods). Start scheduling regular sleep hours whether or not you remain asleep during the whole period. Keeping to a regular schedule will reduce stress and help your mind to function at a higher level. Also in combination of this one easy step, avoid caffeine, alcohol, cigs, etc, eat a healthy balanced meal everyday. Instead of a cup of coffee in the morning eat an apple with a nutritious breakfast, as it really is the most important meal of the day. Always have a snack on you so you can keep yourself full of energy through out the day. Reduce the amount of food you eat at lunch and dinner because you'll be adding snacks in as additional eating times (no need to fatten yourself up). Make sure you are getting exercise everyday, even if that means a 30 minute walk, but to make it more exciting mix up your routines, find a buddy who will commit with you to exercise with you, even if it's only once or twice a week he/she can join. When at home don't let yourself sit on the couch the whole day, get up and move. After reading a chapter in a book, move to another room. Sit outside and enjoy the sun light who you can as you'll notice an increase in energy purely from that.

I know all this sounds cliche and harder than taking a supplement, but this is a way healthier and smarter way of makings life long change to your health. Not only will your fatigue start to go away, but you'll feel 1000x better. It will become easier to find things to do, you'll notice the time it takes to complete a task decreases, guys or girls will be more likely to be all over you (sex is another great activity to partake in), etc. You won't find the results you would get from this with drugs. If anything they will make your problems worse in the long run.

Sorry if this isn't what you wanted to hear

Btw, I'm severely ADHD, have anxiety (but this method is helping it out), just overcame a deep depression where I almost killed myself and I struggle with severe RLS and PLMS. I prefer not to use stimulant drugs cuz in e long run they make living functional even harder. With my RLS and PLMS I struggle with sleeping as well and eating right, sleeping on a schedule, not consuming caffeine or alcohol, and exercising makes a noticeable difference in the quality of my sleep as well as the energy I wake up with.

Also no doctor or no reasonable doctor will script you amphetamines, or methylphenidate with what your describing. Stimulant drugs can make anxiety and depression way worse so they prefer to avoid them. Depression is also seen as a potential sign that the patient may start abusing the medication as well, which doctors will avoid like the plague.
 
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