• 🇳🇿 🇲🇲 🇯🇵 🇨🇳 🇦🇺 🇦🇶 🇮🇳
    Australian & Asian
    Drug Discussion


    Welcome Guest!
    Posting Rules Bluelight Rules
  • AADD Moderators: swilow | Vagabond696

caffeine to make no.4 heroin smokable.

Cheers for the replies guys, Nabollocks I appreciate your wisdom man. I wont say "I'll never get addicted" but at this point in my life its hard enough to sustain my addiction to weed an cigarettes and keep a roof over my head let alone a how ever many hundred dollar a day smack addiction.
DNAenterprises that is good shit to hear, I will most definately be smoking then, I do have a crackpipe, I actually think I want to chase the shit off foil again though, just for the experience. Weirdly when I did it it didn't really melt, like browny yellow liquid come off it but the rock sort of smouldered on the spot, its sort of hard to explain.
I've pretty much got this down-pat I think, but I have just a few more questions (*sigh* I know) in regards to using a crackpipe to smoke it. Would the technique be basically exactly the same as smoking ice? (which I know how to do)
Also should I burn rocks or powder? Will the smack leave much nasty residue to clean from my pipe? And last but not least if there was a little meth residue left in my pipe would this synergize well with smack or just counteract it so I have to smoke more heroin to get high?
 
drug_mentor said:
Cheers for the replies guys, Nabollocks I appreciate your wisdom man. I wont say "I'll never get addicted" but at this point in my life its hard enough to sustain my addiction to weed an cigarettes and keep a roof over my head let alone a how ever many hundred dollar a day smack addiction.
DNAenterprises that is good shit to hear, I will most definitely be smoking then, I do have a crackpipe, I actually think I want to chase the shit off foil again though, just for the experience. Weirdly when I did it it didn't really melt, like browny yellow liquid come off it but the rock sort of smouldered on the spot, its sort of hard to explain.
I've pretty much got this down-pat I think, but I have just a few more questions (*sigh* I know) in regards to using a crackpipe to smoke it. Would the technique be basically exactly the same as smoking ice? (which I know how to do)
Also should I burn rocks or powder? Will the smack leave much nasty residue to clean from my pipe? And last but not least if there was a little meth residue left in my pipe would this synergize well with smack or just counteract it so I have to smoke more heroin to get high?

Yep same as ice, maybe different melting point though. just experiment. You'll crust up your pipe bad though, foil is better. Rocks or powder doesn't matter, it'll melt into a liquid then gas exactly the same. Tiny bit of meth in the pipe won't make any difference, clean your pipe out with alcohol swabs.
You mentioned you were going to score in Melbourne's inner suburbs, be VERY careful there, read this....
http://www.theage.com.au/national/i...o-stamp-out-drugs-assaults-20081029-5b9k.html

I'm not sure if I'm allowed to offer you geographical tips, but Bulldogs territory is in a different shire. But BE CAREFULL where ever you go man, the street heroin market is the seediest drug market there is IMO. Don't let anyone take your money until the gear is in your hand even if they say "I've just gotta go to that flat/car/dude/pub/shop across the road" Open the package and look at it. Taste a tiny little bit so you'll know for next time. If it's in a balloon, say you wanna see it and make them open it. Act with confidence but not cocky. You'll probably be able to do the whole deal without skipping a step walking down the street in under 30 seconds. Be prepared to eat it if you get pounced on.
 
Might stick with the foil if it will crust up my pipe badly. I wont likely be scoring personally as a close friend frequents one of these areas for other reasons and although they don't use heroin, are more acquainted with the scene from the time they have spent there. Obviously, as they are doing me this favour I wont be insisting they check the gear before giving $$ or any shit like that which could possibly get someone rolled or whatever lol. I guess if its dud I'll have to live with it, and hope to god it aint fentanyl or something lol.
 
what is the actual purpose of the caffeine, chemically speaking? not sure its the best idea to combine caffeine (a stimulant) with heroin. well, its a weak stimulant, but too much might 'damage' the heroin high.

from my experience, melbourne heroin smokes just fine.. and there doesn't seem to be a significant loss of potency.
 
^ Adding caffeine to heroin #4 lowers the melting point enough that it's suitable to smoke. The mix has to be just right though.

Given the amounts used (when ratios are mentioned, keep in mind they refer to pure quantities of smack, not the cut/filler as well), the caffeine probably wouldn't do much. ;)
 
^ Check the heroin mega thread in OD, I linked to it on the first page of this thread. Basically heroin that's meant for IV/snorting, can't be smoked without some preparation.
 
johnnyonelove said:
what is the actual purpose of the caffeine, chemically speaking? not sure its the best idea to combine caffeine (a stimulant) with heroin. well, its a weak stimulant, but too much might 'damage' the heroin high.

The reason is to bring the MP down as low as possible so you don't burn your gear. (I need to find a reference for this, but I know it true;) )

Caffeine actually aids the absorbtion of many chemicals, H included. Do a search on google. And I can assure you that no amount of caffeine is going to interfere with your H. In fact, the more caffeine the better if you ask me :) I used to drink 8 espresso shots and 2 pots of tea a day when I was using.

It feels very natural and "right". Far nicer than coke or amp.

The HCl salt of H has a much higher melting point than the base, but obviously the HCl salt is far more water soluable, hence good for up-nose or injecting. This is the reason you normally add caffeine to the HCl. It can still be smoked without the caffeine but you normally end up burning a lot of your gear.
 
^ Interesting... have you ever found the caffeine to somehow make any histamine reaction a bit worse?

For what it's worth, drinking a can of coke just before or with my codeine brings it on much faster, but I always put that down to it being carbonated.
 
Doofus, et al: The numbering system for heroin was developed by the US DEA. Here is the system:

#1: Morphine Freebase or Morphine HCl.

#2: Heroin Freebase.

#3: Heroin specifically prepared for smoking at the POM (point of manufacture). The technical requirement is a 60:40 mix with 60 representing the amount of heroin (as Mr. Blond correctly noted).

#4: Heroin specifically prepared for injection, i.e. any salt other than the Acetate, but almost always Hcl.

A couple of notes...The reason why #1 is morphine and not heroin per se is because at the time that this system was devised, in the very early 1970s, morphine and morphine freebase were specific illcit commodities themselves, and used in the production of heroin.

Unlike now, most heroin was made from morphine bought from illicit producers rather than the illicit manufacturers of heroin extracting morphine from opium themselves as an intermediate step in the production of heroin. Today there is only one tiny area of the world where morphine/morphine freebase remains a commodity in and of itself. While morphine freebase is still manufactured for sale in Wa Country in Mynammar (Burma), it is now only sold to Malaysian operators who manufacture #3, in the jungles on the Thai/Malaysian border country.

Indeed, this is the only place in the world where you can still see actual #3. Even in its traditional stronghold and place of invention, Hong Kong it is not gone forever. Aside from the 60:40 mix it also almost always has quinine and strychnine for flavour, and barbitone for potentiation. They no longer use colouring but at one time you could see purple, grey, bright red, and a pearl sheen which were used as a marketing ploy/trademark.

When the numbering system was devised "Tar Heroin" had not been invented. Technically it qualifies as #4 because it is made for injection, although the main objective is to turn a buck and not any kind of ultimate design for consumption.

Tar is NOT acetylated opium as many think. It is made via the use of a poor GAA (meaning other than AA also known as Acetic Anhydride) and a much different temp and time for the "cook" (acetylysation) which is performed without a Reflux Apparattus, which in turn selectively acetylses the opium given it a very high percentage of the MAMs (3 and 6) so that it is truly deserving of a revision in the classification system, but I am sure we will never see that.

Since this is "Aussie and Asia" I am sure we have some people who are familiar with yet another type of heroin, "Homebaked Heroin" which is basically "Tar" except that it is usually made from codeine instead of morphine.

Using O-demetylation they convert the codeine into morphine (or rather revert it since commercial codeine is usually made from morphine), then itis heated usually using AA (unlike "Tar"), but like "Tar" without Reflux. This is what is responsible for the black and gummy consistency.

One final note on the types, "Homebaked" USED to also come in a pink tar form when Diconal was used for the precursor but since Diconal has gone the way of the Dodo it is always black today...although "Homebaked" also seems to be going the way of the Dodo due to the increased availability of pepared heroin in Oz and NZ.

A note on the potentiation of heroin for smoking: #4 as has already been discussed, needs to have its MP (Melting Point) and VP (Vapourisation Point) brought into alignment, or you waste much of the heroin. By the time it melts, it has vapourised long before so that there is little if any active substance to metabolise.

Caffeine is the potentiator used by commercial manufactuers of #3, but any substance , inert or otherwise, that offers a lower MP will help in this quest. You can use the MP of caffeine hcl. as a guideline for which substance to use, and adjust porportions based on the 40% caffeine hcl. requirement. If it has a lower MP, you can use less of the potentiator, if has a higher MP you need to use more and so on.

Per the form used by the OP, that was smoked in the past, it was probably #2, heroin freebase since #3 is exceedingly rare, now only found in 2 Malaysian cities although it is not inconceivable that it would have made its way to Australia given its proximity to Malaysia, etc.

#2 can be smoked without any alteration whatsoever because of freebase's natural MP. It can also be insufflated without any alteration because the nasal mucous salinity naturally adjusts the pH. Injection though requires an acidic catalyst. Usually citirc acid is used.

As for where to locate caffeine hcl., I feel it does not skirt the "No Sourcing" rule to state that one can find Rx pure caffeine hcl in bulk form in many health food stores as well as in Wholesale Pharmacies and the like. Oz has stringent controls so I would imagine one would have to limit one's self to a personal use amount (which is what I imagine the OP is discussing in any event), and locate it domesetically to avoid running afoul of regulations or even laws.


Good luck.
 
Last edited:
^ I think most of the heroin we get imported into Oz is #4, I read that in an Australian Federal Police document once.
 
Thanks for the kind words. Again Mr. Blonde is correct, #4 has an amazing market share in Australia, in the high 90th percentile. In fact, it has some of the best heroin purity and prcing in the world as far as a non-source country. My last time up in Cambodia they were picking off Taiwanese and Viet Namese at the airport like flies, body packing pack to Austrlia. In fact, those 2 ethnicities are now (or were when I left in March anyway) mandatorily searched, and often strip searched when leaving via PP's airport.

Everyobdy in the US wishes they were in NYC for heroin, but if NYers had any sense they would wish they were in Australia. SE #4 is top of the top in our day and age.
 
Thanks for the kind words. Again Mr. Blonde is correct, #4 has an amazing market share in Australia, in the high 90th percentile. In fact, it has some of the best heroin purity and prcing in the world as far as a non-source country. My last time up in Cambodia they were picking off Taiwanese and Viet Namese at the airport like flies, body packing pack to Austrlia. In fact, those 2 ethnicities are now (or were when I left in March anyway) mandatorily searched, and often strip searched when leaving via PP's airport.

Everyobdy in the US wishes they were in NYC for heroin, but if NYers had any sense they would wish they were in Australia. SE #4 is top of the top in our day and age.[/QUOTE

Lucky us!!! It's nearly always really good too. The price goes up and down from year to year, but the quality is pretty consistent. Are our heroin droughts just down to poppy season conditions in SE Asia? Would you say the Triad gangs have a strangle hold on the export markets over there?
 
On drought, yeah that is a major factor of course since the source is concentrated in such a fashion, it does have a real correlation.

As for the Triads, nope, not at all. It is not like that. the actual Farm Gate Trade, meaning the 1st step in the process is very tight, brokers cannot just traipse into villages and buy up the opium. At the same time, brokers are only going to sell their large loads to specific customers with which they have a very good relationship.

At the same time changes in the market allow a certain number of new people to gain a foothold. Such as in Laos with the very large scale eradication taking place in the last 4 provinces where poppies are still grown in any number.

Laos is about to open up its society (a la Chinese) and as such need to bow to Western dictates (Mynammar tries to do the same thing periodically but it is such an artificial nation, with so many disparate ethnicities that it is practically impossible to do so).


But...by the time it makes its way to the place of export, PP and Sinhoukville in Cambodia, Ho Chi Minh and Hanoi in Nam, and BK in Thailand it is in the hands of so many uncontrolled groups that noone could gain a large market share if they tried.

The 3 places of export, in Nam and Cambodia (which is THE main source for the Aussie Import Market), still largely controlled by the Traids are: Paillin and Ponchentang in Cambodia, and Danang and Hai Phong in Nam.

When you get the teens and old ladies bodypacking out of Ho Chi Minh and PP it is the DIY crowd, the street gang wannabes and such that are trying to turn a fast profit, with ALOT of risk and USUALLY transhipping through Death Penalty nations (Nam is such a nation as well but they usually have enough relatives locally to ensure no real problems).

It is OH SO EASY to get into, you go to Cambodia, and on one street where you can buy it from Motodops (only street where it is easily accessible for a tourist right off the plane), you can also connect in a huge way. There IS a reason why the Africans with dyed hairstyles practically live there after all. the one street is THE street where your junkies in Oz are getting their fix to a large degree because according to alot of reports, Triads are not doing a whole lot in Australia as far as market share is concerned.

Triads do not do 3 kilo loads strapped to girdles and up the orifices. They traffic large and easy, and everyone getting apiece. Paillin/Ponchentang is still KR country, their only area in the world (thank G-D), but even Pol Pot's boys still want to make a profit. If Nam and China do it why not them, yes?

As for which Triad, well believe it or not 14K is still on top. Talk about staying power! IF they could bottle it they would make billions! Also, Wo Shing Wo as of late seems to be turning up the heat out of Nam but hey, Geopolitics is not my game, I love life too much so better change the direction of the discussion.

The one place where it is still in the hands of Triads of course as far as total market shares, well actually the 2 places, are Malaysia (basically most but not all of the nation as Nepalese are also distributing in a huge way, but only #2), AND HK which is such a very small area, and where Triads have controlled all manner of vice since its creation by the Brits. The Teochew (so called Chiu Chiu) ethnicity still amazingly have a huge market share even outside of Triads.

I think about these things far too much, yes?
 
nice posts bro.

very interesting.

i wonder though do we get afgan that has been turned into number 4 for the aussie market...with the amount of gear being churned out of afganistan i wonder why more of it doesnt turn up here.

i know some number 2 does come here though.

i been clean a while now but part of me still wants to head of to laos or cambodia and just use till i die..kind of like leaving las vegas nicky cage style but with smack....risky though might get thrown in jail before i die....

anyway back on topic.
 
Well most our of Afghanisatan is #2, although as of late they have gotten smarter and taking the pains to make #4, which naturally commands quite a bit more money wise.

As for Cambodia and Laos. In Laos there is practically no heroin whatsoever. As far as opiates/opioids, it is opium through and through and alot of it. There is a huge amount of heroun passing through the country but for export. I am sure they will develop a state for it as everyother nation with such proximity has, now that they are freeing up their system a bit.


Cambodia though, that is probably the best nation in the world to be an opiate/opioid addict. While against the law (only since 2001 actually), even 1000 kilos would get you 12 years, whereas my nation of residence (Philippines) kills for 10 grammes poppy seed (well to be honest they over turned the Death Penalty in 2006 but it is still Life Without Parole). In Cambodia though, even with the 12 years, you can ALWAYS buy your way out.


Such a corrupt place, wonderfully so in that they do not just shake you down, they always have a reason unlike Nam and Thailand which will specifically target a farang (Westerner) just for the hell of it. In Cambodia, you have had to have been involved in soemthing that caused it, like an auto accident, or petty or major crime, etc. The only exception (and I am glad for it) is Child Sex, which because of International Pressure tired to AID they have now begin seriously cracking down on (thank G-D).

Purity, most is pure as it gets, ALL #4, is conistent and the price cannot be beat even for a single gramme. Police do not hassle you buying, as long as you are not toally flagrant about it. For heaven's sake, they sell sinsemilla as a pizza topping! Best for any substance really with a cuple of exceptions. The only Disassociative is Ketamine (no PCP but then it is not that popular nowadays), cocaine is piss poor but that is a given and when so much amphetamine is so abundant stimulant addicts can always switch substances (well big disparity in euphoria between coke and amp. but to each their own).

Still, one might not imagine it but having as much opiates/opioids as you want it is not all it is cracked up to be. Like Burroughs said, you end up staring at your shoes all day and indeed that has become my lot in life so it is certainly very true.

Better, i think, to take it as a holiday now and again, moderation is the key to success.
 
^ A holiday to Cambodia is sounding more and more attractive.

I believe in their pharmacy system everything is OTC?
 
Top