Stimulants Caffeine addiction?

[ItsAFunThing]

Hey Bluelight,
I think it's time to confess: I'm addicted to caffeine. I can't go a day without a big fuckin' cup of Joe. Sometimes I chase it with a large energy drink later into the day.
It's been going fine for a long while - however, recently I've noticed an alarming development. The stimulating effects are lost.
Instead of the usual clear mind and stimulating effects I become drowsy, slow, sweat a lot and feel the pressure in my head. My jaws clench and I get bruxism later into the day. I can't get anything done "sober" either.
I remember reading somewhere here on BL about the stages of stimulant addiction. Once the "honeymoon" period is over, the user is only left with negative effects and an irrational desire to redose.
This seems eerily similar to what I'm going through. I have tried both to quit cold turkey and to reduce the dosages slowly but I can last only about a week like this. The desire to get a big cup and chug it down becomes uncontrollable.
I don't want to suffer from these shitty side effects. It's really not that fun of a thing.
I think it started going downhill after I had tried a nootropic Phenylpiracetam (I've stopped taking it after a week of use because the effects were a bit too intense for its intended purpose).
What techniques are there to help through the abstinence period? Or any recommendations really.

PS I know coffee is probably the least of all evils you guys would discuss here. But still, a stim addiction is a stim addiction.
I've never done stimulants exactly because I get hooked onto addicting stuff easily. Hopefully I can figure this out and get back to drinking a bit of coffee every once in a while when I really need that boost.

 

[tubgirl.jpg]

Been there man. I worked in a café and was in charge of the espresso machine, which meant tasting between 1-4 shots of espresso each hour for 8 hours a day. I had some cold sweats when I quit drinking caffeine, but after a few weeks without any, a cup kicked my ass into gear like it once did.

I drank a lot of chamomile tea (with 2-3x as much chamomile as I would normally use), since it has some subtle "relaxing" properties.
I also added some black tea every now and then for that caffeine boost.

Good luck man, you can drop the cup of Joes if you really decide to!

 

[AutoTripper]

Hey Bluelight,
I think it's time to confess: I'm addicted to caffeine. I can't go a day without a big fuckin' cup of Joe. Sometimes I chase it with a large energy drink later into the day.
It's been going fine for a long while - however, recently I've noticed an alarming development. The stimulating effects are lost.
Instead of the usual clear mind and stimulating effects I become drowsy, slow, sweat a lot and feel the pressure in my head. My jaws clench and I get bruxism later into the day. I can't get anything done "sober" either.
I remember reading somewhere here on BL about the stages of stimulant addiction. Once the "honeymoon" period is over, the user is only left with negative effects and an irrational desire to redose.
This seems eerily similar to what I'm going through. I have tried both to quit cold turkey and to reduce the dosages slowly but I can last only about a week like this. The desire to get a big cup and chug it down becomes uncontrollable.
I don't want to suffer from these shitty side effects. It's really not that fun of a thing.
I think it started going downhill after I had tried a nootropic Phenylpiracetam (I've stopped taking it after a week of use because the effects were a bit too intense for its intended purpose).
What techniques are there to help through the abstinence period? Or any recommendations really.

PS I know coffee is probably the least of all evils you guys would discuss here. But still, a stim addiction is a stim addiction.
I've never done stimulants exactly because I get hooked onto addicting stuff easily. Hopefully I can figure this out and get back to drinking a bit of coffee every once in a while when I really need that boost.

Do you take white sugar too though?

White sugar is a drug. It’s the most health damaging of all drugs and foods, accumulatively over time.

It’s like a stimulant addiction, dependance, psychosis, energy crashes, the adrenals are like coastal borders battered by the elements, so the terrain is never fixed.

Just asking in case your sugar regulation is related, pre-diabetes or just whiplashed adrenals if your sugar consumption has risen with time and your liking a good old cuppa.

Not meaning to patronise you or discount anything you report but I didn’t see you comment on sugar, just gonna re-check now though in case…

 

[ItsAFunThing]

Do you take white sugar too though?

White sugar is a drug. It’s the most health damaging of all drugs and foods, accumulatively over time.

It’s like a stimulant addiction, dependance, psychosis, energy crashes, the adrenals are like coastal borders battered by the elements, so the terrain is never fixed.

Just asking in case your sugar regulation is related, pre-diabetes or just whiplashed adrenals if your sugar consumption has risen with time and your liking a good old cuppa.

Not meaning to patronise you or discount anything you report but I didn’t see you comment on sugar, just gonna re-check now though in case…

There might be something to it. I've recently started allowing myself a sugary snack with a coffee. I rationalize it by considering summer a "relax" period after cutting body fat all year. I don't have any diabetes or even increased sugar levels as evidenced by a medical check-up in June.
Fast carbs and insulin spikes aren't good but I keep my weight under control.

Been there man. I worked in a café and was in charge of the espresso machine, which meant tasting between 1-4 shots of espresso each hour for 8 hours a day. I had some cold sweats when I quit drinking caffeine, but after a few weeks without any, a cup kicked my ass into gear like it once did.

I drank a lot of chamomile tea (with 2-3x as much chamomile as I would normally use), since it has some subtle "relaxing" properties.
I also added some black tea every now and then for that caffeine boost.

Good luck man, you can drop the cup of Joes if you really decide to!

Thanks, I'll try camomile tea as my morning and evening beverage, let's see how it goes.

at least it don't destroy your life lol

IMO some things destroy your life like a sledgehammer breaks a fancy vase. One could try Heroin or get some Mephedrone because they can totally control their impulses. And then suddenly WHAMMO! fastforward to getting fucked in the ass by life(metaphorically) (or not).
Other things are subtler and erode the foundation, decrease the overall level of quality of life over time. It's like vitamin D or testosterone deficiency. I try to stay as aware and analytical of myself and my own actions as possible. Negative tendencies need to be taken care of.

 

[AutoTripper]

There might be something to it. I've recently started allowing myself a sugary snack with a coffee. I rationalize it by considering summer a "relax" period after cutting body fat all year. I don't have any diabetes or even increased sugar levels as evidenced by a medical check-up in June.
Fast carbs and insulin spikes aren't good but I keep my weight under control.

Thanks, I'll try camomile tea as my morning and evening beverage, let's see how it goes.

IMO some things destroy your life like a sledgehammer breaks a fancy vase. One could try Heroin or get some Mephedrone because they can totally control their impulses. And then suddenly WHAMMO! fastforward to getting fucked in the ass by life(metaphorically) (or not).
Other things are subtler and erode the foundation, decrease the overall level of quality of life over time. It's like vitamin D or testosterone deficiency. I try to stay as aware and analytical of myself and my own actions as possible. Negative tendencies need to be taken care of.

It could well be a sugar or adrenal crash from the sugary snack.

It isn’t actually a treat. That’s an illusion. It’s an assault.

Maybe see if you can organise your routine, consumption habits and reward and coping mechanisms to remove as much or all refined sugar from your diet, white sugar, like white salt, is pure poison and will only bite you back.

You don’t need pre-diabetes or any sugar level control irregularity to suffer ill health, agitation, fatigue, even depression, from eating refined sugar.

Sugar in general in any form has become a far less friendly food for our bodies. Gut flora plays a big part. A robust, widely ranged and healthy intestinal flora will enable you to handle sugar much better, but still not ideal, and vice versa, even subtle changes in intestinal flora will lead to significant changes in mood and feeling, behaviour, thoughts etc.

It’s very plausible that your gut microbiome has altered over whatever recent time period, or in reality it’s a continuous process through life, like adding yellow paint to red to make orange, a brushstroke at a time.

Coffee is actually a very good prebiotic too, food for probiotics.

White sugar is the opposite, fuel and testosterone for harmful bacteria.

Regardless of your experience and symptoms, and especially more so, I’d encourage a dietary change to reduce or remove refined sugar, and really supplement, boost and fortify your own internal ecosystem.

Soil based organisms like Body Biotics, fermented foods like raw sauerkraut, kefir, kimchi, yoghurt.

If you focus on improving your gut health in this manner you may surprise yourself.

Not only hopefully might you find you can take, or leave, or take again, your beloved coffee, without any issues orobstacles, you may notice an endless plethora of all round positives as well.

That would honestly be my solid advice. Good luck finding a solution or hack, I definitely think if you have not been caring for your microbiome though that there is no better or more sensible a place to start.

 

[ItsAFunThing]

sugar is bad

Yeah, I consider sugar a very addicting drug too. It's put everywhere by food producers. Found some in my herbs and spices mix even. It's E621-tier omnipresent!
I have been avoiding sugar all year but as I've said, it's summer so I'm getting some psychological rest from a strict diet and excecise regimen.

In other news, I made myself some chamomille tea and now I'm sedated as fuck. A small hit of indica sedated, actually. Wew...

 

[falsifiedhypothesi]

I found that temporarily switching to black tea and lowering dose of caffeine helps with this. But really you should just take a tolerance break. You're going to have a week where you feel run down but that's the price you pay.

 

[TheUltimateFixx]

Heck, it may be the mildest of all the stimulants but it IS still a stimulant drug.

And absolutely people with a massive caffeine habit show withdrawal symptoms. If you take an espresso fiend and not give them any coffee for day that person gets twitchy and jittery, gets sweats and headaches, feels generally unwell in themselves.
Also, shit when you listen to the language caffeine freaks use : 'I just can't function unless I've had my cuppa first thing' ,
'I' m just not really myself / with it until I've had a coffee ', I NEED some coffee right now' - how exactly is that FUNDAMENTALLY different from the junkie craving his morning fix

I like to point that out to coffee drinkers to annoy them, as well.

 

[Xorkoth]

Caffeine is quite a mild addiction, there are withdrawals but they consist of a couple of days of low energy and headaches. Easiest withdrawal of anything I've been dependent on.

Over time, caffeine becomes less and less effective. I have it every day for the most part, too, and if I don't have it, all that happens is I have a harder time waking up in the morning and getting going, but I don't feel much effect other than suddenly feeling fully awake. Back in the day I used to get a nice high from caffeine, it even made me feel a bit euphoric. I got super addicted to it back in the day, and woke up with a headache and got a headache mid-day, but I came off it with the help of tea to wean down, and didn't have any for a while. For some reason, to this day I don't get physically addicted to it anymore even when I use it heavily for months and months on end. I just like it first thing in the morning, it's like a little mini reward system hit, and it makes me not have to spend an hour slowly waking up into my full energy level, instead it's like flipping a switch.

 

[AutoTripper]

Imagine right, if everybody in the world was addicted to caffeine, no other addictions, drug problems, habits or cravings.

Like it was the only problem humanity needed to solve, individually and together.

I can imagine infinitely worse scenarios. And I’m not trying to downplay caffeine’s negative effects, just keep perspective on the bright side here.

I just drank a strong black coffee actually, only one today, at 11 pm. I have one strong cup daily and not every day, once a while 2 cups.

It helps with mental energy, fatigue aches, mood, is a good prebiotic and very good for sluggish bowls.

I don’t go over on it. I never crave it. Sometimes I feel need for it, just like I might a big glass of water, some fresh air, a sleep. Which is fine IMO.

Coffee is useful for me, it serves a purpose. I don’t class myself as addicted in any capacity. It’s literally a supplement, in moderation, which I honestly feel gives me far more than it takes away.

It’s just about the best stimulant really, on paper, but all things in moderation including coffee.

Now Caffeine powder, Pro Plus, RedBull. Not healthy, would not get a “passport” into my ideal society. Very different pharmacologically or in whatever way to black tea and coffee.

100 mg’s caffeine in a coffee feels smooth, pleasant, harmless.

100 mg’s caffeine powder feels dirty and rusty like Amphetamine, and has a similar dramatic energy crash/comedown too soon after taking which for me has always outweighed any upside, and from that point it’s rapidly and increasingly diminishing returns.

 

[arrall]

Try using black or green tea to wean yourself off. They contain alkaloids that minimize the negative side effects of caffeine. You'll need approximately 2 cups of black tea or 3 cups of green tea to equal the 100mg caffeine content of the average cup of coffee. A couple weeks after switching you can slowly decrease how much you drink. The withdrawal should be significantly more manageable. The other option would be to slowly decrease how much coffee you drink, though I suspect that method would be much harder and do nothing to alleviate the negative effects you are currently experiencing.

 

[JackARoe]

at least it don't destroy your life lol

That is what I always say.. Total truth. Some drugs steal your soul if you get off balance with them. The lighter ones don't. I mean anything can be abused. But I have had 3 cups of coffee every morning for the last 50 years. So for me coffee addiction is doable and doesn't really steal my soul like say alcohol can. But I can not stop my morning coffee. I can not imagine me stopping that.

Lived in Texas for a few years. Hurricane Alicia we lost power for 4 days. So for 4 days in 50 years I did not have coffee. I consider caffeine addiction light on the soul but very heavy physically. I can not go without coffee when I wake up. The withdrawal is not easy for me. So I stick with it. But I never drink caffeine after that morning coffee. I can see how easy it would have been to drink a cup in the afternoon but steered clear of that. But I think because I have done it so long I get a worse withdrawal. I imagine it is like a tiny meth withdrawal. lol

 

[negrogesic]

I take 100mg-200mg of caffeine in powder form a day. Not a big worry for me, don't notice any negatives really. The withdrawal paradoxically causes some insomnia for me, which isn't fun since I am a very light sleeper.

 

[Mycophile]

I have actually significantly had my life worsened by the interplay of the anxiety and ocd and anger caused by my consuming too much caffeine and the need to consume it because I take Klonopin for anxiety and sleep which leaves me tired. I have anxiety, ocd, depression and some anger issues and without klonopin life becomes very difficult and i also need it to sleep every night (and melatonin), but then I have a really hard time waking up and need like 2 shots of espresso, a cup of coffee and a cup of tea to wake up and like 1-2 cups of tea later in the day to keep me going (at least i mostly switched to tea from coffee which is better).

While for some people caffeine wouldn't be an issue, for me it makes my issues and my intrusive thoughts and anxiety and anger ten times worse, but I have tried to quit and the withdrawal is way too much to deal with not just because it's hard to stay awake but because even once I'm over it then I'm still on Klonopin and it's long acting and too hard to be tired all the time with klonopin but no caffeine in my system.

So then I have all these caffeine in me at night and need the klonopin to fall asleep, need the caffeine to wake up, need klonopin for the caffeine anxiety and coffee for the tiredness caused by klonopin and it's rinse repeat.

I don't believe I need to 100% quit caffeine but I'm someone who really shouldn't have more than 1 cup a day but the only way I see that as possible is if I could get my 2.0mgs of Klonopin daily down to about 0.5mgs which would take time.

So for me, I believe cutting down on caffeine significantly or quitting is only possible if I can majorly cut down on Klonopin and everyone here knows that's not so easy.

BUT...I do have a plan. One of the biggest reasons i need so much klonopin is to fall asleep, as I have often these days found that IF I am NOT drinking a lot of caffeine I can manage on only a small dose of klonopin, but everything other than melatonin (which I already take) that puts me to sleep will just make me wake up feeling like shit...OTHER THAN WEED.

Now, I'm not that into weed like when I was younger. It makes me get negative thoughts and then I want to drink which is ok once in a while but not every night.

BUT....I'm in New York and we finally have legal weed and we'll have dispensaries in 2022, so I have my hopes high in finding the right kind of high CBD low THC strain that I can take in low doses for sleep without it causes me anxiety or negative thoughts. Then I believe that taking that with melatonin I could cut my klonopin dose down gradually and still fall asleep and get down to about 0.5mgs a day which could also allow me to get down to 1 cup of coffee a day.

That would be amazing cause let me tell you, the difference between me on 1 cup vs on 5-6 cups a day is pretty drastic lol. You really wouldn't understand the kind of problems it causes for someone like me unless you are also as high strung as I am haha...

 

[AutoTripper]

I take 100mg-200mg of caffeine in powder form a day. Not a big worry for me, don't notice any negatives really. The withdrawal paradoxically causes some insomnia for me, which isn't fun since I am a very light sleeper.

Hi. Firstly. We talked this momentarily I think.

We all react very differently.

Now me, I’m a real coward at heart. Brave with simple honest truth speaking, no cowardly economical cap on that.

But I’m not good with heights, I mean I’ll sit over a huge cliff edge, as long as the grass is holding my ass secure and there’s some sort of failsafe like a vine to grab…


But I was watching the Olympic diving briefly the other day. I’m shit scared of high diving boards,

You would offer me a lot of money I’d still say no.

But then I got thinking about this whole bravery thing and wondered, if I was forced to pick, either the top diving board, or a mega dose of LSD, how high would I go, because I don’t see me getting on that diving platform any day.

I decided, 2 mg’s, easy decision. But if the bar was set at 5, I’m sure I would not even think about the diving board.

I’m mad enough I reckon to go up to 10 mg’s and just hope they would settle with no more, hopefully less than that (these imaginary terrorists who would be forcing me to pick one or the other lol).

 

[AutoTripper]

I have actually significantly had my life worsened by the interplay of the anxiety and ocd and anger caused by my consuming too much caffeine and the need to consume it because I take Klonopin for anxiety and sleep which leaves me tired. I have anxiety, ocd, depression and some anger issues and without klonopin life becomes very difficult and i also need it to sleep every night (and melatonin), but then I have a really hard time waking up and need like 2 shots of espresso, a cup of coffee and a cup of tea to wake up and like 1-2 cups of tea later in the day to keep me going (at least i mostly switched to tea from coffee which is better).

While for some people caffeine wouldn't be an issue, for me it makes my issues and my intrusive thoughts and anxiety and anger ten times worse, but I have tried to quit and the withdrawal is way too much to deal with not just because it's hard to stay awake but because even once I'm over it then I'm still on Klonopin and it's long acting and too hard to be tired all the time with klonopin but no caffeine in my system.

So then I have all these caffeine in me at night and need the klonopin to fall asleep, need the caffeine to wake up, need klonopin for the caffeine anxiety and coffee for the tiredness caused by klonopin and it's rinse repeat.

I don't believe I need to 100% quit caffeine but I'm someone who really shouldn't have more than 1 cup a day but the only way I see that as possible is if I could get my 2.0mgs of Klonopin daily down to about 0.5mgs which would take time.

So for me, I believe cutting down on caffeine significantly or quitting is only possible if I can majorly cut down on Klonopin and everyone here knows that's not so easy.

BUT...I do have a plan. One of the biggest reasons i need so much klonopin is to fall asleep, as I have often these days found that IF I am NOT drinking a lot of caffeine I can manage on only a small dose of klonopin, but everything other than melatonin (which I already take) that puts me to sleep will just make me wake up feeling like shit...OTHER THAN WEED.

Now, I'm not that into weed like when I was younger. It makes me get negative thoughts and then I want to drink which is ok once in a while but not every night.

BUT....I'm in New York and we finally have legal weed and we'll have dispensaries in 2022, so I have my hopes high in finding the right kind of high CBD low THC strain that I can take in low doses for sleep without it causes me anxiety or negative thoughts. Then I believe that taking that with melatonin I could cut my klonopin dose down gradually and still fall asleep and get down to about 0.5mgs a day which could also allow me to get down to 1 cup of coffee a day.

That would be amazing cause let me tell you, the difference between me on 1 cup vs on 5-6 cups a day is pretty drastic lol. You really wouldn't understand the kind of problems it causes for someone like me unless you are also as high strung as I am haha...

Try kava? Choose the right cultivar it’s very aiding with sleep. I wish it wasn’t because I’m massively longterm sleep deprived, a coffee here and there just saves my ass sometimes.

Good CBD does help with sleep. 5htp too.

But definitely kava though. It’s also primarily sought for it’s anxiolytic properties, plus more.

 

[Mycophile]

Try kava? Choose the right cultivar it’s very aiding with sleep. I wish it wasn’t because I’m massively longterm sleep deprived, a coffee here and there just saves my ass sometimes.

Good CBD does help with sleep. 5htp too.

But definitely kava though. It’s also primarily sought for it’s anxiolytic properties, plus more.

I tried Kava a few times but could never find one that worked but maybe I'll try again.

I know I'll be able to get some good medicinal weed, I mean i already have issues they'd probably prescribe it for.

I just want it to be something SUPER mellow cause the strong sativas and that kind of stuff turned on me years back and now I can't enjoy them unless i'm drunk or on something like kratom or phenibut. I really just want it as medicine for sleep and maybe a little relaxation here and there.

I'd be SO much more chill if I didn't drink coffee lol.

 

[AutoTripper]

I tried Kava a few times but could never find one that worked but maybe I'll try again.

I know I'll be able to get some good medicinal weed, I mean i already have issues they'd probably prescribe it for.

I just want it to be something SUPER mellow cause the strong sativas and that kind of stuff turned on me years back and now I can't enjoy them unless i'm drunk or on something like kratom or phenibut. I really just want it as medicine for sleep and maybe a little relaxation here and there.

I'd be SO much more chill if I didn't drink coffee lol.

There is a kava thread here, short, informative.

So many people, kava goes over their heads.

Reverse tolerance is a common one, not appreciating that going into it, never overcoming it and drawing conclusion.

I’ve introduced lots of good chaps lol all over forums etc to kava, I advised them all on the basics, including the reverse tolerance effect.

Several did experience it, I did not personally but I believe it may be related to brain chemistry.

From my brief but full experience of Kratom, what I felt strongly, and picked up too, was how it didn’t feel healthy for my brain chemistry, quite disruptive.

I Was also severely allergic to the Kratom, Causing literally a life ending digestive and: blockage if I had continued more than the four weeks and even then I had a nasty five days of unpleasant withdrawals.

Soon after that I decided to finally try Kava.

But many of these people have contacted me back since and said thank you so much for sharing all that, because I wouldn’t have persevered otherwise I kept drinking it thinking this is doing nothing and then suddenly one day bingo.

But also cultivar and supplier makes a massive difference because there is a huge difference in quality I am happy to help you with recommendations for literally the highest quality cultivars available and a wide range with a guide roughly as to what sort of carvers they are and how I and others experience and use them but I will also check that kava thread, to get the link And I will share it here very soon.

The reason I champion Kaxa, Two reasons one because it reminds phenomenally unknown across the world for so many people it could help with conditions like anxiety particularly and insomnia and especially alcoholics for whom many of which it’s been a true godsend and saviour.

But the other point is that’s it’s really is actually about as clean on the body and mind as well as virtually any other psychoactive which has a potentially equivalent affects the only one I can really think of in the same sort of field but the difference is pure clean organic cannabis, Taken by the most medicinal roots such as edibles and clean vaporisation for example even better that way.

But my original point though I experienced Kratom’s Unpleasantly disruptive affects on my brain chemistry but Kava, I honestly don’t experience this at all and having poked around all sorts of reports and articles and bits of research it does appear to be the case that the kavalactones Have a very positive balancing affect on brain chemistry and this may be one of the reasons why it takes some people some priming time to bring things into balance in order to experience Kavas fullest effects.

But if you can get some real high quality stuff either instant kava which is the best generally, But not necessarily because it’s all the same in the end or the highest quality medium rind cultivars of noble kava and Use a decent basic perforation technique which is very easy to get the most potent affect from it but always avoid extracts and capsules it’s about a Conor me and extracts are potentially harmful.


I’ll get that link tomorrow when I’m not so hammered I vaporised some lovely 12 month shirt Cinderella Jack organic son growing weed shortly ago, Plus a significant amount of some really heavy Fujian Kava Earlier followed by some equally potent Malekula Instant.

 

[Joey]

Seems like a mild addiction but a mild addiction is your worst one if it is the main one. I’ve had habits where I’m drinking 4-6 monster cans or something similar each day and passing out when I was sober from everything else for awhile. It’s a fallback for me.

the main thing like with anything is to cut back or stop. There isn’t much in way of any true medical suggestion on caffeine addiction or support or anything but I get it. I’ve had my issues with it on and off myself.

haven’t thought about that in awhile lol. I used to slug back a 2L of pop at work each night and drink more pop and energy drinks between when I wasn’t using much or at all.

 

[Mycophile]

There is a kava thread here, short, informative.

So many people, kava goes over their heads.

Reverse tolerance is a common one, not appreciating that going into it, never overcoming it and drawing conclusion.

I’ve introduced lots of good chaps lol all over forums etc to kava, I advised them all on the basics, including the reverse tolerance effect.

Several did experience it, I did not personally but I believe it may be related to brain chemistry.

From my brief but full experience of Kratom, what I felt strongly, and picked up too, was how it didn’t feel healthy for my brain chemistry, quite disruptive.

I Was also severely allergic to the Kratom, Causing literally a life ending digestive and: blockage if I had continued more than the four weeks and even then I had a nasty five days of unpleasant withdrawals.

Soon after that I decided to finally try Kava.

But many of these people have contacted me back since and said thank you so much for sharing all that, because I wouldn’t have persevered otherwise I kept drinking it thinking this is doing nothing and then suddenly one day bingo.

But also cultivar and supplier makes a massive difference because there is a huge difference in quality I am happy to help you with recommendations for literally the highest quality cultivars available and a wide range with a guide roughly as to what sort of carvers they are and how I and others experience and use them but I will also check that kava thread, to get the link And I will share it here very soon.

The reason I champion Kaxa, Two reasons one because it reminds phenomenally unknown across the world for so many people it could help with conditions like anxiety particularly and insomnia and especially alcoholics for whom many of which it’s been a true godsend and saviour.

But the other point is that’s it’s really is actually about as clean on the body and mind as well as virtually any other psychoactive which has a potentially equivalent affects the only one I can really think of in the same sort of field but the difference is pure clean organic cannabis, Taken by the most medicinal roots such as edibles and clean vaporisation for example even better that way.

But my original point though I experienced Kratom’s Unpleasantly disruptive affects on my brain chemistry but Kava, I honestly don’t experience this at all and having poked around all sorts of reports and articles and bits of research it does appear to be the case that the kavalactones Have a very positive balancing affect on brain chemistry and this may be one of the reasons why it takes some people some priming time to bring things into balance in order to experience Kavas fullest effects.

But if you can get some real high quality stuff either instant kava which is the best generally, But not necessarily because it’s all the same in the end or the highest quality medium rind cultivars of noble kava and Use a decent basic perforation technique which is very easy to get the most potent affect from it but always avoid extracts and capsules it’s about a Conor me and extracts are potentially harmful.


I’ll get that link tomorrow when I’m not so hammered I vaporised some lovely 12 month shirt Cinderella Jack organic son growing weed shortly ago, Plus a significant amount of some really heavy Fujian Kava Earlier followed by some equally potent Malekula Instant.

Sure, send me a link anytime.