buying some cycle shit in 2 weeks. open to suggestions

nolys

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I'm asking the fucking questions!
In case your unfamiliar with me, I've did 1 cycle of test at 600mg per week with a dbol kicker of 30/40mg. Blew out shoulder, back to square 1. Havnt trained in about 6 months. Waiting to start physiotherapy in 2-4 weeks but apparently I'm ok to start training again.

So gonna train for about 2 weeks - a month natural to get back into the flow of things then jump on gear.

obviously a test base will be used at 500mg test e.

not sure what else I want though...
I'm torn between dbol/msten/superdrol/ as an oral kickstart. I responded extremely well to dbol at 30mg per week, went to 40 and had to go back to 30 as it pumped me too hard and gave me shin splints. Dunno wether to change it up or stick to what I know works...?

I'm gonna throw in deca too, but at what dose? I'm thinking 400mg for 14 weeks? What you guys think?

And finally, I'm thiinking of adding another oral to the last 3-4 weeks to polish myself off... Any suggestions?

I'm thinking/leaning towards -

1-4 dbol
1-15 test
1-14 deca
11/12-15 superdrol or msten?

obviously a pct will be in place...

Any suggestions on what to do? Anything to change?
Deca is there for its lubricating abilitys on the joints btw.

Any input appreciated ;)
Nolys
 
I'd only use one oral. And I'd take some milk thistle and NAC to help the liver. Everything seems good, but what if you get libido issues ? Will you lower the deca dose or add some caber ?
Also, 11-15, that's 5 weeks. I guess you meant 12/13-15 not 11/12-15.
 
I won't bother with any liver protection I think its a myth that they do anything worth taking them fot. I've been fine with dbol in the past lol.
If I get libido issues ill most likely up the test to 600mg or so, I'm not going to worry about caber at this dose, its easy for me to aquire anyway. Kinda expensive here...

12/13-15, yes you are correct lol.

Why wouldn't you run 2 orals? The dbol is a kickstart bulker, then 8 weeks rest for my liver then 3-4 weeks of msten or sdrol to polish the cycle off. Why wouldn't you do this yourself flyhighk? The msten and sdrol are lean bulkers, very little to no aromatisation so no water weight or gyno issues?
 
I wouldn't cause I don't wanna hurt my liver lol. I overdosed on apap when I was a kid, I drank like a whole bottle of syrup cause it tasted so good. A toxicology report didn't show any damage to my liver and doctors said I was fine but idk, I still have like a phobia and care alot bout my liver lol. But you should be fine anyways. I wasn't talking about gyno or aromatisation issues...
Also, I believe that injectables alone are enough, for my goals anyways.
 
That makes sense but I think ill be fine taking 2 orals and stuff, I'm really interested in using either msten or sdrol, but don't wanna use them as a kickstart they just seem to me to be better suited as a cycle finisher. They bulk lean and cut at the same time, add nice strength gains and don't bloat or aromatise to estrogen meaning come pct time their not gonna end up giving me gyno or other estrogen related problems
 
This post I'm taking from another forum mite point you in the right direction.


While injecting test increases protein synthesis by roughly 50 times, depending on dose and time, most bodybuilders forget that it will reduce collagen synthesis by more than 50% -- more like 80%, giving you the collagen synthesis rate of a senior citizen. Since collagen makes up tendons, bros are very prone to injury if they continue to lift very heavy, unless they cycle off T and let their collagen synthesis get back to normal. It's like having the skeletal muscle of a gorilla with the tendons of a very old man.

Winstrol increases collagen synthesis. It will give you bigger tendons. However, your body compensates for this by making them more brittle, weaker, and more prone to injury. I can't tell you how many bros work out anaerobically and become injured while on winstrol. Guys who lift in the 1-5 rep range while on winstrol, to baseball players who sprint all out from a stationary position -- winstrol should be the LAST drug they choose. Most of them like winstrol because they don't get the weight gain from it but it is very detrimental to bros who train for any sport anaerobically. Tendons tear easily on it.

Also, the drugs I mention increase collagen synthesis while also increasing collagen cross-linking integrity, making for a much stronger tendon.

Winstrol, on the other hand, will dramatically increase collagen syn, but ironically it decreases collagen cross-linking integrity, thus making a much weaker tendon.

You can plan a cycle of AAS which will increase collagen synthesis and skeletal muscle growth at the same time. The key is the drug(s) you choose.

Deca , Equipoise , Anavar , and Primobolan will ALL increase skeletal muscle while at the same time dramatically increase collagen syn and bone mass and density, leaving you with a substantially reduced chance of becoming injured than if you choose to use AAS like sus, cyp, or enth.

While testosterone will increase bone mass and density, even at supra-physiological levels, the result is weaker tendons due to inhibition of collagen syn.

To plan a cycle where the goal is to increase skeletal muscle mass/strength while at the same time increase joint/tendon/ligament strength, enough to keep up with the dramatic increase in skeletal muscle, you must choose drugs like Eq, Deca, Anavar, or Primo as the base of your cycle. Testosterone and its esters can be added to your cycle to keep levels within a 'normal' physiological range (ie, 100-200 mg/wk) but must not go above this. Since drugs like eq, deca, anavar and primo will reduce endogenous, natural levels of test, these levels may be maintained with exogenous test in the 100-200 mg/wk range. Test at this dose will not inhibit collagen syn, but paradoxically, will help increase it. It is when exogenous testosterone is used > 200 mg/wk that collagen syn is inhibited.

Deca @ 3 mg/kg a week(about 270 mg/wk for a 200 lb male) will increase procollagen III levels by 270% by week 2. Procollagen III is a primary indicator used to determine the rate of collagen syn. As you can see, deca is a very good drug at giving you everything you want -- an increase in collagen syn, an increase in skeletal muscle, and increases in bone mass and density. The one thing it does not give you is wood.

Primobolan, @ 5 mg/kg, will increase collagen synthesis by roughly 180% -- less than deca and equipoise but still substantial.

Equipoise @ 3 mg/kg will increase procollagen III by approximately 340% -- slightly better than deca.

Oxandrolone has over a hundred studies documenting its effectiveness at treating patients needing rapid increases in collagen syn to enhance healing.

These drugs have longer half-lives than most other AAS, so this should be considered when timing your post cycle clomid use. Here they are:

Deca: 15 days Equipoise: 14 days Primobolan: 10.5 days

Anavar has a half-life of only 8 hours so it should not pose a problem.

GH is probably the most remarkable drug at increasing collagen synthesis. It increases collagen syn in a dose dependant manner -- the more you use, the more you will increase collagen syn. It has also demonstrated this ability in short and long term studies. From what I've read, hGH at 6 iu/day increased the collagen deposition rate by around 250% in damaged collagen structures. This result indicates that the increased biomechanical strength of wounds to collagen structures treated with biosynthetic human growth hormone was produced by an increased deposition of collagen in the collagen structures.

Eq, primo, anavar, and deca are all good -- they increase several biomakers of collagen syn -- ie, type III, II, I, procollagen markers. GH just seems to do so most dramatically.

Use of any of these drugs @ supra-physiological levels with a maintenance dose of test will increase collagen syn while at the same time increase skeletal muscle mass. Skeletal muscle mass gains will not be as dramatic as with large testosterone doses but you have to weigh the risk/reward basis for yourself. Also, these drugs do not satisfy the libido like testosterone, but that is not the point of this thread. It is only to demonstrate that you can increase skeletal muscle and collagen syn at the same time with certain AAS -- the decision is up to you.
 
To me there is no point of running an oral. Test and Deca will do you good. Sure an oral will kick start the gains but you don't want your strength getting to high right away if you havent trained in 6 months. You're just asking for an injury. Personally I think its a bad idea to hop on a cycle right away but at least you're taking deca. With Deca being a progesterone id get a PROLACTIN ANTAGONIZER to keep away that deca dick. If you cant get good results from 500mg test and 400mg deca then I wouldnt cycle. Id never recommend superdrol. if you have to take a oral do dbol 25mg 1 hour before prework out.
 
Maybe go test and EQ (or boldenone cyp if you can find it to keep esters at similar lengths). Wont have to worry about prolactin issues with this combo. Test at 500-600/week and boldenone at 600/week though some recommend 800.
 
Fantastic quote almostfamous thank you very much, very helpfull.
Never really considered eq as something that would help recovery and make everything easier on my shoulder... Ill look into that more.
I really like the idea of boldenone cyp, but doubt I could aquire it, my source may even have trouble with eq never mind...

Which would you guys feel would suit my needs better? Deca or eq? Now remebering that I want maximal muscle gain as well? I'm leaning towards deca, I've heard that eq doesn't work amazingly for some people?
 
Eq just requires patience fron what ive read. Though the gains me slower they are easier kept. Also if you prize vascularity eq seems to superior to nandrolone in that department. Check out what they use EQ for in veterinary medicine as thats its primary use is in animals.

edit: look into concurrent use of ghrp+ghrh with aas for injury recovery as well as gh is fucking expensive and costs an arm (or shoulder :P ) and a leg.
 
I see people make ridiculous gains off 400 deca/500test, nolys. I'm about to extend my cycle and throw some deca and superdrol on.
I don't see a big deal using multiple orals as long as your liver gets some rest in between. Like, at least 3 weeks. I'm going to start my superdrol while I'm waiting on my deca to build in my system. I've read several times to not use superdrol more than 3 weeks, so I'm not going to. I'll finish my cycle with turinabol. Then pct.

Wanna see who gets bigger? Lol
 
EQ works better at maintaining mass. That's what it was created for I think.
Duchaine later rescinded his original statement on Equipoise and said that it was disappointing as a mass builder when compared with deca, but a far better drug than for both strength gains and vascularity.
Duchaine is the guy who introduced equipoise.
So I guess you'll have to use deca.
 
Fuck HGH serotonin lol I'm not paying for a months supply of that shit, would leave me unable to feed myself... Lol

And almostfamous I'm pretty sure that that's what I'm gonna do apart from the tbol replaced with dbol but reversed so dbol kicker and sdrol. I have also heard that about sdrol being effective for 3 weeks which is why in the OP I wrote 12/13-15 lol.
What's turinbol like in your personal opinion?

Think I'm leaning towards deca, just seems right to me for some reason...
 
Muscles are getting too strong for joints.
I'm gonna need some deca soon lol

turinabol has recomping effects. So it's probably best used towards the end of a cycle. After you're getting ready to finish your deca, I think.


haven't tried it. I got it on word from a good friend highly educated in steroid knowledge and track pants.
 
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Nolys like animalmother said 400 deca and 500 test you will pack some good size on. Now if you plan to speed things up and add the dbol up front you will see a lot of size but, you will get a lil bit more bloat. If you do decide to throw an oral in the end ( you did give your self plenty of time there so no real worries) I would go with the M-sten ( lil less sides the sdrol but its a solid compound) you will see a noticeable increase in strength from the m-sten ( thats my experience with it a nice clean gain of good quality mass and a solid strength gain).
Eq is a good compound, you need to be a lil more patient with it but it pays off, real quality mass gain but slower over a longer period, boosts your RBC as well so endurance is bumped as well as speeding up recovery via the increase in nutrient rich RBC to muscles/joints ect. It will help a bit with tendon and ligament issues same as deca, but not as great an effect there. I run Eq or Bold Cyp ( though the pip from the Bold Cyp is a bitch) regularly at around 400-600mg a week- granted I run it for about 16 weeks every time but; I always see solid gains. But you have to keep that shoulder in mine mate, might want to go dead simple and run the test and just deca- skip the orals, no use blowing out the shoulder again by over powering the joints ^-^
 
Fantastic quote almostfamous thank you very much, very helpfull.
Never really considered eq as something that would help recovery and make everything easier on my shoulder... Ill look into that more.
I really like the idea of boldenone cyp, but doubt I could aquire it, my source may even have trouble with eq never mind...

Which would you guys feel would suit my needs better? Deca or eq? Now remembering that I want maximal muscle gain as well? I'm leaning towards deca, I've heard that eq doesn't work amazingly for some people?

Having used Deca for over 12 years and Boldernone for the last 4, I'd be inclined towards Boldernone.. Reason being, the increase in muscular definition and vascularity of Boldernone surpasses the blown up look of Deca in my opinion..
From memory I think there was only one early study suggesting collagen synthesis with Deca, which I was always dubious about..

I personally wouldn't use a D2 agonist like Bromo, or Caber with Deca @ 400mg/week, as its fuck-all to be messing about with dopamine..

I don't believe you should hammer the front load or finish with more orals when returning from serious injury, your main concern should be dropping your weights and working more on the eccentric or negative part of the movement, lowering to a 4 or 6 count, rather than trying to break PB's....

my 2c....


Deca: 15 days Equipoise: 14 days Primobolan: 10.5 days......... wrong, Bill Roberts fucked up on his calculation of carbon atoms many years ago...!!

Ester Half-life

formate 1.5 days
acetate 3 days
propionate 2.25 days
phenylprop 2.25 days
butyrate 3 days
Valerate 3 days
Hexanoate 5.25 days
caproate 4.5 days
isocaproate 4.5 days
heptonoate 5.25 days
enathate 5.25 days
octanoate 6 days
cypionate 6 days
Nonanoate 6.75days
decanoate 7.5 days
Undecanoate 8.25days

This Is what I got lol and doing a quick pub med search I found an article that states the half life of test-e is 4-5 days (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2333732)
 
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Animalmother - for my money superdrol is gonna give you a more mass. Granted both will give you quality gains but supoerdrol for me at least will give you more of them. But m-sten will give you solid gains if doses properly, and frankly is easier on you. You might want to check out methylclostebol. I ran that as well in fact i ran that along side m-sten for 4 weeks and got some nice results and frankly the blood work said the combo was not as harsh as you would think as long as dosage is kept reasonable.
 
Thanks for the good info,neo!

What do you think is more effective for mass? Sdrol or msten?

Superdrol. It will pack on slabs of lean muscle and cause some serious glycogen retention making you look like a fucking behemoth. Only downside to Superdrol is that it can cause serious fatigue. It's a harsh steroid. Start at 10mg. If you aren't feeling like shit after a week, bump it up to 20mg and keep it at 20mg.
 
Fantastic quote almostfamous thank you very much, very helpfull.
Never really considered eq as something that would help recovery and make everything easier on my shoulder... Ill look into that more.
I really like the idea of boldenone cyp, but doubt I could aquire it, my source may even have trouble with eq never mind...

Which would you guys feel would suit my needs better? Deca or eq? Now remebering that I want maximal muscle gain as well? I'm leaning towards deca, I've heard that eq doesn't work amazingly for some people?

Personally I prefer EQ. You have to run it for a long time and be patient but the gains are quality lean mass that comes on steadily and stays. It also gives the muscles a nice pop, raises RBC count making for increased vascularity and increases appetite. If you go with Boldenone I would go with Boldenone Undecylenate rather than Boldenone Cypionate. The PIP from Boldenone Cypionate is fucking harsh and many people complain of serious swelling and pain.'

Nolys after a few cycles I would advise you do some thinking, same goes for others reading this; If you are serious about bodybuilding after a few cycles you should consider blasting and cruising. I'll be making a thread on the subject in the coming week. Basically blasting and cruising is running a cycle (blasting) and then inbetween cycles you run a low dose of Testosterone (cruising) until your next blast.
 
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