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but WHY does Salvia have reverse tolerance?

I like RhythmSpring's Salvia posts. :D I am as intrigued as the years pass. Not only a reverse tolerance but experiences opening up and getting better for those who find it pleasant and useful tool to study the mind. There doesn't even seem to be mind when one is out there. Some type of pure experience.

Saliva has treated me well for the last 18 years when I visited. Like I had said in the past, Salvia to me is where a drug meets science fiction. Unreal some of the experiences.

Hope things are well RS. I am glad some of us found the value in Salvia.
 
I like this plant too. Still have more most of the couple I ounces I bought in 1999 and the potency remain the same. I love what the above poster said..where drug meets science fiction. That's pretty classic....great words.
 
I don't exactly think there is a reverse tolerance, but instead a familiarity with the effects and a corresponding enthusiasm which appears to be an enhanced reaction - it is!, this is not the same as reverse tolerance, there is no tolerance at all really. The stuff peaks in 90 seconds when smoked and fades mostly within half an hour. at which point you are not 100% at baseline, but whatever binding sites were triggered, they have become unbound and available again for the amazing psychedelic/ dream-world effect
 
pupnik said:
I don't exactly think there is a reverse tolerance, but instead a familiarity with the effects and a corresponding enthusiasm which appears to be an enhanced reaction t
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This familiarity leading to stronger, more complex experiences I found to be true for all dissociatives, if we are to consider salvia as one of them
 
it also works with marijuana the first 4 or 5 times you try it.
 
Which Salvia ROA will keep me off you tube? I'd just as soon not jump out a window or run down the street naked, etc.... I don't have a sitter, but want to try S.D. Quid? Eat it? Plug it...? li'l help please.
 
Apparently quidding/oral is much less intense and doesn't lead to that totally dissolved and/or terrifying place. Never tried it personally, I have smoked low to moderate amounts but never approached a breakthrough. Have had some really interesting experiences.
 
Img_9999 said:
This familiarity leading to stronger, more complex experiences I found to be true for all dissociatives, if we are to consider salvia as one of them
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for sure? I find that with dissos is easy to build a permatolerance that makes hard to hole like with the first trials
 
Maybe he means with occasional use, where there is no tolerance buildup?
 
phuckingnutz said:
li'l help please.
Click to expand...

Nutz, you seem intelligent and experienced (older too) so my advice which I normally would give to nobody I feel would be in good hands with you.

Only quidded a few times. Very mild. I need to work on it so no advice for quid.

My first few tries with smoked plain leaf never worked. I just felt weird. Then I crammed a big amount of 5x and hit it. What happened next is indescribable. I won't repeat it because I am sure I posted it a few times here in the Salvia threads. But that first time when it "happened" I did not have a sitter (actually never ever did with anything) and I almost got up until a soothing female voice whispered in my ear to relax and lie back. Then they showed me. I stayed put on the couch every since and never have gotten up in the trance for over 100 sessions. That's where I feel the science fiction comes in. It likes me. :) I respect it and say thank you coming out of the trance every time. Never ever got up and walked around. (But since this is an HR forum get a quiet sitter for your first time.... or don't)

So after that first breakthrough with an extract plain leaf works perfect now. 1/2 gram plain leaf in a tobacco pipe. Sit in the dark with absolute silence (any little noise snaps me out of the trance for a second) and take one one long pull the first time to test. After that take two or three hits and hold it in or a long time. Keep the lighter on the pipe the whole time you are pulling. It has to be hot. Then put the pipe down somewhere safe and sit back. I usually sit back and look to the left a little in the darkness. Sometimes my eyes closed but I see more dimensions with them open unlike DMT, which I usually have my eyes closed. I always feel refreshed and clear headed for a day or two after.

Plain leaf is all I need and like morninggloryseed I still have some original Oaxaca from 1998 and it still works perfect. More so now which is why I too am interested in why a reverse tolerance happens. But the experience is so strange I am not sure receptors and what not are going to be satisfying explanations. Sorcery is an excellent word.

Anyway, how I go about session with anything may not be as safe for others. But my experience is what it is. Be careful and respectful and as the story goes "she will come out and visit with you". Peace.
 
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The reverse tolerance could simply be receptor sensitization in response to a positive feedback cascade.
Most neuroendocrine receptors undergo desensitization (ie. some induce phosphorylation responses that lead to endocytotic uptake of the receptor into the cell where it can be stored, degraded, or dephosphorylated/reactivated using a protein phsophotase, thus reintegrating itself with the post-synaptic membrane.

Kappa-opioid receptors may undergo further sensitization in response to compounds that resemble their endogenous agonists, anyone who has taken an endocrinology pathway fully understands the sheer complexity and cross-integrated feedback loops between even seemingly unrelated endocrine systems.It may simply be that stimulation of the kappa-opioid receptor activates a protein kinase which stimulates protein synthesis/translation, or perhaps acts as a transcriptional regulator to increase kappa-opioid mRNA gene expression; thus increased sensitivity to stimulus.

In this complexity CNS becomes even more relevant because their feedback regulation is not only from their direct products, but their activity can be regulated by nearly every endocrine factor that is released in response to an integrated neural stimulus as it follows the hypothalamic-pituitary-endocrine gland axis.

It's certainly an interesting topic, once my finals are done I plan on trying to find some information on the pharmacodynamics of kappa-opioid receptors, the reverse tolerance has been anecdotally (and personally) verified numerous times.
 
^ Thanks HT, that is the slam dunk this post needed to bring it from sorcery back to science. It is a bit over my head but any info you find on the pharmacodynamics of kappa-opioid receptors please do post. I know on poppy tea which is loaded with different opiates hitting different receptors I use to also get a dreamy whisper in the ears and picture sequence type of nodding which may be from some kappa stimulation. I remember when it was discovered kappa was involved in Salvia's effects. It still makes me scratch my head. Lots to learn on this interesting plant.
 
Hey, thanks for all of your input! I havent had a computer for a week, so Im just checking this now.
A few points:

Im scared. Ill tell you why. My sensitivity to Salvia is THROUGH THE ROOF. Let me explain. A few days before starting this thread, I dosed Salvia. Did I smoke it? No. Did I quid it? No. Did I take the tea? No. Ill tell you. I opened the bag of leaves I have and smelled it. Twice. Then I closed it, because I knew how sensitive I was. I entered such a meditative, restful state, for the next two, three days. I promptly cut out all animal protein and felt my body cleansing. My face changed.

Then like 5 days later, I noticed the bag wasnt completely closed. I held my breath, closed the bag and promptly rushed outside to breathe some fresh air for a minute. I came back inside, and boom, 15 minutes later, "Woo, I *really* need a nap..." I lied down and had beautiful brain-knot-untying "dreams."

So this is why I ask, because I feel like someone across the street could smoke it and Id have a trip.


Another point:

After posting this I asked myself the same question about Salvias reverse-tolerance. I tried to think of an analogy. Here's the analogy I came up with:

Salvia-Space is like a palace filled with spirits. Maybe like in Spirited Away. When you first come in, they don't really know you. Maybe you smoked a high extract, in which case your entrance into that palace was like being thrown through the door or window in a hasty fiery ball, and maybe you made a mess, flailing around. You do some stuff, and before you know it, you're out. They're like, "What the heck was that?" "Who was that?" "I dunno..."

The next time, they know it's you, and they tentatively show you around. Or, if you were quidding, your entrance would be like a tentative approach to the doorway, a nervous knock, and a peek through the window. They say "Come on in!... who is that?" But you didn't take enough. But they like you because you're polite and won't break any windows.

The more you come to the palace, the more they recognize you. On the 100th time, they're like, "Hey everybody! It's RhythmSpring!" And then everybody in the palace knows. Perhaps the palace is the sum of all your kappa opioid receptors. If you're a patient quidder, then maybe they like you even more.

Basically what I'm saying that it boils down to a function of KNOWLEDGE and RECOGNITION.

One time, they told me not to come back. I did, a week later, and boy, were they PISSED. I've been trying to make it up to them ever since. I took a long break. And then recently, I decided to very cautiously and respectfully just take a peek through the windows (smell the bag). Some of them saw me, and shouted, "Hey look! It's him! He's back!!!" And EVERYBODY knew. Wanna know how I know? Because I felt it that strongly. My entire reality and perspective shifted, just a little bit.


I may be crazy.
 
yeah, but
fun crazy,
but it is time to go to a different palace.
one with less snarky fake people in it.
 
In addition to my above post, receptor sensitization isn't uncommon at all, for example it's critical for the proper function of the female reproductive cycle.
Follicle stimulating hormone when it activates it's receptor on the granulosa cells of the ovarian follicle, this in turn also triggers a signalling cascade (MAPK I believe) which leads to increased genomic translation of luteinizing hormone receptors, thus increasing the expression of LH receptors on the theca interna cells of the ovarian follicle.
This leads to high sensitivity to luteinizing hormone and and this surge in LH response is linked to causing the rupture of the ovarian follicle, aka ovulation.
Endocrinology is confusing and I'm fucking glad I'm done that course.

However in the central nervous system increased receptor sensitization in response to a stimulus is more uncommon than the peripheral nervous system, but still very important and critical to overall CNS function (think NMDA/AMPA receptor co-expression)
 
RS, I wonder if the mere suggestion of salvia, via the smell or sight of the leaves, was enough to relive your old memories of salvia's effects? This is quite possible. For example, I've developed such an association between loading my cannabis pipe and getting stoned, that I usually begin to feel a bit stoned before I even burn the material.
 
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