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  • BDD Moderators: Keif’ Richards | negrogesic

Bupe Bupe barely works

N

neu_nobody

Bluelighter
Joined
Mar 28, 2024
Messages
48
So, I was using morphine, in pretty high doses. Up to 600-700mg daily (oral). I am making a pause now, and using bupe for short-term detox.
So, 24h after my last dose I used ~12mg. DIdn't have PWs, but didn't feel good. Still have some nasty wd symptoms like elevated body temp, weir skin sensations, sweating and cold sweats. Also the sleep is pretty bad and I can barely eat anything.
Today is day 2, I used ~6mg and still feel shitty.
I used bupe in the past, and it worked pretty well, it did cover 100% of my wd symptoms (when I used 200mg of morphine or so)
My question is - was the morphine dose so high, so bupe doesnt work? Usually day 2 is the most brutal for me, will it work better later? I don't plan to use it long term, just for a few days to cover the wds
 
neu_nobody said:
So, I was using morphine, in pretty high doses. Up to 600-700mg daily (oral). I am making a pause now, and using bupe for short-term detox.
So, 24h after my last dose I used ~12mg. DIdn't have PWs, but didn't feel good. Still have some nasty wd symptoms like elevated body temp, weir skin sensations, sweating and cold sweats. Also the sleep is pretty bad and I can barely eat anything.
Today is day 2, I used ~6mg and still feel shitty.
I used bupe in the past, and it worked pretty well, it did cover 100% of my wd symptoms (when I used 200mg of morphine or so)
My question is - was the morphine dose so high, so bupe doesnt work? Usually day 2 is the most brutal for me, will it work better later? I don't plan to use it long term, just for a few days to cover the wds
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Hello there,

those 600mg morphine, are those extended release?
 
neu_nobody said:
Yep, but I remove the capsule and dissolve it in water (plus remove the wax), so they are basically IR. You think it's PW?
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I made some calculations to get the equianalgesic value of sublingual suboxone from 600-700mg of oral morphine IR. I ended up with 13-16mg sublingual suboxone. Assuming you did sublingual it seems like you might have dosed too low.
 
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Are you taking strips or tablets? With Naloxone?
I transitioned from methadone to suboxone a loooong time ago, and my doc was ADAMANT about waiting 72 hours before starting subs.
If you only waited 24 hours, you definitely threw yourself into wd. I've seen it happen a few times. I don't think it's as brutal as it could be, because of how you were preparing your morphine. Starting with 600 - 700mg and dissolving in water, you lose so much potency, then taking orally you're taking away a lot of the punch too.
Id go with another 6 today, even 12 if you can manage. Tomorrow 16.
Like 7 years ago I went to the clinic to kick kratom (no, not my first rodeo, but I didn't think I'd be that sick, and my insurance paid) I was only taking 20 -30 grams a day and they wanted to start me on 12mg subs or methadone.
24 hours just wasn't long enough
 
sHR00m said:
I made some calculations to get the equianagesic value of sublingual suboxone from 600-700mg of oral morphine IR. I ended up with 13-16mg sublingual suboxone. Assuming you did sublingual it seems like you might have dosed too low.
Click to expand...
You are probably right.
It seems like my Morphine habit was indeed too strong, so even bupe can't cover the wds for 100%. It was a bad surprise for me.

Carpetshark said:
Are you taking strips or tablets? With Naloxone?
Click to expand...
Subutex tablets, no naloxone. No, those are not PWs, 100%. Because I def felt better after subs, just not 100% normal.
 
neu_nobody said:
You are probably right.
It seems like my Morphine habit was indeed too strong, so even bupe can't cover the wds for 100%. It was a bad surprise for me.


Subutex tablets, no naloxone. No, those are not PWs, 100%. Because I def felt better after subs, just not 100% normal.
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Ok, that makes a lot more sense. One of the PWs i saw was a dude on methadone and decided to dip into his GFs subs. He took the equivalent of 2mg and spent the whole night writhing, sweating, and punching his legs until he got to the clinic the next morning where I saw him. I was ugly..

Take more subutex, always be careful, and I do hope you feel better
 
Yeah, it seems like a lot of morphine. Even if it is orally.
8mg/d is just starting to touch the ceiling dose.
 
I have some kratom, I wonder will it help? I've read that people had successfully used kratom with bupe.
Anyway will try it.
 
So some updates, today is day 3, and I had only 2-3mg of bupe left. Took it in the morning, again, didn't feel 100% ok (still have temperature fluctuations, stomach cramps and diarrhea, weakness and some discomfort) but it's not that bad.
Also I did add kratom, used 2 teaspoons with morning bupe and 3 ts now, and it definitely helped.
 
Okay I'm not really good versed in kratom as I d9nt care for it.

Overall sound like your bupe dose wasn't strong enough to knock everything of the receptors.

But seeing as you are where you are now, how much bupre left and are you going back to MsContin
 
neu_nobody said:
So some updates, today is day 3, and I had only 2-3mg of bupe left. Took it in the morning, again, didn't feel 100% ok (still have temperature fluctuations, stomach cramps and diarrhea, weakness and some discomfort) but it's not that bad.
Also I did add kratom, used 2 teaspoons with morning bupe and 3 ts now, and it definitely helped.
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This confirms that it wasn’t enough bupe. Thanks for reporting back!
 
I have used buprenorphine in the past (always IV) for h wds, and I found that it worked pretty well during my first two or so years of use, when my habit was low (a baggie, two baggies) or moderate (between 1/4 and 1/2 g, closer to 1/4)
As time went by and I keep using, bupe ended up not being enough, it didn't cover my wds like it used to.
Bupe isn't like methadone, it can't cover serious habits, speciall long term ones.
I think that 700 mg of morphine is a serious habit, nothing crazy, but serious enough for bupe to cover it, imo.
If you want to substitute your morphine with a opioid maintenance drug, I see two options:
a) methadone
b) taper your morphine dose to a point where buprenorphine could work for you again.
I think that option b is more advisable, if you can get enough relief to feel more or less confortable without having to go on methadone, that's what you probably should do
 
Hey @neu_nobody :)

My opinion is that your dosage is high enough that you're going to be dealing with a little more discomfort and a longer resolution phase than you experienced on the lower dose of Morphine. I've used very high doses of Heroin intravenously and attempted to use Buprenorphine and I couldn't get to that "right" place for a few days. By day 3, you should start to see some significant relief and each day thereafter will get increasingly easier.

I don't think anything is wrong per se. You just are going to be a little more uncomfortable for a little while longer. You could potentially raise the dose on the Buprenorphine by 25% and see if that helps. However, your main issue here is time. Just stick with it and you'll start feeling better very soon.
 
I find bupe a weird and wonderful opioid. I could always go on heavy weekend binges of normally oxy, morphine or H and never needed more then 2mg, sometimes 4mg max. To have my wd's like 1-2/10, like a shitty light hangover feeling. But most of the time 2mg did the trick and then would quickly drop down to 500mcg till next binge. I don't condone this type of use just wanted to point out how this drug can act so beautiful for one and not so for other. Plus then there is the ceiling effect but which is still out for debate at what dosages.

All that said. Hope you by now feeling 100%
 
Keif' Richards said:
I've used very high doses of Heroin intravenously and attempted to use Buprenorphine and I couldn't get to that "right" place for a few days. By day 3, you should start to see some significant relief and each day thereafter will get increasingly easier.
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That makes sense. When bupe started not being enough for me I just forgot it, I didn't insist as @Keif' Richards suggests.
While I have no experience doing so, it sounds reasonable, it can be a good advise for you to try
 
Coffeeshroom said:
I find bupe a weird and wonderful opioid. I could always go on heavy weekend binges of normally oxy, morphine or H and never needed more then 2mg, sometimes 4mg max. To have my wd's like 1-2/10, like a shitty light hangover feeling. But most of the time 2mg did the trick and then would quickly drop down to 500mcg till next binge. I don't condone this type of use just wanted to point out how this drug can act so beautiful for one and not so for other. Plus then there is the ceiling effect but which is still out for debate at what dosages.

All that said. Hope you by now feeling 100%
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May I ask how long you waited for the bupe after your binges?
 
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