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⭐️ Social ⭐️ Bunk kratom and the state of the US market

I know what you mean about kratom keeping you off the booze. I credit kratom with my ability to stay away from the hardcore drugs (crack, heroin) that I abused for years. And I’ve seen on other places like Reddit and thekratomforum (before they folded) that other people have used kratom for these purposes also. Kratom helps people stay sober-ish, it just makes those other things so much less appealing.
 
Snafu in the Void said:
The doctor just messaged me and didn't seem too worried. My albumin levels were higher than they're supposed to be. Albumin/globulin ratio was elevated, but my other values were acceptable.

He thinks my bile ducts are dilated, but this wasn't picked up on ultrasound would probably need MRI but I can't afford that atm.

Apparently kratom can dilate bile ducts like typical opioids.

Basically just told me to stop taking kratom and made a follow up appointment
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not to be too intrusive but do you have medical insurance and if your doctor recommended it, IDK if I would risk my health over a couple bucks. If the doctor went too concerned about you getting the MRI then yea save the money but if it means the difference between imaging a tumor or not...... money is of no use to you while you sick or dead lol
 
Delmonte421 said:
not to be too intrusive but do you have medical insurance and if your doctor recommended it, IDK if I would risk my health over a couple bucks. If the doctor went too concerned about you getting the MRI then yea save the money but if it means the difference between imaging a tumor or not...... money is of no use to you while you sick or dead lol
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No, I lost my insurance in January. I'm self pay. I've been meaning to apply for Medicaid but keep forgetting, and that usually takes 30+ days anyways.

I probably already have a $2500+ bill just from the labs and ultrasound.
 
Snafu in the Void said:
No, I lost my insurance in January. I'm self pay. I've been meaning to apply for Medicaid but keep forgetting, and that usually takes 30+ days anyways.

I probably already have a $2500+ bill just from the labs and ultrasound.
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Hola Snafu,
I’m on Medicaid, it took me a little while but then after waiting the process moved quickly once I was approved. Anyways, I was just reading that they might start making it harder in certain states for people to apply for Medicaid, so if you can try to get in quicker than later. Sorry gosh I probably sound like such a nag lol I just wanted to write this because I was just reading about it the other day.
Hugs 💜
 
Snafu in the Void said:
No, I lost my insurance in January. I'm self pay. I've been meaning to apply for Medicaid but keep forgetting, and that usually takes 30+ days anyways.

I probably already have a $2500+ bill just from the labs and ultrasound.
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You should definitely get on Medicaid. I have a plethora of chronic illnesses and I pay zip. As a drug user, it’s a good idea to have insurance, anyway, just in case something happens. I think they do backdate it if you get on it, but not forever obviously, so time is of the essence.

Also what @AngelsandFairiesarereal said is true, the fuckers are probably gonna make it harder to get on Medicaid especially if you live in certain states. Because socialism or something, idk….
 
Snafu in the Void said:
No, I lost my insurance in January. I'm self pay. I've been meaning to apply for Medicaid but keep forgetting, and that usually takes 30+ days anyways.

I probably already have a $2500+ bill just from the labs and ultrasound.
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Go for Medicaid asap, it's definitely worth the effort. They often backdate it to when you applied or became eligible too, so don't worry about the 30 days too much (and ime it was faster than that).
 
4meSM said:
I recently bought green malay from the most mainstream european vendor and it's pretty good, it's expensive though (almost 200€/kg). Most of their kratom is still in low stock (including the one I bought) so it's probably from an older batch.
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That's insane. One time I tried to buy directly from Indonesia because I was curious what it costs and how much vendors are profiting. I found out 1kg of kratom only costs about 5-10 USD, but shipping is like 40 USD. It's almost like purchasing air over there.

Snafu in the Void said:
Yes, I noticed this as well with any of the stimulating strains. Kratom never used to give me anxiety at any dose or with any strain. But with this new stuff even small doses of green or white strains give me rather intense anxiety, like you say almost like a caffeine overdose. It overpowers any calming effects. Probably also the cause of my recent chest pain and palpations.

I wonder what happened to the market... really quite disappointing as kratom really helps me stay off alcohol.
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I'm going to keep very close tabs on this thread cause I have very similar problems as you. When I post on forums dedicated to kratom (or reddit), they just invalidate my experience and say that it's not the kratom. It's a perfect holy thing to them.
Do you notice any itching that accompanies the chest pain? Cause it started to make me itch.
I was using it for 4 years, then quit (because of side effects) for 3 months and 1 week. After that break, I tried it again for 5 days last week and the symptoms returned on the second to third day.
Don't worry about your heart though. Sometimes I get palpitations from it too, but it's always withdrawal related and happens when it's wearing off or if I didn't take enough. It could also be electrolyte imbalance cause of excess water consumption - drink gatorade or something.
The liver though; I can see that being a problem. There's a ton of alkaloids in there. When I brew my tea it sometimes gets an oil slick on top of the water and turns into chocolate milk when it cools down (and that's with it 100% filtered and clear when it's hot). On top of that, if you already have a fatty liver from alcohol, then it's probably going to have more of an impact on you.

I'm really surprised that you have high levels of heavy metals cause I wouldn't expect there to be any more in kratom than in any other plant.
Do you vape? Cause there are studies showing it alters liver function and could also be a source of heavy metals. That combined with the kratom might lead to a toxic buildup.
 
Synaps3 said:
That's insane. One time I tried to buy directly from Indonesia because I was curious what it costs and how much vendors are profiting. I found out 1kg of kratom only costs about 5-10 USD, but shipping is like 40 USD. It's almost like purchasing air over there.
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Yeah it's very expensive but can't order from Indonesia from my current location and my usual vendor has been out of stock for a while.
Synaps3 said:
Do you vape? Cause there are studies showing it alters liver function and could also be a source of heavy metals.
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I immediately thought about that when I saw the high lead levels.
@Snafu in the Void just out of curiosity, would you mind telling us what kind of coil you use in your vape (as well as the brand)?
 
@4meSM Smok RPM2 mesh coils. I've pretty much always used smok products. I also tend to use coils way past their intended lifespan.

@Synaps3 I've had dry skin for a long time, but alcoholism would explain that. I haven't drank in a month but it takes longer than that for the skin to heal.

My legs, especially my shins, have been very itchy and sometimes red. But that's where my cat likes to give me love bites and scratches. Probably the explanation, since I don't itch anywhere else.
 
Snafu in the Void said:
@4meSM Smok RPM2 mesh coils. I've pretty much always used smok products. I also tend to use coils way past their intended lifespan.

@Synaps3 I've had dry skin for a long time, but alcoholism would explain that. I haven't drank in a month but it takes longer than that for the skin to heal.
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An easy thing would be to temporarily change to a very common device like a juul or change your juice brand and nic concentration. I once had a batch of juice that made all my kratom symptoms 100x worse, plus nausea that I didn't have beforehand. The nausea part went away right after I switched juice.
Considering it's only been a month since you stopped drinking, it's possible that your liver is still healing right now and it just needs more time. I don't know if you mentioned how long you been drinking cause you wrote a lot.
 
Snafu in the Void said:
Edit: so turns out I now have heavy metal poisoning from this shit kratom. Lead, nickel and arsenic. I always knew this was a possibility, but didn't make the connection until it was too late. I am having a dozen shitty symptoms now including severe ones like difficulty breathing, irregular heart rate, chest pains, persistent headache and strong mental fog.

I am never buying headshop kratom ever again, you should avoid it at all cost. It used to be decent, but the kratom market expanded so rapidly they've begun sourcing it from the worst of the worst farmers who do not test their soil for these contaminants.

South East Asian soil is notorious for being contaminated with lead, as well as nickel, cadmium and arsenic.

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I've had a pretty good pulse on the kratom quality over the last 10 years and recently I have noticed a very sharp increase in the amount of horribly bad kratom going around, potentially dangerous stuff.

Note I am not talking about stuff from small businesses, but the commercial stuff you find in headshops and the bigger brands, although this could effect all of it.

I believe several large distributors have switched suppliers to a highly inferior product.

It's not just low quality stuff I'm griping about, but stuff that doesn't have any effect at all other than horrible side effects.

This bad stuff:
-No detectable opioid effects at ANY dose (even with zero tolerance), only a very mild and crappy stimulant effect-- and not a good stim either. Overall there is almost no effect at all, other than it makes you feel like shit for 8 hours.
- persistent headache that doesn't respond to acetaminophen or NSAIDs
- persistent stomach ache & nausea
- awful, extremely bitter taste (relative to good kratom)

Visually this stuff looks normal, but it smells very bad. Good kratom has a deep earthy smell, and a sweet tinge to it which I assume are the sugars in the leaf.

This bad stuff smells bitter, old, dry almost rancid and has a distinct bitter chemical smell. It does not have that earthy sweet smell at all. It leaves a very bad bitter taste in your mouth, I actually love the taste of good kratom, but this tastes toxic.

I suspect this stuff is potentially dangerous because the headache and stomach ache feel very unnatural, and not due to alkaloids but something toxic in it.

This isn't exactly sketchy gas station brands either. I have noticed at least 2 brands that I buy from trusted headshops that seemed to switch to this new supplier. I have used these brands for years and they used to be good, something changed.

I actually rated these brands 4/5 on BL a couple years ago. Within the last year I now rate them 0/5. Same brand, same packaging, same strain, same price, but now infinitely worse.

Anyone else notice a decline in the US kratom market quality?
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You've pretty much nailed it. The worst strains I had were disgustingly bitter and some people think bitterness is a sign of higher potency. Headshop kratom isn't necessarily always bad however. Amazing Herbs is a brand at my headshop and it's very good. There was one vendor who had decent stuff but my right hand started to turn yellow after awhile of taking it. I've never had that happen with any other vendor or kratom.

Gas station/smoke shop extracts, though, those can be dangerous. I tried one last summer and it got me fucked up beyond belief, and I have a kratom tolerance. I suspect there could've been other things added to it. All I know is that little tube was like drinking 100g of kratom at once mixed with isopropyl, it was abysmal. I was chugging chocolate milk after that and it still didn't get the taste out of my mouth.

Can't forget that if it's brown, 95% of the time it's going to be shitty. The vendor I used to use had a lot of crappy brown stuff, I avoided all of their reds for this reason. Only a select few "strains" were consistently good, and they were always green vein. White veins feel a bit weaker to me, but that's the only type of kratom that actually has a slightly different effect since they grind up the "bones" or the stems/inner stem of the leaf which actually does have stimulant properties. Strains aren't really a thing though, the stuff's either good or bad.

It just to happened my vendor would put up specific batches/lot numbers for the ones that were potent for me and I only went with those which were consistently good. The smoke shop kratom where I'm at though is actually really good. But a vitamin/herb shop near there has pretty weak shit. I'd feel withdrawals despite taking usual doses. Their red strains are also brown, but I've had 2 from the one vendor I used to use that were literally dirt, and the 2nd one was supposed to be "white jongkong" or something. It took 20g to even feel a bit of it, whereas 5g will get me really stoned now and was always around the area that would.

I'd agree most smokeshop kratom is bad though. Just this one little store in my area has a big display of kratom and I've only got the green every time. I always go for the green because that usually means it was dried inside and no alkaloids destroyed. Whites are grown indoors too, but apparently that one I had didn't or was labeled wrong.
 
unless you were up all night smoking xcrack or speed lol but I slept great and just woke up feeling great. I don't understand people who sleep in. I cant, even when I would drink a 30 pack of beer plus a day with drugs I would still wake up at 6am run misery
 
My alarm goes off every morning at 6 AM. However, I was in Chicago recently so it got confused and went off at 5 🤦🏻‍♀️ no worries, I had laundry to get done anyway. A mothers job has no weekends!!!
 
www.fda.gov

Laboratory Analysis of Kratom Products for Heavy Metals

FDA releases test results identifying dangerous levels of heavy metals in certain kratom products
www.fda.gov www.fda.gov

Here’s the study by the FDA. Heavy metals aside Kratom is a really nasty dirty drug. Also hepatoxic


Sorry to OP….another victim of what drug prohibition does.

Someone’s gonna make the drug if the drug companies aren’t allowed to and it’s gonna have a lot of poison in it…..that’s how ALL drug policy should be explained to anyone
 
Burnt Offerings said:
Damn that sucks dude. That's why it's important for government groups (or at least private entities like Consumer Reports, which did a good piece recently on cadmium and lead content of cacao products recently) to test and regulate food/drugs within a legalized context, so consumers are protected from that kind of thing.

www.consumerreports.org

Lead and Cadmium Could Be in Your Dark Chocolate - Consumer Reports

Consumer Reports tested 28 dark chocolate bars and found cadmium and lead in all of them. Here's how to limit your heavy metal exposure.
www.consumerreports.org www.consumerreports.org
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Most ppl in government want to kill kratom users so why not just let this continue like they have been for a decades that we’ve known about these heavy metals

If they could someone how get away with it they would just shoot kratom users on sight. None of them have the slightest idea what kratom is…..just the sheriff at their church told them about it and it’s like heroin
 
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