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Brand New Phen? - 2,5 Dimethoxy 3,4 MDMA

thank you bishop and fastandbulbous

everyone else should hang their heads in shame.. i am disgusted at your utter disregard of IUPAC nomeclature! substituents must be named in alphebetical order
 
Words of wisdom, based upon the strength of a nation. This could be a pretty decent and unique drug. However, your friend is probably dreaming. Theory is great, but if there are no crystals in a jar, then what is there to go on? Also, he can't just make money on it because the DEA are bound to show up on his door and bust his ass for something. If he has made it, it is better to keep it underground (secret) until he has discussed it with his legal advisor and built his own website. My guess is the alpha methyl entity is not needed. I recommend 2C-G-N as a good under-recognized drug. Nice challenging synthesis and drops a not too uncompromising payload.
 
Yeah man. If I was in your position I'd only sell to friends and trusted BL'ers. But thats just me.
 
like me :)
haha, that would be awesome if your friend had uncovered a new psychedelic substance. keep us posted w/ reports of how ur little "self-experimentation" goes if you decide to try it on urself.
 
I don't think they have any intention to start selling this stuff to random kids looking for kicks. Given that it's a new psychedelic, its got a name like DMMDMA its not like kids at a rave or some such are gonna appreciate or recognize it. Something practically no one has ever heard of before... and which comes with no gaurantees in terms of any human or animal trials is not likely to become a popular street drug overnight. That's absurd. Why waste it on people who won't appreciate it. Between LSD, Psilocin, mescaline, MDMA, MDA and 2C-x theres enough psychedelics out there for the vast majority of people. The random uneducated trip-seeker would probably only acknowledge it "weird acid" or something of the like anyway.

"However, your friend is probably dreaming. Theory is great, but if there are no crystals in a jar, then what is there to go on? "

The synthesis is finished - the material is there and apparently two people have tried and quite liked it, it's just a little soggy, though still active, he's in the process of going about drying it to my understanding.
 
...and after it is dried he will send 10 grams of it express mail to jebusjoe2003, who will try it and write a detailed trip report for bluelight.

-jj

I kid.
 
My apologies, I mistakenly said DMMDMA-2 when I meant DMMDMA. This is not brand new, its synthesis and taste testing have been described on that site we cannot link to, and a variety of synthesis for it, including shulgin's papers on it are posted on the sister site of the site we cannot link to.

See:
Psychotropic Phenylisopropylamines derived from Apiole and Dillapiole
Alexander T. Shulgin
Nature 215, 1494-95 (1967)

"Both are made from the Dillapiole contained in Parsley seed oil in exactly the same manner as MDMA is made from sassafrass oil, however unfortunately paresley seed oil containing Dillapiole is almost impossible to find.
This brings up my last point, there is a good possibility that somebody is BULLSHITTING."

Shulgin's synthesis models are not the only ones for most any of the chemicals he discusses. In most cases, they aren't the most efficient either. There are many several potentially different synthesis routes for any of these chemicals using different precursors.
Click to expand...
Good point, but who was talking about Shulgin's synthesis models? Talking about DMMDA in particular, Apiole is the ONLY route ever used to make this Essential Amphetamine, because it is the simplest and easiest. There is no chemist on earth with the skill level necessary to synthesize such a molecule who would start from anything OTHER than apiole, because such a complexly substituted benzene ring is INCREDIBLY difficult to intentionally synthesize. Why would anybody bother with such difficult steps as substituting a benzene ring when nature provides it for them?! Unfortunately Apiole, despite the abundance literature available on the internet saying otherwise, is NOT available in appreciable quantities from any essential oil on the commercial market [frown] ... I wish it were, and I wish the essential oil companies would be more forthcoming with the sheets disclosing the constituants of their oils.

On a theoretical topic, does anybody with good legal knowledge (particularly a lawyer), know the potential legalities of setting up a home laboratory (much like Shulgin's) for the sole purpose of synthesizing DMMDA from Apiole? Does it matter whether or not you will injest it?
 
I am extremely interested in this thread!

Thanks bishop for the details....really, really, looking forward to you're account of the chem..
 
Yeah, I dont believe it. Even if you pal did cook up some of this stuff, omitting the N-Me would be recommended. The methylenedioxy group is far too weak to want to put at the 3,4-positions anyway. Since this stuff is an amphetamine, there is NO WAY that the authorities are going to be complacent with it. In short, this idea completely falls through the cracks.
 
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This is not brand new, its synthesis and taste testing have been described on that site we cannot link to, and a variety of synthesis for it, including shulgin's papers on it are posted on the sister site of the site we cannot link to.


I'm not 100% sure of which particular "site we aren't alowed to link to" you're referring to, but if it sound a bit like Sodium, and I think it might. I found discussion there, albeit very limited on DMMDMA-2 but not DMMDMA. DMMDMA-2 has its methoxys on the 2 3 positions and the methylenedioxy bridge on the 4 & 5 positions. This still isn't what we are reffering to here... we're looking for 2,5-dimethoxy,3-4-methylenedioxymethamphetamine. There's no mention on the site, that I can find, of DMMDMA. I'm not aware of its sister site though.

"Since this stuff is an amphetamine, there is NO WAY that the authorities are going to be complacent with it. In short, this idea completely falls through the cracks."

As far as I know buddy has 0 intention of marketing this stuff. It would probably be pretty pointless as generating mainstream interest in yet another obscure psychedelic analogue would be both difficult and just highly unlikely.
 
it's if it becomes popular

"Since this stuff is an amphetamine, there is NO WAY that the authorities are going to be complacent with it. In short, this idea completely falls through the cracks."


No, because IAP is an amphetamine, as is 4-methoxy-N-ethylamphetamine, yet law enforecement didn't come down heavy specifically on those compounds. It's more to do with if it becomes popular in it's own right (2C-T-7), or is commonly misrepresented as a controlled drug (AET as MDMA).
If by chance, it looked like it may be creating it's own place in the drug market (like MDMA or ketamine), then they'd come down on it like a ton of bricks, but otherwise it would just get classed as another "one to watch" (and these rarely become popular in their own right, except in special interest market - like the RC's).

I'm still doubtful of it having full psychedelic activity, but I hope I'm wrong
 
Bah, I'm gonna call bullshit on this whole thing until some good NMR and mass spec data appears.

Also you say he started from benzene? Either he's fairly skilled and knowledgeable, and has access to an ample supply of equipment and reactants, or he's a complete moron who's spouting utter bullshit.

Not trying to flame or anything, but just to claim synthesis of a compound and not disseminating any of the spectral data or the route taken really doesn't do much to convince one of the veracity of those claims.
 
Yeah, no offense, but the 'starting from benzene' bit is a tad sketchy. Most aromatic substitution reactions are a bitch to perform. Besides, how in the hell could anyone properly direct an alkyl group, two methoxy groups and a 3,4-MDO moiety onto unsubstituted benzene? I can see one or two substituents, but five? with proper regiochemistry?

I'd have to see the NMR spectra.
 
Ok... so it looks like I mayhave a change to give the stuff a test run on Monday. I think I'll start around 15mg and work my way up.. any suggestions?

Also, for sake of clarifying this discussion, would it be rude if I asked the guy for the details of his synthesis route. Im no chemist myself, so I'm not sure if that's an uncooth question. I'm also not sure if chemists generally try to/want to keep their own novel synthesis routes private. Like if putting it on BL would be something harsh to do. I guess I could ask him how he feels about. Aslo, is posting a complete synthesis model against the Psychedelic Drug Forum's rules?
 
details

Bishop,

Asking about the basics of the synth is not something that anybody who actually indulges in organic chem would take offence at (like the starting material, and overall yeild). If you start asking about specific details, such as temp/pressure/reaction time and specifics of reagents used, then some might think that you are trying to "steal" the info that they may have spent a lot of time and energy working on, but most would be happy to give quite a few details.

If your friend didn't start with apiole or 2,5-dimethoxy-3,4-methylenedioxybenzaldehyde, he's either a fucking good synthetic chemist (generally post-grad level), or he has a touch of the Hans Christian Anderson's. Either way, ask him about the synth
 
haven't had a chance to meet with buddy and buddy yet. He was out of town over the weekend, talked to him monday, was supposed to call me Tuesday or Wednesday. I'll keep you all posted though.
 
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