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TDS Blind Opiate Detox - Anyone Know Anything?

J

jmaransky

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Mar 27, 2012
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I have a friend who recently went through what they called a 7 day "Blind Opiate Detox" and we are trying to figure out exactly how it worked. He was a heavy Opiate use - aprox 15-20 oxycodone 30 mg pills a day for the last 18 months and went to a rehab that used this method. The detox was a 7 day Subutex (the pill - not the Suboxone film) taper - The "Blind" part meant they did not tell you how much medication you were getting - they crushed up the subutex and gave it in powder form. They gave the subutex twice a day - at 9am and 9pm. even though it was "Blind" you could estimate the amounts being given by looking at the crushed up powder and guessing the mg involved. Our best guess/estimate is the taper looked something like the below schedule. Based on this, we estimate over the 7 day period you got a total of somewhere between 25 - 35mg of Subutex. We are looking for verification/validation on if you think the below schedule/amounts makes sense and are accurate/realistic for a detox like this:

Day 1: 9am - nothing / 9pm - 4 - 6 mg
Day 2: 9am - 4mg / 9pm - 4mg
Day 3: 9am - 3-4mg/ 9pm - 3-4mg
Day 4: 9am - 2-3 mg / 9pm - 2-3 mg
Day 5: 9am - 1-2mg / 9pm - 1-2 mg
Day 6: 9am - .5 - 1mg / 9pm - nothing
Day 7: 9am - .5mg / 9pm - nothing


As an FYI - it was a relatively painless detox considering the amounts and the time of use. the first night was rough - unable to shut of brain/stop twitching ... could not sleep - felt terrible - but by about 9/10am on day 2, that all went away - just very tired and achy and no appetite but very bearable -by day 3/4 appetite came back and felt pretty decent - the last 2 days actually felt pretty good - only issue was it was tough to sleep. So with the exception of the first night - this was a relatively painless detox which was surprising based on amounts detoxing from - attribute rough first night to the dramatic shift from 20 0xy 30 a day to nothing but a few mg of Subutex. ... but I thin that can't be avoided.
 
Interesting concept, thanks for posting this. It seems to try and play the placebo effect. So you're saying that they did not experience any withdrawal after this?

The placebo effect is very significant and a some amazing facts can be found in 13 Things that Don't Make Sense.

Chapter 12 of this book. written by Michael Brooks who holds a PHd in in Quantum Physics.

13 things that dont make sense
 
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It sounds quite mild. Besides the efforts, maybe you have had a good timing choosing to quite earlier than most of us.
 
I agree the placebo affect can be quite powerful and was probably a part of this whole process. That is part of what we are trying to figure out. Again - the amounts above are estimates and based on educated guesses - they also match fairly closely with some of other tapers we've seen. There were no increased/surprise withdrawal affects after the taper was over - there was/is the classic PAWS type affects - its not like this left them feeling magically "cured" - still struggling with all the same things other addicts deal with after the acute withdrawals ... but working through those to best of ability. The taper it self also was not "easy" - it was "easier" than expected but still had its challenging times/periods ...
 
It would be interesting to see what would happen if a person was told they were receiving subutex, at different times and strengths, but in reality was given none.

The lengths of acutes for oxy are usually right around a week. If they were pretty much done with the acutes in a week then I wonder if they received anything at all, or if this was just a promoted illusion to harness positive placebo effects.

EDIT: Here is some info I found on this. Blind Methadone Detox – The Pros and Cons of a Blind Taper
 
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neversickanymore said:
It would be interesting to see what would happen if a person was told they were receiving subutex, at different times and strengths, but in reality was given none.

The lengths of acutes for oxy are usually right around a week. If they were pretty much done with the acutes in a week then I wonder if they received anything at all, or if this was just a promoted illusion to harness positive placebo effects.

EDIT: Here is some info I found on this. Blind Methadone Detox – The Pros and Cons of a Blind Taper
Click to expand...

That would be pretty unethical no?
 
everything unethical needs to be done for the good of the world think of the french doctor that cured rabies by injecting a kid with rabies... well maybe not everything but placebo effect should be researched more
 
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