birdup.snaildown
Greenlighter
Xorkoth said:
Would you care to discuss why you disagree?
Xorkoth said:
This, in particular.
Social Justice Black Lives Matter Discussion Thread
- Thread starter PriestTheyCalledHim
- Start date
Would you care to discuss why you disagree?
This, in particular.
Burnt Offerings
Bluelight Crew
Yeah. Emphasis on the words "if true". I'm not too hot on some of these sources like gateway pundit etc
JessFR
Bluelight Crew
Well I think it's obvious what's happened here, somehow Bart Simpsons managed to sneak his bedroom into my house. :D
Edit: sorry if that came off dismissive, it's just amazing to me how people seem to invent versions of what they think happened completely unsupported by the evidence as if Zimmerman was a racist criminal mastermind.
If the evidence is consistent with Zimmerman version of what happened, I don't think it's a leap to suggest it's because.. Maybe he was just telling the truth?
But that's not what people wanna believe, so they invent scenarios that are a lot more complicated but allow Zimmerman to be to blame yet somehow make the evidence seem as if he was defending himself.
I know it's exceedingly rare, but every now and then.. Young men attack people. Even rarer still occasionally some of them are black. It is possible Trayvon Martin just picked a fight with someone he assumed was unarmed, and lost that bet.
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Xorkoth
Bluelight Crew
I did, that was the point of my posts. But to your specific question, I'm saying that the root of the cultural problems you allude to (there being more black people getting in altercations with cops for example, or the current culture of violent ghettos run by gangs) are due to baked-in racism that had its roots in slavery and which continued full stop for 100 years after slavery officially ended (Jim Crow era), and which have not magically disappeared with civil rights in the 20th century. Violent ghettos were a created problem, we now know because of the freedom of Information act, that the CIA purposely flooded black neighborhoods with crack in the 80s, in order to fill up for-profit prisons, and to lower the property values. Then developers bought up these properties for dirt cheap and gentrified them, and that was, in fact, the purpose behind doing it. Read about it, it's not conspiracy, it's real. Because of that, and other policy decisions, we have a disproportionate population of black people participating in violent crime, because it is extremely difficult to survive in that environment 9which was, again, purposely created) without becoming part of the problem. The anger and hatred that black people feel towards white people and cops was created by hundreds of years of oppression which continued (with the example I gave and others) even decades after civil rights. This sent a message that no matter what they did, nothing would change. And we heard about cops being at war with black people back in the 80s, 90s, and it's kept going on. We heard it in 90s hip hop, which gave a voice to a generation. And to this day I still hear black people all over the place with stories about how they were treated in their "projects" (the ghetto neighborhoods). I went to a DUI alcohol treatment class a couple of years ago and one of the guys there I made friends with, his stories were really revealing and shocking to me. In the 10 weeks we did the class, he had a friend and an uncle get shot and killed by the police. I consider it arrogance and dismissiveness of the highest degree for me, who hasn't lived through the experience of anyone else, to say "well I looked at some statistics, and I certainly haven't seen anything, therefore you're just complaining and need to pull yourselves up by your bootstraps", or "you must be imagining it".
Ultimately, more than anything else, it's the experiences of people I have talked to or heard speaking, many people, who unequivocally explain how racism continues to have a dramatic impact on their lives. How can I refute their experiences? That would be arrogant of me.
TheLoveBandit
Retired Never Was, Coulda been wannabe
Compliance with Testing & Flu Vaccine Requirements <<< Cornell website
Compliance with Testing & Flu Vaccine Requirements
Cornell's Behavioral Compact for the 2020-2021 academic year outlines several important steps that students must take as they return to Ithaca. In addition to requiring the wearing of masks and engagement in physical distancing, the Compact requires students to participate in ongoing surveillance testing for COVID-19 and to be vaccinated against seasonal influenza. Collectively, these measures are critical for reducing viral infections within our community and also protecting the most vulnerable among us (e.g., older individuals and people with pre-existing health conditions). Access to COVID-19 testing and flu vaccine is made available for all students by systems put in place at the beginning of the school year.A history of mistreatment & lack of access to appropriate care
We recognize that, due to longstanding systemic racism and health inequities in this country, individuals from some marginalized communities may have concerns about needing to agree to such requirements. For example, historically, the bodies the of Black, Indigenous, and other People of Color (BIPOC) have been mistreated, and used by people in power, sometimes for profit or medical gain. We know this history and validate the potential concerns it may raise. At the same time, we know that long-standing social inequalities and health disparities have resulted in COVID-19 disproportionately affecting BIPOC individuals. Higher percentages of individuals from these communities become infected with COVID, and the health outcomes related to infection are often more serious. Away from campus community, BIPOC individuals are not as likely to have access to preventive services or quality health care. The systems, services, and policies being implemented at Cornell seek to address these inequalities as well as the differential impacts.The importance of this moment and compliance with health requirements
The aforementioned inequities and injustices may lead some individuals to have reservations about testing and immunization, yet it is also important to acknowledge the critical role these measures play in protecting community health and well-being. In fact, they are likely to be especially helpful for BIPOC communities. For example, annual influenza vaccination is recommended for every individual 6 months or older who does not have medical contraindications, as it is the best way to help protect against flu. The vaccine has been shown to reduce the risk of flu illnesses, hospitalizations, and flu-related deaths. Those who get the vaccine not only protect themselves, but also the people around them who may be more vulnerable to serious flu illness, including infants, older adults, and those with underlying health conditions. They are designed to help students stay safe, and they are part of the quality health care students can access while on campus.Support along the way
Cornell Health is offering continued flu vaccination clinics. While Cornell Health is not directly conducting the COVID-19 arrival testing and surveillance testing at Cornell, our staff members work closely with the groups and departments who are. We can be a resource to any Cornell student who needs more information about either program. Please contact [email protected].You decide.
TheLoveBandit
Retired Never Was, Coulda been wannabe
Top Biden Adviser Says Administration To ‘Start Acting Now’ On Reparations
A senior adviser to President Joe Biden says the administration is “going to start acting now” on reparations to African Americans, saying there’s no time to wait for a commission to study the issue.
Congress is currently debating forming a commission to study how reparations could be implemented, but White House senior adviser Cedric Richmond told “Axios on HBO” in an interview set to air Monday that the issue shouldn’t wait for Congress.
“We don’t want to wait on a study. We’re going to start acting now,” he told the outlet. “We have to start breaking down systemic racism and barriers that have held people of color back and especially African Americans. We have to do stuff now.”
“Richmond said that while the timeline for the commission isn’t knowable, ‘if you start talking about free college tuition to [Historically Black Colleges and Universities] and you start talking about free community college in Title I and all of those things, I think that you are well on your way,'” Axios reported.
Last month, the White House said Biden is open to considering racial reparations depending on the actions of Congress, promising that the president is committed to taking “comprehensive action to address the systemic racism that persists today.”
White House Press Secretary Jen Psaki made the remarks during an exchange with a reporter who brought up that Biden said during his campaign that he supported a study for reparations. “Does the president support the legislation?” the reporter asked. “He stopped short of saying that during the campaign. Would he sign that if it came to his desk?”
“Well, he’s supported a study of reparations, which is I believe is what’s being discussed, and studying the continuing impacts of slavery, which is being discussed in this hearing on H.R. 40, I believe it is,” Psaki said. “And he continues to demonstrate his commitment to take comprehensive action to address the systemic racism that persists today. Obviously, that is — having that study is a part of that, but he has signed an executive order on his first day, which would begin to deliver on his commitment to having an across-government approach to addressing racial inequality and making sure equity is a part of his entire policy agenda.”
Reparations were first introduced by the late Rep. John Conyers (D-MI) in 1989, and has been reintroduced repeatedly in years since by Rep. Sheila Jackson Lee (D-TX).
But former President Barack Obama never pushed the issue, and last month told rocker Bruce Springsteen in a podcast that he would have liked to pursue reparations for slavery as part of his presidential agenda, but that the “politics of white resistance” made the issue a “non-starter.”
“Obama said he believes reparations are ‘justified’ and that ‘there’s not much question that the wealth… the power of this country was built in significant part — not exclusively, maybe not even the majority of it, but a large portion of it — was built on the backs of slaves,’” Fox News reported.
Psaki defends a committee and a study without commitment.
Biden's advisor says not to wait for Congress.
Obama says he couldn't do it in his EIGHT YEARS due to white resistance.
Ok then.
Burnt Offerings
Bluelight Crew
Seems pretty reasonable...they mention the mistrust that some groups may have towards vaccines in general, but encourage them to get the (flu) vaccine anyway, in accordance with the school's policy. I don't see anything along the lines of, "whitey needs to get vaccinated but everyone else doesn't".
Also, the article about the people-of-color rock climbing thing...the content of the article itself refutes the article's title! There isn't anything in that article that says anything remotely like "no white students allowed" in the description of this particular social group. Honestly a lot of this kind of stuff reminds me of the whole "there's a black student union, why isn't there a white student union?"-kind of thing
And finally, lol at Obama saying that he planned on doing reparations during his presidency. Obviously he hopes that no one actually remembers his presidency at this point, because anyone who actually lived through the 2008-2016 period will remember that there wasn't even a whiff of that during his presidency. He is right that reparations would've really whipped up all the people who thought that Obama was the bastard love child of Franz Fanon and Osama bin Laden, and that all the whites would soon be expected to report for duty in the cotton fields or something (some people could never make up their mind whether Obama was a radical atheistic communist, or a covert Muslim fundamentalist)
tubgirl.jpg
Bluelight Crew
Murder of Timothy Brenton - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
It doesn't really mention it in that article, but the incident that kicked off that attack was a videotape of a young girl getting assaulted in a prison cell by one of those hair-trigger goons who occupy many positions in law enforcement and corrections. It's an issue that has been simmering in this country for a long time, only to explode in Summer 2020
Fascist, ultranationalist and/or reactionary movements always find early support among military and state security services. It's part of that whole martial spirit and "respect my authoritah!" attitude that such ideologies fetishize. It's not even a necessarily a bad thing, as there is definitely room in this society for the warrior ethos and/or people who are willing to fight for justice. But it's been taken waaaay to far, people have leaned way too heavily into this mindset of the police being an occupying army and the citizens being potential insurgents. That's incredibly destructive for any kind of republic that supposedly grants rights to its citizens. I'm glad that things popped off in this country over the issue of police misconduct...anyone who views the excesses of the movement (burning, looting etc) and the danger of ochlarchy as being greater than the danger of condensed power in the form of a militarized state security service with practically unlimited control over the lives of everyday citizens...they need to get their head on straight and see the direction that this country and this world is headed in. The danger of a closed-ranks, militarized police service at the head of sophisticated system of surveillance and repression is a far greater threat to your rights and freedoms than a bunch of looters or people who want to police your pronouns or "defund the police"
.. SALUTE the dude who shot the officer Tim
TheLoveBandit
Retired Never Was, Coulda been wannabe
I bolded that part - “This class is for people who identify as Black, Indigenous, Latinx, Asian, or other people of color.”
But I agree, it is the 'where is my white student union' type claim.
Checking the source on the last three links I provided will show heavy right leans politically, so the bias should be expected in the writing.
tubgirl.jpg
Bluelight Crew
Reality paints a much different picture though. But I don't live in the US; all I know is what I've read and seen online.
And finding a bodycam/phone that captures cops killing black people is easy.
But where all the whites at being choked to death? The white 14-year girls getting punched and trashed around?
Hum, systematic profiling and racosm?
Okey, please show me these statistics you talk about, because that sounds like a straight out like.
Well, they're the ones being the brutes?
It's very complex, and I would definately say it's both cultural and racial.
No solution is easy, but getting these sadistic pigs off yer streets would help..
birdup.snaildown
Greenlighter
[pulverstaden said:
Statistics are statistics. Anecdotes are anecdotes. Media is biased.
Statistics?
Let's not just makes assumptions here.
Maybe black people have more encounters with the police because they are more likely to commit crime. Then there is the question of why (do they commit more crime). This is a valid question; it is the question.
"Risk is highest for black men, who (at current levels of risk) face about a 1 in 1,000 chance of being killed by police over the life course. The average lifetime odds of being killed by police are about 1 in 2,000 for men and about 1 in 33,000 for women."
-PNAS
"Victims were majority white (52% ) but disproportionately black (32% ) with a fatality rate 2.8 times higher among blacks than whites. Most victims were reported to be armed (83% ) however, black victims were more likely to be unarmed (14.8% ) than white (9.4% )"
It's complicated. Unarmed black men are more likely to be shot, but not by total encounter. The argument here is that black people are stopped more, not shot more.
It all comes down to why black people are stopped more on the streets and yet the killings occur less often - than with black or Asian people - happen to result in fatalities.
There are brutes on either side of the equation. It is complex. As for cultural or racist, they (racism/culture) are often viewed as the same thing. The colour of skin has nothing to do with many so-called racist problems. They are not genetic problems. They are cultural problems. BLM is part of the problem.
Calling our police officers brutes and racist/sadistic pigs is childish and disrespectful to the men and women that risk their lives every day to protect you.
EDIT: formatting. etc is imperfect; I am hungover
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birdup.snaildown
Greenlighter
Happy to examine these stats. I didn't double check them.
Let's assume that 1% of the US population encounters lethal force from the police in the united states.
I don't have the data off-hand for 2015, so we'll compare '15 to '17.
Again, I'm happy to examine these stats.
I've done this before.
457 white people were fatally shot by police in 2017. This number remains relatively consistent throughout the following 4 years. This - again - appears to be consistent.
232 (roughly half) black fatalities occurred at the hands of the police.
Again, we're comparing 200 black deaths to 400 white deaths... but there are obviously more white people than black people.
So you could assume racism, when adjusting for population.
Roughly one sixth of the US population is African American, for whatever reason, they commit a disproportionate amount of crimes.
Let's look at homicide. Black males (within a particular age bracket) commit over 60% of the homicides in the United States. This is more than a 10-fold increase according to their population.
If roughly half of the police killings happen to be black offenders, this makes sense doesn't?
The question remains why is there so much violence in African American communities. Perhaps it is the white man's fault. I blame welfare.
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birdup.snaildown
Greenlighter
Another thing to consider: the gender parallel.
Men commit more violent crimes and they are punished accordingly.
Nobody is sensibly suggesting a sexist conspiracy within police departments.
Do white men get shot more than white women because of sexist cops?
Think about it.
Men commit more violent crimes and they are punished accordingly.
Nobody is sensibly suggesting a sexist conspiracy within police departments.
Do white men get shot more than white women because of sexist cops?
Think about it.
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birdup.snaildown
Greenlighter
pulverstaden said:
Don't believe everything on the inernet.
(Except this particular statement.)
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JessFR
Bluelight Crew
Yeeeeees?
I've definitely noticed I've had more positive experiences with the cops than my male friends. Where with them the cops seem a lot less likely to take chances.
Burnt Offerings
Bluelight Crew
Someone posted this a while back but it was a very interesting lecture on the topic of race and crime IMO. It's provides interesting context for the lead-up to the present moment (she gave the talk in 2013), with some interesting facts (one such example she brings up is how there's supposedly more people in imprisoned for just drug offences in 2013 than there were imprisoned for ALL crime in 1980!)
What 23
Ex-Bluelighter
- Joined
- Jan 7, 2013
- Messages
- 3,905
If cops have any type of processing in them that can be considered "racially oriented", pertaining to perhaps threat assessments or whatever, then this makes sense. Cops are 18 times more likely to meet their ends when dealing with black males, than an unarmed black male is to meet their ends with them. Police are basically just normally in a state of DICK, and DEMON, and that doesn't bode well for people doing things they're afraid of getting caught for. And those people just don't really deal with it well..
The single-greatest thing I think we could do is fix this stupid drug war. That is one thing that CAN BE DONE that is good for everyone, and doesn't mean "redistribution of wealth" as if most white families are not working for what they've got, that might allow wealth to redistribute itself in the way that it can be.
This brings me to another thought, this idea of "racial equality". Just how do we achieve or accomplish that? White people aren't equal to other white people. I'm not even equal to myself on my best day, right now, unless this is somehow going to be a better me/day. And I cannot expect that I be given a hand-out, just because of my skin color, or whatever, because of what someone else tells someone else - the hirer - to do. I can expect that if I am in charge of my own business, then I want to be able to choose my workers. I would want to treat them as fairly as possible, and I would not simply not hire a black person because they're a black person, in this day in age, but, who is it that is going to bring about 'racial equality'? Is it up to me to see the "need", to treat them and their identity like they're some charity case, to give a black man the position even though he's slightly less qualified than this white man here? Do we need laws to make sure that business owners, etc. do this? Hire more blacks? And if one thinks we need that - that this is a need - then this expresses a much greater problem.
With reparations, I have considered the only true/real reparations can really only begin, with separation. Because when will it end? This generation - the next? What will those consist of? Making New Hampshire less white? Certainly that's part of it. How would you like to be targeted for extinction (because what's the true end, other than dissolution of this... identity)?
I get having compassion and I get being considerate of others and their experiences: Fuck, that's how I was brought up. I was never overtly "racist" toward black people and in-fact count many among the good people in my life to be Black. On the scale of Critical Race Theorists, so-called, some of the prominent ones, I am a White Supremacist, for my certain natural preferences and orientations- That I like blond women and children better than I like black ones (natural tendency, what I want, not to say I hate the black ones), that I care first/most for those with my likeness, they give me no other choice, in their framework- In their framework I am either White Supremacist or White Betrayer, the scale between, and I choose SUPREMACIST.
It allows me to stand my ground. Otherwise, they're just trying to bring us to heel. To control us.
I have a back-bone. You, and government, will not tell me what to think. I am the government.
Really- Again who and what is going to really bring about any form of equality? Fat equality? Am I going to be attacked for my dating choices now? White people are, that, too, you know. But we all discriminate. Am I no longer allowed to have my preferences? Maybe I just like this white dude better than this black dude that interviewed? Maybe I trust him more? Maybe, looking out for myself, it's better to?
That's again what I come to. What is best for ourselves? Is is really good for people who happen to be identified as "white people" now to have their countries inundated with 'others' (not of their identity, who won't vote for the same people, who will vote for people who look like them and think and believe like them), who are also looking out for what is best for themselves, their desperate, grabbing hands (all they can, all for themselves, after-all). What happens every time these immigrants pour in, is resources, from "us", get diverted, to them (some of the most far left don't believe white Poles should even stay a majority in Poland, when it comes down to it - that the lives of all the browns pouring in to Europe, that may inevitably be there, too, saving them, should supersede them and their rights to life, to autonomy). It's not always without reciprocation...
Now, do I think they're worthless people - outsiders... bad, evil, undeserving of love... no (and I don't target/blame them off the start, for any of it, really, other than perhaps being guilty of the same sin as everyone else...). But is this a loving situation? Is it promoting of love? Or does it just demand it - is it a shakedown of resources in some way? It demands from whites, but not others, the same. Asians get to share some of the burden of whites, though. Anyone that is able to blend in with whites will share that burden. It's really a sick, mentally sick, situation. White exists, as will black. Even if we can come up with a different name. Someone calling it a social construct doesn't do anything. Your house is just a construct and I doubt many of you (individual humans, for a lot of part) can reproduce it better than a shack...
Again, I dance around and talk too much, but just how do you create something called "racial equality"? I hear the term so often. I am not going to be equal to the other guy. When is my race going to be looked at as a permanent charity case, to where I'll get the position, even if I'm mediocre? When will the Supermodel from Australia about to turn 18 choose me as her lover? Resources, wealth, is not distributed equally, and can never be. And some entire peoples have more wealth than others, by simply belonging to those people/ that identity. Is someone going to force 17 year old Australian Supermodel to date black guy because he's black? There's certainly the pressure to.
Edit/attempt-for-Clarity: What state of "repair" do any of us come from, anyway? To speak of a word of "reparation", what exactly is the state that we want to be repaired to? Is it even possible? Black men right now like white women more than white men like black women. There are many more things "unequal" about how things fall, between us. Was there ever a "state" where we were at all equal? Would white people have even - as if many even had a hand in it in the first place, even back then/when - gone out of their way to make their societies "more diverse", to out and find black people, others, to "make them a part of their community", or, was that itself born of a state of disrepair? And these black people, were they even a people, before they were sold by other black people to others, including Jews, Muslims, and Whites (even if a bit of a mongrel Orc breed, they're still "Whites"), and grouped as such away/separate from the ruling caste(s)? Or were they people that would fucking cut their 10 mile neighbor's head off for worshipping the wrong devil to perform some dumb blood ritual on it? They were peoples. Not really that well organized, tribal units, that warred with themselves, too, just like us. Along with us "sidetracking" them, or arresting their "development" 'we' probably also arrested 100,000,000 genocides.
So again what is the state of "repair"? Was it ever a state of "repair" when we were forced to live together? Again, I come back to this: I don't mean to say they're evil or guilty or that I hate them for being different. I mean to say we're different, and we never fell from "grace", with them. And they too ransacked our shores... these 'others': round and round. So again, what is the "state of repair"? What exactly ARE reparations? Are they really in ANY place to make demands? I'd say, only because we let them... We've been battered mentally (not to blame anyone, but I wouldn't absolutely doubt the possibility that some conscious hands were in it, but I'd say a lot of it is simple, natural process and consciousness as it would come, naturally, which can be awkward...).
Not to say a baby's cries shouldn't be heard.. Not to say I mean to say it can't be helped. But not like this (to be led by a child on a tantrum). Not like the far left is pushing it, now. When, together, have different peoples (even if we, or something 'othered' them, did doing that really begin with us, or can it be seen as like, well, "how's the weather?" - as like any other natural system) ever been in a state that was "whole, perfect", together, when we are different? Is it fair for us to expect unrealistic things? Is that any path forward? Who is leading, to where? What?
So again, realistically, I come to that we need to draw a border between us. They need a territory, and perhaps with this, some one-time "buy-off"- That might be the only thing that can be expected (not to say we can't help the "neighbor", in the right ways, if we can - hopefully if we needed help, they would, sometime in this "repaired" future, where we might "repair"), because we won't be slaves ("communism"... but we are, slaves, already?), and the alternative is War. So do we - need a territory, space, for us, to be (us). Or we need a king.
The single-greatest thing I think we could do is fix this stupid drug war. That is one thing that CAN BE DONE that is good for everyone, and doesn't mean "redistribution of wealth" as if most white families are not working for what they've got, that might allow wealth to redistribute itself in the way that it can be.
This brings me to another thought, this idea of "racial equality". Just how do we achieve or accomplish that? White people aren't equal to other white people. I'm not even equal to myself on my best day, right now, unless this is somehow going to be a better me/day. And I cannot expect that I be given a hand-out, just because of my skin color, or whatever, because of what someone else tells someone else - the hirer - to do. I can expect that if I am in charge of my own business, then I want to be able to choose my workers. I would want to treat them as fairly as possible, and I would not simply not hire a black person because they're a black person, in this day in age, but, who is it that is going to bring about 'racial equality'? Is it up to me to see the "need", to treat them and their identity like they're some charity case, to give a black man the position even though he's slightly less qualified than this white man here? Do we need laws to make sure that business owners, etc. do this? Hire more blacks? And if one thinks we need that - that this is a need - then this expresses a much greater problem.
With reparations, I have considered the only true/real reparations can really only begin, with separation. Because when will it end? This generation - the next? What will those consist of? Making New Hampshire less white? Certainly that's part of it. How would you like to be targeted for extinction (because what's the true end, other than dissolution of this... identity)?
I get having compassion and I get being considerate of others and their experiences: Fuck, that's how I was brought up. I was never overtly "racist" toward black people and in-fact count many among the good people in my life to be Black. On the scale of Critical Race Theorists, so-called, some of the prominent ones, I am a White Supremacist, for my certain natural preferences and orientations- That I like blond women and children better than I like black ones (natural tendency, what I want, not to say I hate the black ones), that I care first/most for those with my likeness, they give me no other choice, in their framework- In their framework I am either White Supremacist or White Betrayer, the scale between, and I choose SUPREMACIST.
It allows me to stand my ground. Otherwise, they're just trying to bring us to heel. To control us.
I have a back-bone. You, and government, will not tell me what to think. I am the government.
Really- Again who and what is going to really bring about any form of equality? Fat equality? Am I going to be attacked for my dating choices now? White people are, that, too, you know. But we all discriminate. Am I no longer allowed to have my preferences? Maybe I just like this white dude better than this black dude that interviewed? Maybe I trust him more? Maybe, looking out for myself, it's better to?
That's again what I come to. What is best for ourselves? Is is really good for people who happen to be identified as "white people" now to have their countries inundated with 'others' (not of their identity, who won't vote for the same people, who will vote for people who look like them and think and believe like them), who are also looking out for what is best for themselves, their desperate, grabbing hands (all they can, all for themselves, after-all). What happens every time these immigrants pour in, is resources, from "us", get diverted, to them (some of the most far left don't believe white Poles should even stay a majority in Poland, when it comes down to it - that the lives of all the browns pouring in to Europe, that may inevitably be there, too, saving them, should supersede them and their rights to life, to autonomy). It's not always without reciprocation...
Now, do I think they're worthless people - outsiders... bad, evil, undeserving of love... no (and I don't target/blame them off the start, for any of it, really, other than perhaps being guilty of the same sin as everyone else...). But is this a loving situation? Is it promoting of love? Or does it just demand it - is it a shakedown of resources in some way? It demands from whites, but not others, the same. Asians get to share some of the burden of whites, though. Anyone that is able to blend in with whites will share that burden. It's really a sick, mentally sick, situation. White exists, as will black. Even if we can come up with a different name. Someone calling it a social construct doesn't do anything. Your house is just a construct and I doubt many of you (individual humans, for a lot of part) can reproduce it better than a shack...
Again, I dance around and talk too much, but just how do you create something called "racial equality"? I hear the term so often. I am not going to be equal to the other guy. When is my race going to be looked at as a permanent charity case, to where I'll get the position, even if I'm mediocre? When will the Supermodel from Australia about to turn 18 choose me as her lover? Resources, wealth, is not distributed equally, and can never be. And some entire peoples have more wealth than others, by simply belonging to those people/ that identity. Is someone going to force 17 year old Australian Supermodel to date black guy because he's black? There's certainly the pressure to.
Edit/attempt-for-Clarity: What state of "repair" do any of us come from, anyway? To speak of a word of "reparation", what exactly is the state that we want to be repaired to? Is it even possible? Black men right now like white women more than white men like black women. There are many more things "unequal" about how things fall, between us. Was there ever a "state" where we were at all equal? Would white people have even - as if many even had a hand in it in the first place, even back then/when - gone out of their way to make their societies "more diverse", to out and find black people, others, to "make them a part of their community", or, was that itself born of a state of disrepair? And these black people, were they even a people, before they were sold by other black people to others, including Jews, Muslims, and Whites (even if a bit of a mongrel Orc breed, they're still "Whites"), and grouped as such away/separate from the ruling caste(s)? Or were they people that would fucking cut their 10 mile neighbor's head off for worshipping the wrong devil to perform some dumb blood ritual on it? They were peoples. Not really that well organized, tribal units, that warred with themselves, too, just like us. Along with us "sidetracking" them, or arresting their "development" 'we' probably also arrested 100,000,000 genocides.
So again what is the state of "repair"? Was it ever a state of "repair" when we were forced to live together? Again, I come back to this: I don't mean to say they're evil or guilty or that I hate them for being different. I mean to say we're different, and we never fell from "grace", with them. And they too ransacked our shores... these 'others': round and round. So again, what is the "state of repair"? What exactly ARE reparations? Are they really in ANY place to make demands? I'd say, only because we let them... We've been battered mentally (not to blame anyone, but I wouldn't absolutely doubt the possibility that some conscious hands were in it, but I'd say a lot of it is simple, natural process and consciousness as it would come, naturally, which can be awkward...).
Not to say a baby's cries shouldn't be heard.. Not to say I mean to say it can't be helped. But not like this (to be led by a child on a tantrum). Not like the far left is pushing it, now. When, together, have different peoples (even if we, or something 'othered' them, did doing that really begin with us, or can it be seen as like, well, "how's the weather?" - as like any other natural system) ever been in a state that was "whole, perfect", together, when we are different? Is it fair for us to expect unrealistic things? Is that any path forward? Who is leading, to where? What?
So again, realistically, I come to that we need to draw a border between us. They need a territory, and perhaps with this, some one-time "buy-off"- That might be the only thing that can be expected (not to say we can't help the "neighbor", in the right ways, if we can - hopefully if we needed help, they would, sometime in this "repaired" future, where we might "repair"), because we won't be slaves ("communism"... but we are, slaves, already?), and the alternative is War. So do we - need a territory, space, for us, to be (us). Or we need a king.
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Burnt Offerings
Bluelight Crew
What 23, I've read enough of your posts on here to know where you are politically-speaking, so I know that what I'm about to say won't change your mind. But racial equality is an aspirational thing...it's not something that will ever be fully realized or executed to completion in a way where everyone is completely equal, but that doesn't make it any less valuable as a goal to be worked towards.
It's especially difficult to accomplish since "race" is primarily a sociological concept in this country (as anyone who has even the faintest knowledge of physical anthropology or race history knows, with all those old books which claimed to prove "scientifically" that the Irish or Italians or whoever were really a separate racial group than the "Anglo-Saxons"). Now a group like the Irish is just considered to be "white". So that's the social science context for "race"; as far as the natural sciences go, every person on earth is the same race, a group of hominids who left Africa less than a hundred thousand years ago. The genetic make-up of any given person is incredibly similar to any other person.
So it's difficult to make progress on something defined by loose definitions like race, as well as the 400 years or so of troubled history regarding race in America. The last major civil rights violation (the "war on drugs") happened during my lifetime, and is still ongoing...my parent's generation had to go up against an apartheid state in the American South...it's an on-going process, fighting for civil rights and a more free society...it's not just a linear march of improvement, there are victories and set-backs...but I'm not one to write off any hope for progress on this issue, nor do I find it helpful to scapegoat immigrants for the purposes of furthering opportunistic right-wing narratives.
It's especially difficult to accomplish since "race" is primarily a sociological concept in this country (as anyone who has even the faintest knowledge of physical anthropology or race history knows, with all those old books which claimed to prove "scientifically" that the Irish or Italians or whoever were really a separate racial group than the "Anglo-Saxons"). Now a group like the Irish is just considered to be "white". So that's the social science context for "race"; as far as the natural sciences go, every person on earth is the same race, a group of hominids who left Africa less than a hundred thousand years ago. The genetic make-up of any given person is incredibly similar to any other person.
So it's difficult to make progress on something defined by loose definitions like race, as well as the 400 years or so of troubled history regarding race in America. The last major civil rights violation (the "war on drugs") happened during my lifetime, and is still ongoing...my parent's generation had to go up against an apartheid state in the American South...it's an on-going process, fighting for civil rights and a more free society...it's not just a linear march of improvement, there are victories and set-backs...but I'm not one to write off any hope for progress on this issue, nor do I find it helpful to scapegoat immigrants for the purposes of furthering opportunistic right-wing narratives.
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- 25,614
That's quite a roundabout way to say "I'm a White Supremacist."If cops have any type of processing in them that can be considered "racially oriented", pertaining to perhaps threat assessments or whatever, then this makes sense. Cops are 18 times more likely to meet their ends when dealing with black males, than an unarmed black male is to meet their ends with them. Police are basically just normally in a state of DICK, and DEMON, and that doesn't bode well for people doing things they're afraid of getting caught for. And those people just don't really deal with it well..
The single-greatest thing I think we could do is fix this stupid drug war. That is one thing that CAN BE DONE that is good for everyone, and doesn't mean "redistribution of wealth" as if most white families are not working for what they've got, that might allow wealth to redistribute itself in the way that it can be.
This brings me to another thought, this idea of "racial equality". Just how do we achieve or accomplish that? White people aren't equal to other white people. I'm not even equal to myself on my best day, right now, unless this is somehow going to be a better me/day. And I cannot expect that I be given a hand-out, just because of my skin color, or whatever, because of what someone else tells someone else - the hirer - to do. I can expect that if I am in charge of my own business, then I want to be able to choose my workers. I would want to treat them as fairly as possible, and I would not simply not hire a black person because they're a black person, in this day in age, but, who is it that is going to bring about 'racial equality'? Is it up to me to see the "need", to treat them and their identity like they're some charity case, to give a black man the position even though he's slightly less qualified than this white man here? Do we need laws to make sure that business owners, etc. do this? Hire more blacks? And if one thinks we need that - that this is a need - then this expresses a much greater problem.
With reparations, I have considered the only true/real reparations can really only begin, with separation. Because when will it end? This generation - the next? What will those consist of? Making New Hampshire less white? Certainly that's part of it. How would you like to be targeted for extinction (because what's the true end, other than dissolution of this... identity)?
I get having compassion and I get being considerate of others and their experiences: Fuck, that's how I was brought up. I was never overtly "racist" toward black people and in-fact count many among the good people in my life to be Black. On the scale of Critical Race Theorists, so-called, some of the prominent ones, I am a White Supremacist, for my certain natural preferences and orientations- That I like blond women and children better than I like black ones (natural tendency, what I want, not to say I hate the black ones), that I care first/most for those with my likeness, they give me no other choice, in their framework- In their framework I am either White Supremacist or White Betrayer, the scale between, and I choose SUPREMACIST.
It allows me to stand my ground. Otherwise, they're just trying to bring us to heel. To control us.
I have a back-bone. You, and government, will not tell me what to think. I am the fucking government!
Really- Again who and what is going to really bring about any form of equality? Fat equality? Am I going to be attacked for my dating choices now? White people are, that, too, you know. But we all discriminate. Am I no longer allowed to have my preferences? Maybe I just like this white dude better than this black dude that interviewed? Maybe I trust him more? Maybe, looking out for myself, it's better to?
That's again what I come to. What is best for ourselves? Is is really good for people who happen to be identified as "white people" now to have their countries inundated with 'others' (not of their identity, who won't vote for the same people, who will vote for people who look like them and think and believe like them), who are also looking out for what is best for themselves, their desperate, grabbing hands (all they can, all for themselves, after-all). What happens every time these immigrants pour in, is resources, from us, get diverted, to them (some of the most far left don't believe white Poles should even stay a majority in Poland, when it comes down to it - that the lives of all the browns pouring in to Europe, that may inevitably be there, too, saving them, should supersede them and their rights to life, to autonomy).
Now, do I think they're worthless people - outsiders... bad, evil, undeserving of love... no (and I don't target/blame them off the start, for any of it, really, other than perhaps being guilty of the same sin as everyone else...). But is this a loving situation? Is it promoting of love? Or does it just demand it - is it a shakedown of resources in some way? It demands from whites, but not others, the same. Asians get to share some of the burden of whites, though. Anyone that is able to blend in with whites will share that burden. It's really a sick, mentally sick, situation. White exists, as will black. Even if we can come up with a different name. Someone calling it a social construct doesn't do anything. Your house is just a construct and I doubt many of you can reproduce it better than a shack...
Again, I dance around and talk too much, but just how do you create something called "racial equality"? I hear the term so often. I am not going to be equal to the other guy. When is my race going to be looked at as a permanent charity case, to where I'll get the position, even if I'm mediocre? When will the Supermodel from Australia about to turn 18 choose me as her lover? Resources, wealth, is not distributed equally, and can never be. And some entire peoples have more wealth than others, by simply belonging to those people/ that identity. Is someone going to force 17 year old Australian Supermodel to date black guy because he's black? There's certainly the pressure to.
Edit/attempt-for-Clarity: What state of "repair" do any of us come from, anyway? To speak of a word of "reparation", what exactly is the state that we want to be repaired to? Is it even possible? Black men right now like white women more than white men like black women. There are many more things "unequal" about how things fall, between us. Was there ever a "state" where we were at all equal? Would white people have even - as if many even had a hand in it in the first place, even back then/when - gone out of their way to make their societies "more diverse", to out and find black people, others, to "make them a part of their community", or, was that itself born of a state of disrepair? And these black people, were they even a people, before they were sold by other black people to others, including Jews, Muslims, and Whites (even if a bit of a mongrel Orc breed, they're still "Whites"), and grouped as such away/separate from the ruling caste(s)? Or were they people that would fucking cut their 10 mile neighbor's head off for worshipping the wrong devil to perform some dumb blood ritual on it? They were peoples. Not really that well organized, tribal units, that warred with themselves, too, just like us. Along with us "sidetracking" them, or arresting their "development" we probably also sidetracked/arrested 100,000,000 genocides.
So again what is the state of "repair"? Was it ever a state of "repair" when we were forced to live together? Again, I come back to this: I don't mean to say they're evil or guilty or that I hate them for being different. I mean to say we're different, and we never fell from "grace", with them. And they too ransacked our shores... these 'others': round and round. So again, what is the "state of repair"? What exactly ARE reparations? Are they really in ANY place to make demands? I'd say, only because we let them... We've been battered mentally (not to blame anyone, but I wouldn't absolutely doubt the possibility that some conscious hands were in it, but I'd say a lot of it is simple, natural process and consciousness as it would come, naturally, which can be awkward...).
Not to say a baby's cries shouldn't be heard.. Not to say I mean to say it can't be helped. But not like this (to be led by a child on a tantrum). Not like the far left is pushing it, now. When, together, have different peoples (even if we 'othered' them, did doing that really begin with us, or can it be seen as like, well, "how's the weather?" - as like any other natural system) ever been in a state that was "whole, perfect", together, when we are different? Is it fair for us to expect unrealistic expectations? Is that any path forward? Who is leading, to where? What?
So again, realistically, I come to that we need to draw a border between us. They need a territory, and perhaps with this, some one-time "buy-off"- That might be the only thing that can be expected (not to say we can't help the "neighbor", in the right ways, if we can - hopefully if we needed help, they would, sometime in this "repaired" future, where we might "repair"), because we won't be slaves ("communism"... but we are, slaves, already?), and the alternative is War. So do we - need a territory, space, for us, to be (us). Or we need a king.
cduggles
Bluelight Crew
Interesting. I found it more long winded than roundabout.