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N&PD Moderators: Skorpio | someguyontheinternet
Biotransformation of Tryptamine Derivitives in Mycelial Cultures of Psilocybe cuben.
- Thread starter yaesutom
- Start date
fastandbulbous
Bluelight Crew
I wonder how well this would work for the larger N,N-dialkyltryptamine groups? If the propyl/isopropyl/allyl groups were acceptable, it should be possible to get fairly high yeilds of miprocin from MiPT, iprocin from DiPT and 4-hydroxy-N,N-diallyltryptamine from DALT (and the relatively unknown 4-hydroxy DPT by starting with DPT).
The last one is quite interesting considering Shulgin's theory that 4-hydroxy DALT could possibly be the fastest onset and shortest acting oral psychedelic. I can't remember what the methylating substrate is in psilocin/psilocybin biosynthesis, but as long as the route of tryptophan -> tryptamine -> 4-hydroxytryptamine doesn't contain the rate limiting enzyme step, it should be possible to force the yeild of alkaloids to a much higher level by just starting with tryptophan or tryptamine.
The last one is quite interesting considering Shulgin's theory that 4-hydroxy DALT could possibly be the fastest onset and shortest acting oral psychedelic. I can't remember what the methylating substrate is in psilocin/psilocybin biosynthesis, but as long as the route of tryptophan -> tryptamine -> 4-hydroxytryptamine doesn't contain the rate limiting enzyme step, it should be possible to force the yeild of alkaloids to a much higher level by just starting with tryptophan or tryptamine.
Yeah i've heard of "DiPT'ed" shrooms being made before and sold but haven't seen anything posted about it until the recent trip report on bluelight,
http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=215910&r=4
Now I wonder how much psilocin/cybin is in there mixed with the 4-ho-det etc? Would you always get a mix I wonder, or would you have to separate only the wanted 4-hydroxylated version out (or phosphate ester also).
Also I wonder If the addition of AMT would result in 4-HO/PO-AMT, i'd guess it would methylate some of that to 4-HO/PO-DMT also maybe not much though.
I'd expect adding MiPT to get 4-HO-MiPT out, even if the psilocin/cybin was isolated out, there would be a little bit of 4-phosphoryloxy-MiPT in there too, and since 4-AcO-MiPT and its hydroxy version have quite different action (similar but, definite big differences especially with that one) eating a mix of 4-ho/po-mipt would have a different flavour/experience.
Also, I wonder if the addition of phosphoric acid (I read somewhere ph 4 is still fine), or something like calcium phosphate (or any phosphate salt that the mycellium would likely use) would increase psilocybin (or whatever phosphate ester) production?
... then all of this makes me curious about what other acid's you could stick on the 4 position? If we're talking about 4-whatever-MiPT here, since HO and AcO are quite different, I wonder what other things you could tag on to the 4 position besides an acetoxy etc - i guess we could know that but maybe not the difference in effects until we actually ate some, but interesting stuff..
fastandbulbous
Bluelight Crew
Wouldn't bet on AMT acting as a substrate - the alpha methyl group might not fit into the active site of the enzyme (alpha-methyl xxx, when derived from an amino acid tend to inhibit enzymes that normally deal with the decarboxylated amino acid). It might as well though, but if I had to bet, I'd bet on it not being a substrate or being an inhibitor