Opioids Big and Dandy Loperamide Adddiction Thread

[ksflorida99]

Sorry, I didn't notice

You didn't answer my previous question.

Are you on Suboxone treatment for Loperamide-addiction?
hm.. or do you got another opioid dependence history before the "loperamide addiction period" ?

No, noone but a few people know about the loperamide. I tell providers, hydro, percs, etc. it is just easier. In 2003, I was on methadone and kicked at home alone w/out any comfort meds. After about 2 months clean, I was scheduled to go back to work. I panicked and got 120 hydr 10's from my Dr. It was that "detox" that I was searching the web for info, support, etc. and came across the blog where I learned that loperamide was being researched in the 70's (?) for pain relief, and developers noticed this greater than other opiate ability to bind (or reduce diarreha). That was the first time I ever used it. Historically, my use is based on relapsing on Rx and then to prevent w/d pick up loperamide.

 

[ksflorida99]

No & Thanks

Loperamide is an opioid. It binds to mu receptors in the gut. Risk of dependance is very real, and written on the side of the box on every package of Immodium and generics. There is no reason a physician wouldn't believe you.

Do you consume other substances like GFJ, Quinine, Quinidine, etc based on what you read regarding P-GP ? Some people take it very far with Loperamide.


I don't do or ever have done anything about this P-GP ?? (except take ALOT). Nothing fancy, just took them and they worked and like a good addict, tried more. Great advice, really, thanks. Actually, my goal - after 3 tx's in 3 years - had finally become maintenance. I'd heard good things about suboxone and figured it would work, and just stay on that, perhaps gradually medically detox outpatient down the road. So I got to the beginning of w/d from loperamide (the subox folks thinks it's rx opiates) and started taking the subox. It relieved my physical symptoms, but I still felt wicked cloudy mentally. I stopped the subox and went back to loperamide, and I want to try again this time going longer between the 2 medicines - and perhaps increasing the subox. Here's the caveat. The subox folks think I'm on it (no positive urines). So all this is done - again - on my own. Yeah right, my best thinking got me here..........

 

[ashla]

addiction is such a personal problem, for anyone who thinks this girl should not be on suboxone honestly its none of your business, she had said she was addicted also to her pain medication and many people get on suboxone for that reason, if you think your addiction is bigger etc well thats your belief, i personally wouldnt have suggested at first suboxone but if she cant stay clean and ends up going back to her pain killers that is up to her to decide as well as her doctors, i am sorry i just get mad at people who like to compare there addiction with someone else's. maybe if suboxone was out yrs ago when i first started getting addicted to medication i might have not continued on and stayed in the life style i did, from my understanding suboxone was also created to help people with pain medication addictions not just people who use heroin,

to you ksflorida the only thing i would advise you now is not to go to high on your suboxone and get the help you need, goodluck if you need someone to talk to i am here
ashla

 

[manic_panic]

hmm

If you have nothing valuable to add to the thread, than please dont post. There are more constructive ways to get your point across... Consider this a warning. (unknown)​

 

[Captain.Heroin]

It's understandable why you'd want to get on maintenance, however, if you have a problem with loperamide, do you think quitting methadone or buprenorphine is going to be any easier?

 

[Tchort]

I have serious problems with people who have a percieved addiction getting on suboxone or methadone. Esp. to Loperamide. A taper might work, I wouldn't be against that. But after 10 years of a pretty hardcore addiction, I'm jaded to the fact that everyone's hopping on maintenance for every little thing.

Because it is proven to be the most effective, reliable, comfortable and beneficial treatment for opioid dependancy and addiction.

I don't do or ever have done anything about this P-GP ?? (except take ALOT). Nothing fancy, just took them and they worked and like a good addict, tried more. Great advice, really, thanks. Actually, my goal - after 3 tx's in 3 years - had finally become maintenance. I'd heard good things about suboxone and figured it would work, and just stay on that, perhaps gradually medically detox outpatient down the road. So I got to the beginning of w/d from loperamide (the subox folks thinks it's rx opiates) and started taking the subox. It relieved my physical symptoms, but I still felt wicked cloudy mentally. I stopped the subox and went back to loperamide, and I want to try again this time going longer between the 2 medicines - and perhaps increasing the subox. Here's the caveat. The subox folks think I'm on it (no positive urines). So all this is done - again - on my own. Yeah right, my best thinking got me here..........

What is your daily Buprenorphine dose? A dose adjustment could certainly be something to consider.

P-Glycoprotein (P-GP) removes any Loperamide that does cross the BBB (brain blood barrier). Some people try to take high doses and multiple combinations of various drugs to inhibit P-GP function to potentiate Loperamide. Though this isn't effective, as barely any Loperamide crosses the BBB to begin with: so inhibiting P-GP and letting it stay in the brain/blood isn't going to make a difference on how it feels sans placebo.

I asked because this would effect treatment options and could pose a safety/health hazard.

 

[ksflorida99]

Thanks Tchort,
My dose (though I don't take both at the same time obviously) is 8mg daily.

I guess my plan is to hope that the subox works well enough to stay off the loper until I'm comfortable. Then I can use a proven protocol to taper off the subox. I don't know, some days I fear I will have to live like this forever.......

I was going to respond to StaffWriter who apparently has a problem with my "perc[ie]ved addiction". I wouldn't wish this withdrawal on anyone, but how dare he/she judge me without any knowledge of any kind about what I might possibly be going thru.

 

[ksflorida99]

Yes,

@ksflorida99: Do you get ANY euphoria at all when you pop lets say 150 pills of loperamide?

absolutely. and pain relief also.

 

[mr.dopeman]

^ Be careful the kind of stuff you advise. Someone taking 150 loperamide pills chasing euphoria is pretty dangerous. (and stupid IMO)

 

[WSB15]

I don't want to freak you out or anything, but there was a guy on here like 4 years ago, and he had been taking loperamide at high doses and developed problems with his appendix (or some organ). Its quite possible that loperamide had absolutely nothing to do with his appendix, but he seemed convinced that it was the cause for some reason. You might want to search for that post.

 

[StaffWriter]

^^Was it Malfunkshun by any chance?? What a mess.

I was going to respond to StaffWriter who apparently has a problem with my "perc[ie]ved addiction". I wouldn't wish this withdrawal on anyone, but how dare he/she judge me without any knowledge of any kind about what I might possibly be going thru.

Florida....I think I have a pretty good idea what it's like to go through opiate withdrawal, since I have been an addict for over a decade, going through withdrawal 4-5 times a month during this time. So there goes your argument that 'I have no knowledge of what your going through' comment. I do and it sucks. What I don't understand is why you feel compelled to take something that does not cross the BBB (which means it does not bind with mu receptors in the brain, causing euphoria or at least not nearly as well as traditional opiates). I don't understand someone craving Lopermide, which its mode of action being mainly in the intestines.
Obviously, you have a problem with the comments that were made by me previously and I apologize if you were offended. I understand the withdrawal part (I'm assuming it's like a traditional opiate???) but what I can't wrap my brain around is its psychological grip it has on you. Can you describe what the high feels like and how bad the cravings are? Just curious. I want to understand this. The only thing I fear is that people with very minor addiction/withdrawal problems (and I'm NOT saying yours are minor because I don't know) are going to get onto maintenance therapy, end up abusing it or screwing up something that has been such a lifesaver to me. So accept my apology for thinking you're a troll and answer my questions instead of copy-editing my posts.

 

[rainbowdemon]

My son in-law is trying to kick methadone. Would this actually help him? He's one of those whiny under 30 types that can't/won't tolerate even the slightest discomfort!!

 

[robatussin]

I have kicked heroin, suboxone, nd other addictions, I have also taken upwards of a 200 mg dose of loperamide during one of the interesting threads about it. I was just doing a test, and I was suprised to find i could shit like normal even after a phenominal dose. Suboxone blocks me up way worse. I have used it for certain withdrawls (of the opiate nature) and it helps strictly with physical effects nd minimally at that.

OP If this is really serious, you should quit, deal with the pain of not havig immodium (can be hard cause it is otc), but it will be the easiest opiate to come off of and keopectate (sp?) can help with any intestinal problems. switching to bupe or anything else will only end in stronger addiction.

 

[StaffWriter]

^^Yeah, trading in a Lopermide addiction for a suboxone addiction sounds like someone is going the wrong direction. I'm having a hard time believing this, but some of the brains of BL like Tchort are saying this is entirely possible. So will we hear back from the OP? I wanna know from him, not that halfwit who made that Lopermide thread a couple of years back.

 

[Tchort]

^^Yeah, trading in a Lopermide addiction for a suboxone addiction sounds like someone is going the wrong direction. I'm having a hard time believing this, but some of the brains of BL like Tchort are saying this is entirely possible. So will we hear back from the OP? I wanna know from him, not that halfwit who made that Lopermide thread a couple of years back.

On a side note (and to bump this thread for Op response, I'm wondering the same things you are) it has been proven that given the right circumstances/tools Loperamide can/does act like a typical high potency full agonist opioid ( http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9098875?dopt=Citation )

My guess as to how this situation with the Op works:

A person is an opioid addict. Abuses large doses of Heroin/Oxycodone a day for a couple years. Tries to taper down and kick, starts the DIY detox with lots of Loperamide. Finds it works at stopping some (possibly most) of the physical symptoms. Continues taking large doses of Loperamide daily for a week or two. Acute withdrawal from the opioid of abuse is over with, however the continued use of Loperamide daily has left the "Morphine Metabolism"/opioid metabolic setup intact. Every time this person tries to stop taking Loperamide, traditional mu agonist withdrawal symptoms begin. All addicts, current and former, know that tolerance to dope sickness does not exist. If anything we become more uncomfortable and frustrated with it over time. Every time opioid withdrawal symptoms start, the person feels the same psychological compulsion to get relief as they did while still abusing strong euphoric opioids. Once the person takes a large dose of Loperamide, the withdrawal symptoms stop and a feeling of "euphoria" or 'pseudo-euphoria' takes over (again, a learned behavior from the time as an active addict. A shot after being sick is the best feeling shot of all). The pleasure of relief. Rinse/repeat.

Thats how I imagine it anyway.

 

[robatussin]

^^Yeah, trading in a Lopermide addiction for a suboxone addiction sounds like someone is going the wrong direction. I'm having a hard time believing this, but some of the brains of BL like Tchort are saying this is entirely possible. So will we hear back from the OP? I wanna know from him, not that halfwit who made that Lopermide thread a couple of years back.

Loper-a-mnd I believe it was. I actually learned a lot from that thread and found a wealth of info i didnt bother linking but it was a total troll and mybe this one is too. If I posted a thread like that I would at least check in on it and reply...

 

[Johnny blue]

On a side note (and to bump this thread for Op response, I'm wondering the same things you are) it has been proven that given the right circumstances/tools Loperamide can/does act like a typical high potency full agonist opioid ( http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9098875?dopt=Citation )

My guess as to how this situation with the Op works:

A person is an opioid addict. Abuses large doses of Heroin/Oxycodone a day for a couple years. Tries to taper down and kick, starts the DIY detox with lots of Loperamide. Finds it works at stopping some (possibly most) of the physical symptoms. Continues taking large doses of Loperamide daily for a week or two. Acute withdrawal from the opioid of abuse is over with, however the continued use of Loperamide daily has left the "Morphine Metabolism"/opioid metabolic setup intact. Every time this person tries to stop taking Loperamide, traditional mu agonist withdrawal symptoms begin. All addicts, current and former, know that tolerance to dope sickness does not exist. If anything we become more uncomfortable and frustrated with it over time. Every time opioid withdrawal symptoms start, the person feels the same psychological compulsion to get relief as they did while still abusing strong euphoric opioids. Once the person takes a large dose of Loperamide, the withdrawal symptoms stop and a feeling of "euphoria" or 'pseudo-euphoria' takes over (again, a learned behavior from the time as an active addict. A shot after being sick is the best feeling shot of all). The pleasure of relief. Rinse/repeat.

Thats how I imagine it anyway.

Makes sense to me. The vicious cycle continuing itself as it all too often does with a replacement opiate. Especially with the OP saying she expiriences euphoria and analgesia.

Ksflorida99, an OP is an original poster. A troll is someone that's sole purpose is to cause trouble on forums such as this by baiting people into arguments. You have by far proved you're not a troll, sorry.

 

[FlawedByDesign]

Not to sound stupid, but since this last weekend ive been going through horrible dilly w/d's and only had 3 of these pills, so fearing it wouldnt be enough to help, they went up my nose, and surprisingly didnt burn at all and seemed to help a tiny bit. I assume this would not help the BBB issue, but my question is since someone said the main action or w/e of this drug is in the intestines, was the relief i felt lessened since it did'nt pass through my stomach, or can these work in your nose? I know it sounds stupid, im not trying to get high, just trying to find the quickest way out of this hell

 

[StaffWriter]

On a side note (and to bump this thread for Op response, I'm wondering the same things you are) it has been proven that given the right circumstances/tools Loperamide can/does act like a typical high potency full agonist opioid ( http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9098875?dopt=Citation )

My guess as to how this situation with the Op works:

A person is an opioid addict. Abuses large doses of Heroin/Oxycodone a day for a couple years. Tries to taper down and kick, starts the DIY detox with lots of Loperamide. Finds it works at stopping some (possibly most) of the physical symptoms. Continues taking large doses of Loperamide daily for a week or two. Acute withdrawal from the opioid of abuse is over with, however the continued use of Loperamide daily has left the "Morphine Metabolism"/opioid metabolic setup intact. Every time this person tries to stop taking Loperamide, traditional mu agonist withdrawal symptoms begin. All addicts, current and former, know that tolerance to dope sickness does not exist. If anything we become more uncomfortable and frustrated with it over time. Every time opioid withdrawal symptoms start, the person feels the same psychological compulsion to get relief as they did while still abusing strong euphoric opioids. Once the person takes a large dose of Loperamide, the withdrawal symptoms stop and a feeling of "euphoria" or 'pseudo-euphoria' takes over (again, a learned behavior from the time as an active addict. A shot after being sick is the best feeling shot of all). The pleasure of relief. Rinse/repeat.

Thats how I imagine it anyway.

So basically you're telling me it (the lopermide) is just holding him. Makes sense. I thought he said he felt euphoria and that he was addicted to the shit because he enjoyed the feeling (even though he compared it to otc Methadone). I guess i just misunderstood. I really wasn't trying to put the OP down. I just found it kinda outrageous to hear someone say they got high off Immodium and needed Suboxone or Methadone to come off of it. Total misunderstanding on my part. To the OP, good luck with whatever you decide. Talk to a doctor or addiction specialist and make a plan on how to get yourself out of this mess.

 

[garuda]

Once the person takes a large dose of Loperamide, the withdrawal symptoms stop and a feeling of "euphoria" or 'pseudo-euphoria' takes over (again, a learned behavior from the time as an active addict. A shot after being sick is the best feeling shot of all). The pleasure of relief. Rinse/repeat.

Thats not all psychosomatic, its also physiological as all those empty receptors are instantly filled and agonized. Its the incredible rush people miss when they are on long half life drugs for daily maintenance.