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Misc Best drug to microdose for depression

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Man in the Dark said:
Wish it was true. Not for what some of us have been through. While I respect your post, I think you should consider how serious some people's conditions are. It might work for the rich college boys who are bored spending daddy's money, but not those who have been through the trenches.
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Rhun said:
I have to agree. I was born with fucked brain chemistry. I've always felt "wrong," even as a little girl before I had the words to describe it. I find it incredibly insulting when people tell me to cure my severe depression with diet and exercise. Do you think if it was that easy I wouldn't be out doing just that? My depression drove me to addiction. Ironically, discovering heroin saved me from ending my own life because it made me realize it was possible to feel normal. You wouldn't tell someone with cancer to take a damn walk and eat more vegetables.
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Then get on an SSRI, or TCA, and therapy instead of self medicating with drugs.
 
i would go with ketamine since is known to be useful in treatment resistant depression, also mdma could be useful since a friend of mine says a one time dose helps him a lot with depression and anxiety but i would say ketamine
 
PriestTheyCalledHim said:
Then get on an SSRI, or TCA, and therapy instead of self medicating with drugs.
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Whoa there. Some of those drugs (SSRIs, etc) don't help some people, and when someone self medicates and it resolves their issues (regardless of how temporary or fraught with diminished returns it may be) it should tell you something about the relationship between the underlying problem and the drugs efficacy against it.

This is just an extension of the social pressure of "all drugs are bad, and drug users are bad and doing something they shouldn't be". No, that's not true. And it retards advancements in pharmacology (do you have any idea how much better the field of psychiatry would be if they had allowed MDMA and LSD to be used in sessions where the patient has given informed consent, like psychiatrists haved asked for going on decades now?).

Everyone has a right to do what they think works for them. I get shakey when ppl use that as an excuse to discontinue regular medical treatments in lieu of crap like chiropractic and homeopathy, that's one thing.



But shaming someone for microdosing a drug to themselves because they find it helps them is counterproductive and uses the same logic the anti-drug interests use.

There is very little harm reduction in your argument (if someone wants to do the drug they will, saying don't do it isn't harm reduction).
 
PriestTheyCalledHim said:
Then get on an SSRI, or TCA, and therapy instead of self medicating with drugs.
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Aside from answering OP's question above, where did I advocate using illicit substances for the treatment of severe mental health issues? I haven't self medicated with anything for 2 years. I'm prescribed bupe for both depression and addiction. I'm also prescribed another medication for depression/anxiety but I haven't had the need to take it in a long time because I'm stable on bupe. In the words of my doctor, why take a second medication with another set of side effects when I can manage my depression with the medication I'm on. Of course that's not an option for someone who isn't already opioid dependent. But the only point I was trying to make is that as someone who has dealt with severe, chronic depression my entire life I can tell you that diet and lifestyle changes won't cure it. That doesn't mean those things aren't important, I just find it demeaning to those who suffer with real mental health issues to suggest that they'd be fine if they ate healthier.
 
Fuck that, I'll go a step or two further by saying I straight up ENDORSE the self-administration of ultra low dose bupe (50-100 micrograms for the opioid naive) to control depression.

Very little harm can possibly come out of such a small dose. There is harm reduction, and then there is its little cousin "extremely too cautious HR" which i equate with freaking out about razor blades in candy apples during Halloween.
 
Phil.McKeer said:
Fuck that, I'll go a step or two further by saying I straight up ENDORSE the self-administration of ultra low dose bupe (50-100 micrograms for the opioid naive) to control depression.

Very little harm can possibly come out of such a small dose. There is harm reduction, and then there is its little cousin "extremely too cautious HR" which i equate with freaking out about razor blades in candy apples during Halloween.
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The issue with that is physical dependence is likely at some point and someone with depression is especially vulnerable to addiction. If we're talking about someone already physically dependent I'm all for it. Ideally you'd just go through a doctor but I've seen many people buy bupe on the street and do well on it.
 
I should note that I have a degree in biology, I studied medicine, know a great deal about pharmacology, biochemistry, etc. And obviously the philosophy of science.

So I should point out that I think CBT (cognitive behavioral therapy) or SSRI/SNRI's can be effective (actually, CBT usually scores at the higher end for efficacious treatments of depression) and should probably be the first line of treatment (again, especially CBT which does not use any drugs).

But if that's not working, I don't think anyone should wait for big pharma to come out with a brand name formulation of bupe that they say is ok to take for treatment-resistant depression. I think we can make that choice for ourselves, not wait, and find the molecule the way we have at our disposal and go from there. Depression sucks and I don't want a black cloud over my head 24/7 and I know others who suffer it don't, either.

Just trying to clarify so no one thinks I'm a dick. I'm not trying to be a dick or to be confrontational with anyone. I just think that people who deserve relief should get it by any means necessary.

Edit: I also think information should be free and open and there isn't that much discussion on low dose bupe as an anti-depressant in the mainstream. It has been known among the pharma people and by people who have used it for a while, but yet not discussed as vigorously, as, say, exercise and diet are. It needs airtime. People need to know that a single 8mg Subutex tablet can resolve your depression for months (if dissolved in solution and taken 50-100ug at a time). That's some serious shit right there.
 
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An important question I'd like to ask - As there are different types of depression, is it one that effects your mental mood only, or does it affect you physically a lot? I've found that with depression as a mood disorder is helped with things like serotonin reuptake inhibitors whereas illnesses like mine (where my chronic depression brought about the development of ME), dopamine reuptake inhibitors work better.
 
Enlight Spurrett said:
An important question I'd like to ask - As there are different types of depression, is it one that effects your mental mood only, or does it affect you physically a lot? I've found that with depression as a mood disorder is helped with things like serotonin reuptake inhibitors whereas illnesses like mine (where my chronic depression brought about the development of ME), dopamine reuptake inhibitors work better.
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Oh yeah, bigtime. I'll let others who know more add to this, but depression for sure has multiple different criteria that get slightly different diagnoses (such as major depressive disorder vs. bipolar disorder, etc). And it definitely has a multitude of presentations (such as depression that is isolated in the mind only, or depression that also results in lethargy/lack of energy, a reduction in taking initiative to do things one would normally do otherwise, all the way to lower hormone production in the body, etc).

They don't always have the same etiology (cause) or prognoses (lines of treatment).

But there is always something you can do about it, and as you've read so far in this forum that ranges all the way from increasing exercise and adjusting diet, all the way to using illicit opioid drugs in nearly microscopic doses =)
 
That was really well put. Seeing as you have a degree in biology and have studied medicine, could I please send you a PM about something I need advice with?
 
Phil.McKeer said:
I should note that I have a degree in biology, I studied medicine, know a great deal about pharmacology, biochemistry, etc. And obviously the philosophy of science.

So I should point out that I think CBT (cognitive behavioral therapy) or SSRI/SNRI's can be effective (actually, CBT usually scores at the higher end for efficacious treatments of depression) and should probably be the first line of treatment (again, especially CBT which does not use any drugs).

But if that's not working, I don't think anyone should wait for big pharma to come out with a brand name formulation of bupe that they say is ok to take for treatment-resistant depression. I think we can make that choice for ourselves, not wait, and find the molecule the way we have at our disposal and go from there. Depression sucks and I don't want a black cloud over my head 24/7 and I know others who suffer it don't, either.

Just trying to clarify so no one thinks I'm a dick. I'm not trying to be a dick or to be confrontational with anyone. I just think that people who deserve relief should get it by any means necessary.

Edit: I also think information should be free and open and there isn't that much discussion on low dose bupe as an anti-depressant in the mainstream. It has been known among the pharma people and by people who have used it for a while, but yet not discussed as vigorously, as, say, exercise and diet are. It needs airtime. People need to know that a single 8mg Subutex tablet can resolve your depression for months (if dissolved in solution and taken 50-100ug at a time). That's some serious shit right there.
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I agree with this. I can only speak for myself, but the bottom line is that for me if I hadn't found opioids I would have killed myself. Life wasn't worth living, at least not like that. Better to be on bupe and live a functional life than be miserable and/or dead just so I can say I'm not on medication. What's the point? I also think medications that address serotonin don't work for everyone. They definitely haven't worked for me and I (as well as many doctors who have treated me) really believe it's an endorphin deficiency. Anyway, to summarize... ideally, one should go with the minimal approach that is still effective and of course the legally prescribed route whenever possible. But if something drastically improves your quality of life and is worth any potential consequences then go for it, absolutely.
 
rhun said:
...ideally, one should go with the minimal approach that is still effective and of course the legally prescribed route whenever possible. But if something drastically improves your quality of life and is worth any potential consequences then go for it, absolutely.
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Thank you rhun, that's basically exactly what I mean, paraphrased into two short sentences =)
 
Mayo clinic performed a study on psylocin (4-ho-dmt) as an antidepressant. It has awesome results, and am almost everyone in the study looked back at their trip with positivity .

I would recommend just tripping once or twice a month. It may stabilize serotonin levels after the fact. That said, I wouldn't discount the help you can get from doctors. I had to see about 7 different people before I finally found a doc that helped me with my probs and didn't just throw pills at me. But if you're absolutely desperate and won't see more doctors, this might be worth a shot. Tripping leaves you with a very real afterglow, and if you can proactively build on it, you might get to a place where you don't need anything : )

Good luck
 
Yeah but if you're in a bad state of mind and trip, you may be due for a bad trip. Or are we talking about sub-threshold doses?
 
IME trips are more about setting than anything else. Doing it with an experienced user whom you trust would probably be fine. But if you have reservations about it, it might not be a good idea.

That said, I only have experience with tryptamines. Can't speak to lsd or mescaline.
 
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