Benzodiazepines-Alternative medications

[smokeymcpot42088]

so, i can only reflect my own experience. i was burned in a fire, 3rd degree, developed major clinical PTSD, also have GAD, my own course through this shit has been long, and difficult. I tried for many years medicating with ethanol, benzos etc. --- my experience is that i could not really take enough of any GABA agent to siufficiently medicate my symptoms (let alone the fact that in the US at least, people are being thrown systemically off of long term benzo rxes. they are coming after them as they did opioids 8 years ago. My mom is currently in process of being thrown off a 30+ year benzo Rx, ive had to do support for countless people across the country dealin w that shit) - and in fact that attempting to medicate the symptoms of the anxiety both kept me from pursuing some other solutions, and made my anxiety worse and worse as the GABA PAM agents did progressive damage to my GABA systems.

I was terrified when i was ordered off the benzos as well. What I have found though, is that it truly was keeping me from reaching deeper resolution on the anxiety issues, and making them worse over time. Since then, althought the withdrawal was crippling, I am glad i got a long taper/was able to take care of it in a reasonable way instead of been thrown off without time to deal with the taper. I have found that workin w therapists that i could actually work with (took me like 12 people to find people ACTUALLY versed in severe anxiety and trauma recovery) - CBT, EMDR and a few other treatment modalities really helped me towards resolution. Ibogaine was integral in repairing the PTSD/TBI damage. but long story short - i found no relief long term in the GABA agents, and indeed now for my life, I can see how treating the symptoms of anxiety was not handling shit. I really had to find ways to address my underlying issues to find good relief.


Outside of that, modifying diet, really increasing exercise, and getting my GABA receptors healed is what actually helped. Also I have found non-damaging relief in kava kava and amanita (the muscimol specifically) if i need help and don't want to damage my brain further. Also propranolol I find AMAZING for dealing w the physical side of my anxiety. which really assists me in using actual coping tools for dealing w the mental part,

Either way, I know this is a super personal journey, and I hope you get some resolution fr.

^This is alot of truth. Personally I feel I need the benzos long term......but like Cdin says this is a super personal journey and most often it isn't the user that chooses to stop. What they are doing stateside is criminal. Straight malpractice. I have heard (from pretty reliable sources) that in the UK they are just embracing the FACT you have been on benzos for 15+ years, you are probably a lifer....and yea that probably means some doc messed up at some point; but not always! --- I find in the US almost almost 9 out of 10 people are somehow "self diagnosed" by which I mean they saw an add on TV and thought; well yea I wanna be happier, that looks great. Or oh crap I can't sleep I should look into that. Im depressed, i think? (Nah I think you just see straight; the world is umm slightly depressing IMHO).-- Advertising prescription meds is REALLY MESSED UP, you don't show up at the mechanic and tell him/her/w/e(else) what is wrong with your car. You know that you can usually bypass the 'mechanic'.

Comparing an MD to a mechanic is obviously reductive but I think the metaphor holds well enough. Docs in the states are not that well informed. Trust me if you show up and tell them you are taking say 30mg xanax a day they will laugh and say its not possible (unless your uber rich I suppose?). They will give you an SSRI real quick no matter what the issue IME; which should be OBVIOUSLY IRRESPONSIBLE.

 

[cdin]

^This is alot of truth. Personally I feel I need the benzos long term......but like Cdin says this is a super personal journey and most often it isn't the user that chooses to stop. What they are doing stateside is criminal. Straight malpractice. I have heard (from pretty reliable sources) that in the UK they are just embracing the FACT you have been on benzos for 15+ years, you are probably a lifer....and yea that probably means some doc messed up at some point; but not always! --- I find in the US almost almost 9 out of 10 people are somehow "self diagnosed" by which I mean they saw an add on TV and thought; well yea I wanna be happier, that looks great. Or oh crap I can't sleep I should look into that. Im depressed, i think? (Nah I think you just see straight; the world is umm slightly depressing IMHO).-- Advertising prescription meds is REALLY MESSED UP, you don't show up at the mechanic and tell him/her/w/e(else) what is wrong with your car. You know that you can usually bypass the 'mechanic'.

Comparing an MD to a mechanic is obviously reductive but I think the metaphor holds well enough. Docs in the states are not that well informed. Trust me if you show up and tell them you are taking say 30mg xanax a day they will laugh and say its not possible (unless your uber rich I suppose?). They will give you an SSRI real quick no matter what the issue IME; which should be OBVIOUSLY IRRESPONSIBLE.

in fairness to the docs, a lot of the issue here is they are terrified. they are terrified of the DEA, and liability/the insurances they work for terminating them for what should be their own discretionary Rx practices. it's creating a terrible doctor/patient environment in the US and IMO creating a shitload of bad outcomes.

 

[smokeymcpot42088]

^I want to call bullshit on that; they are real quick to spit that out as an excuse as they have been trained to parrot.... Is there anyway that I can measure the amount of pressure on them? I know I have heard that out of countless lying doctors faces; including one that later was caught trading sexual favors for opi lyrica benzo adderrall, etc....Another one that looked me in the eyes and said that was chased out of town mysteriously (I assume there was pressure involved) and went back to Egypt. (which im sure was not his preference by what was left in the wake)....

but to the OP's question, melatonin is good but way too much is taken usually, you want to be under a mg.. Valerian. BENADRYL, it is the active ingredient in tylenol PM for a reason (watch RLS if you get it), DXM (microdose almost), alcohol works for some.lyrica, GHB. Anything that hits GABA will help ease w/d.

This one is going to sound strange but I have found it helpful.....sharp long inhale with your nose until you are almost out of breath. Pause a half sec or so than snort that last little bit of air like it was the last bit of cocaine on earth......than exhale slowly through your mouth. (the idea is this activates your parasympathetic system). I.E. Smaller pupils, slower heart rate, etc....

Sounds dumb but make sure you get some activity during the day so you are 'physically tired'.

It is alot easier to control the body than it is the brain. (by which I mean it is really tough to 'relax' by trying to wrangle your thoughts, however your body you can control with such methods).

 

[AngelsandFairiesarereal]

in fairness to the docs, a lot of the issue here is they are terrified. they are terrified of the DEA, and liability/the insurances they work for terminating them for what should be their own discretionary Rx practices. it's creating a terrible doctor/patient environment in the US and IMO creating a shitload of bad outcomes.

Why do you think that doctors aren’t advocating for their patients more? Or at least pushing back & trying to get together in numbers and even advocating for themselves by saying they don’t want to have to feel unsafe or liable for treating patients? Sending letters, having meetings, just reaching up to whatever higher powers they can & explaining how this is ill affecting everyone as a whole?

 

[cdin]

Why do you think that doctors aren’t advocating for their patients more? Or at least pushing back & trying to get together in numbers and even advocating for themselves by saying they don’t want to have to feel unsafe or liable for treating patients? Sending letters, having meetings, just reaching up to whatever higher powers they can & explaining how this is ill affecting everyone as a whole?

because the DEA dgaf. ask the pain clinics about that 10 years ago. the fda has made guidance, the dea enforces it. If we want a different system, i think we gotta vote the people in the will create it. i just witnessed my moms psych get his license destroyed re dea inquiries, that shit is incredibly chilling.

 

[Dextro .45]

I am scared to write this but stimulants + low dose opioids or muscle relaxants are very good for anxiety...but it's not exactly harm reduction

Hell ya…my beloved Brompton Cocktail

Oxycodone 10-20mg IR
Ritalin 40mg IR
Diazepam 10mg
Alprazolam 1mg
Pregabalin 300mg
Ethanol 3.oz Gin X 3-6 drinks

 

[smokeymcpot42088]

because the DEA dgaf. ask the pain clinics about that 10 years ago. the fda has made guidance, the dea enforces it. If we want a different system, i think we gotta vote the people in the will create it. i just witnessed my moms psych get his license destroyed re dea inquiries, that shit is incredibly chilling.

Oh crap forreal. I am sorry about your moms psych. That shit is incredibly chilling;, only first hand report I have heard of this being an issue with a doctor 'on the level' which I will presume your moms shrink is based on your high opinion of doctors.

I would ask you to message me but I realize how chilling such a thing is; so if you want to talk im accepting messages. If not I totally get that and I would be wise to STFU too but the empathy is strong.

I hope that whatever happens to this doctor that your mother is alright and in left in good hands. God bless the good doctors (and I dont mean the pillpushers) the real doctors that keep up with studies and have there patient's needs prioritized.

 

[AngelsandFairiesarereal]

because the DEA dgaf. ask the pain clinics about that 10 years ago. the fda has made guidance, the dea enforces it. If we want a different system, i think we gotta vote the people in the will create it. i just witnessed my moms psych get his license destroyed re dea inquiries, that shit is incredibly chilling.

I’m a pain patient. I can’t even begin to explain the stuff I have been seeing people going through & myself as well. There’s a lot of human rites being taken away. I would get into it all but I’m kind of too sad about it all right now.

Anyways, I hope your mom’s doing okay
Hugs

 

[Methamphetanonymous]

^This is alot of truth. Personally I feel I need the benzos long term......but like Cdin says this is a super personal journey and most often it isn't the user that chooses to stop. What they are doing stateside is criminal. Straight malpractice.

It's so complex too. It's easy to connect broad dots in retrospect, like with opioids being overprescribed, then suddenly cracked down on by the DEA, and then folks who were on prescription turn to H and then OD on fent without knowing what it was at the time. Each step of that journey has a lot of people pidgeoned into an assumed role. I even for the longest time assumed prescription opiates were a massive problem. Only in the past year or two have I realized how important they were to so many people.

Benzos are one I find pretty unusual. For example, I have pretty debilitating anxiety if I let it get out of control due to autism/ADHD. Generally I request no benzos as I had a very bad whiskey problem from '09-'18, but I was going through some uniquely tough circumstances at work and my psych insisted. I realized when I got to the pharmacy she wrote me down for 120 1mg clonazepam for 60 days. So 1mg twice a day. Which I'm almost certain would have had me in some nasty withdrawal with serious rebound anxiety.

I talked to her about it some other time, and she actually seemed like she didn't realize or believe me how quickly they can make one dependent even if they don't feel "addicted". I didn't really know what to think. I suppose there are a lot of drugs for a lot of different kinds of patients and issues, but surely doctors know about benzos?

 

[cdin]

It's so complex too. It's easy to connect broad dots in retrospect, like with opioids being overprescribed, then suddenly cracked down on by the DEA, and then folks who were on prescription turn to H and then OD on fent without knowing what it was at the time. Each step of that journey has a lot of people pidgeoned into an assumed role. I even for the longest time assumed prescription opiates were a massive problem. Only in the past year or two have I realized how important they were to so many people.

Benzos are one I find pretty unusual. For example, I have pretty debilitating anxiety if I let it get out of control due to autism/ADHD. Generally I request no benzos as I had a very bad whiskey problem from '09-'18, but I was going through some uniquely tough circumstances at work and my psych insisted. I realized when I got to the pharmacy she wrote me down for 120 1mg clonazepam for 60 days. So 1mg twice a day. Which I'm almost certain would have had me in some nasty withdrawal with serious rebound anxiety.

I talked to her about it some other time, and she actually seemed like she didn't realize or believe me how quickly they can make one dependent even if they don't feel "addicted". I didn't really know what to think. I suppose there are a lot of drugs for a lot of different kinds of patients and issues, but surely doctors know about benzos?

they are slowly awakening. but the level of informedness is sadening ime.

 

[smokeymcpot42088]

^Methanonymous -- Absolutely, hindsight is 20 20 and everyone is an armchair quarterback quick to google self diagnose. We live in a capitalist system. If it is advertised and you walk in asking for help; and they make their living by treating people... Well I feel the economics speak for themselves.

All I expect is decency and an attempt. In that regards doctors are failing right now IMPO. What sane doctor would clean pull someone off of something like opis or benzos after 20+ years and good rapport **no incidents arrests begging for early refills etc etc**....I just find that straight abuse of power. It is arguable that prescribing benzos long term is a bit irresponsible as well. Kinda screwin the patient on the way in and out with such practices?

But I also believe the best advice I have for living long is avoid the damn doctors and hospitals like the plague...as you could literally catch the plague in some of them. So 02 cents.

 

[WellTram]

^Methanonymous -- Absolutely, hindsight is 20 20 and everyone is an armchair quarterback quick to google self diagnose. We live in a capitalist system. If it is advertised and you walk in asking for help; and they make their living by treating people... Well I feel the economics speak for themselves.

All I expect is decency and an attempt. In that regards doctors are failing right now IMPO. What sane doctor would clean pull someone off of something like opis or benzos after 20+ years and good rapport **no incidents arrests begging for early refills etc etc**....I just find that straight abuse of power. It is arguable that prescribing benzos long term is a bit irresponsible as well. Kinda screwin the patient on the way in and out with such practices?

But I also believe the best advice I have for living long is avoid the damn doctors and hospitals like the plague...as you could literally catch the plague in some of them. So 02 cents.

I was declined acces to the buprenorphine therapy. I walked in, told i am on opioid hor more then 10 years, suffered too much cold turkey wds and seizures i can't do that anymore, told absolute true which i am on and which i was using in past. Next he asked why my psychiatrist is SELLING TO ME 160x10mg diazepam pills...that was weird...i answered, i was on xanax since 18 and now i suffer physical dependendence from benzodiazepines....he thought i want to buy suboxon from him for fun or what the f.. I even had to pay 45& for just being able to talk with that "doktor"....his final verdict was : no therapy for u, stop benzos and than come back and i will prescribe buprenorphine....waste of time, waste of money....i wanted to be on buprenorphine so i don't have to think every few hours i need another pills of oxy or something and how much i should take how much i should took that day...i thought 1 drug, in skin patch Once every 3 days would be much more controlable ...and one extreme bullshit he said : in opioid wd u will only feel more pain....he doesn't even know that opi wd is diarrhea, vomiting, fever, restlesness, hot/cold flashed....som i am tapering on my own, counting pills every day...no help.

 

[cdin]

I was declined acces to the buprenorphine therapy. I walked in, told i am on opioid hor more then 10 years, suffered too much cold turkey wds and seizures i can't do that anymore, told absolute true which i am on and which i was using in past. Next he asked why my psychiatrist is SELLING TO ME 160x10mg diazepam pills...that was weird...i answered, i was on xanax since 18 and now i suffer physical dependendence from benzodiazepines....he thought i want to buy suboxon from him for fun or what the f.. I even had to pay 45& for just being able to talk with that "doktor"....his final verdict was : no therapy for u, stop benzos and than come back and i will prescribe buprenorphine....waste of time, waste of money....i wanted to be on buprenorphine so i don't have to think every few hours i need another pills of oxy or something and how much i should take how much i should took that day...i thought 1 drug, in skin patch Once every 3 days would be much more controlable ...and one extreme bullshit he said : in opioid wd u will only feel more pain....he doesn't even know that opi wd is diarrhea, vomiting, fever, restlesness, hot/cold flashed....som i am tapering on my own, counting pills every day...no help.

im really sorry to hear you suffering like that. also tapering oxy. chronic pain patient left to manage my own pain because no one will rx narcotics, but it's gotten too expensive ;P i have been considering suboxone but i think i may just go for living in pain instead :/

 

[WellTram]

im really sorry to hear you suffering like that. also tapering oxy. chronic pain patient left to manage my own pain because no one will rx narcotics, but it's gotten too expensive ;P i have been considering suboxone but i think i may just go for living in pain instead :/

It's expensive yes :/ i have RX for dihydrocodeine ( surprisingly potent ) but it is very small amount fór me, than i am using tramadol - less expensive than oxy, can be great but very dangerous and oxy is expensive....and benzos are All prescribed by one doc for all that time, starting 30x 0,25mg alprazolam per month, than 10x30x1mg pills and now 8x20x10mg diazepam pills...almost every doc is shocked and no help for us who need help with opioid addiction, is moral collapse of society...i don't want them to feel high, i need to calm my pain just for at least 20% and idealy by 1 dose per 3-7 days and not wathing on clock controling if 4 or 6 hours have passed...something wrong happened in this pain medication and other "abusable" med. system.

 

[smokeymcpot42088]

WellTram- The problem you are running into is most bupe clinics have a fairly strict no benzo policy. They don't have to have this policy; it is not a law of any kind. I know someone that was scripted ritalin for the first time ever by there suboxone doctor.

This is policy not law, what you need to do is tell them that you are a long term benzo patient who requires buprenorphine treatment and ask if it is even a possibility before showing up. (idk if they still do but they had internet sub docs for a long time, mine is over zoom (or something similar) ) but the guy use to have an office in town so idk?

That is a bit cruel and taking your 45 for nothin was just wrong; he knows damn well you need every penny. Try to find a private practicioner and not someone in the hospital, rehab/probation circuit and you may do a lot better. Idk though.....Not a doctor fan. They are basically just middlemen at this point as I am already quite familiar with me at my age. If you aren't injured in a way you can't fix yourself avoid them. My doc is an ex addict himself so he gets it pretty well.

 

[hereisronnie]

so, i can only reflect my own experience. i was burned in a fire, 3rd degree, developed major clinical PTSD, also have GAD, my own course through this shit has been long, and difficult. I tried for many years medicating with ethanol, benzos etc. --- my experience is that i could not really take enough of any GABA agent to siufficiently medicate my symptoms (let alone the fact that in the US at least, people are being thrown systemically off of long term benzo rxes. they are coming after them as they did opioids 8 years ago. My mom is currently in process of being thrown off a 30+ year benzo Rx, ive had to do support for countless people across the country dealin w that shit) - and in fact that attempting to medicate the symptoms of the anxiety both kept me from pursuing some other solutions, and made my anxiety worse and worse as the GABA PAM agents did progressive damage to my GABA systems.

I was terrified when i was ordered off the benzos as well. What I have found though, is that it truly was keeping me from reaching deeper resolution on the anxiety issues, and making them worse over time. Since then, althought the withdrawal was crippling, I am glad i got a long taper/was able to take care of it in a reasonable way instead of been thrown off without time to deal with the taper. I have found that workin w therapists that i could actually work with (took me like 12 people to find people ACTUALLY versed in severe anxiety and trauma recovery) - CBT, EMDR and a few other treatment modalities really helped me towards resolution. Ibogaine was integral in repairing the PTSD/TBI damage. but long story short - i found no relief long term in the GABA agents, and indeed now for my life, I can see how treating the symptoms of anxiety was not handling shit. I really had to find ways to address my underlying issues to find good relief.


Outside of that, modifying diet, really increasing exercise, and getting my GABA receptors healed is what actually helped. Also I have found non-damaging relief in kava kava and amanita (the muscimol specifically) if i need help and don't want to damage my brain further. Also propranolol I find AMAZING for dealing w the physical side of my anxiety. which really assists me in using actual coping tools for dealing w the mental part,

Either way, I know this is a super personal journey, and I hope you get some resolution fr.

The best advice, propanolol (this beta blocker not any others) early to bed, talk early Morning walk watching the sunrise. No alcohol, no energy drinks or cigs. It's still going to be uncomfortable for months, don't relaspe it's so much painful everytime you start over.
You may have to take a low dose of another benzo but just know as soon as you try to sneak an extra to relieve the dizziness and uncomfortableness your done. You start right back to day one.

Start now and take fmla if possible

 

[hereisronnie]

^This is alot of truth. Personally I feel I need the benzos long term......but like Cdin says this is a super personal journey and most often it isn't the user that chooses to stop. What they are doing stateside is criminal. Straight malpractice. I have heard (from pretty reliable sources) that in the UK they are just embracing the FACT you have been on benzos for 15+ years, you are probably a lifer....and yea that probably means some doc messed up at some point; but not always! --- I find in the US almost almost 9 out of 10 people are somehow "self diagnosed" by which I mean they saw an add on TV and thought; well yea I wanna be happier, that looks great. Or oh crap I can't sleep I should look into that. Im depressed, i think? (Nah I think you just see straight; the world is umm slightly depressing IMHO).-- Advertising prescription meds is REALLY MESSED UP, you don't show up at the mechanic and tell him/her/w/e(else) what is wrong with your car. You know that you can usually bypass the 'mechanic'.

Comparing an MD to a mechanic is obviously reductive but I think the metaphor holds well enough. Docs in the states are not that well informed. Trust me if you show up and tell them you are taking say 30mg xanax a day they will laugh and say its not possible (unless your uber rich I suppose?). They will give you an SSRI real quick no matter what the issue IME; which should be OBVIOUSLY IRRESPONSIBLE.

I was military and buying Xanax for 12 years 8mg 10mg everyday. I could keep buying them from Mexico but the cost, I didn't remember anything was sleep walking for years. Tappering just prolonged the misery I've cold Turkey still very nervous and uncomfortable but I can walk do small errands without profusly sweating and shaking. I only hope if it got that bad eventually it has to get better.

 

[smokeymcpot42088]

IME mexican pharms are almost hit and miss. Tapering does not make things shorter but at 10mg a day you wold be at risk of pretty serious seizures which CAN result in death.

Have things started to get better? If not I *suggest strongly* that you take the smallest amount possible to avoid seizing. 2-3 mg?? you know better than me.

If things are getting better than I would try and stay comfortable. Take whatever helps as long as you don't catch an addiction. Benadryl is suggestion 1.

 

[smokeymcpot42088]

Why do you think that doctors aren’t advocating for their patients more? Or at least pushing back & trying to get together in numbers and even advocating for themselves by saying they don’t want to have to feel unsafe or liable for treating patients? Sending letters, having meetings, just reaching up to whatever higher powers they can & explaining how this is ill affecting everyone as a whole?

Let me give an alternative answer. They make good money, live comfortable lifes, and have access to a script pad. (pretty sweet gig)

They aren't advocating for their patients because they would have to rock the boat. Almost bite the hand that feeds them.

Simple answer: There is no benefit for them in doing so. A doctor sees you the same way the guy making your burger does. $$ for time, minimum amount of effort, you are just another #.

THAT OATH MEANS NOTHING. Same amount it means to the police. The defendant. Our last president. etc.

 

[bluecollartweeker]

Soma is the closest i agree, but on a 5 day soma binge i completely destroyed my life so never have more than 5 pills available if your prone to redosing or forgetting. Ive danced woth soma many times and each time something i cherish is gone.