Benzo addiction - Cold turkey

[Opioten]

Here is a little update. Last night before I went to bed I just couldn't take my pills so I decided to go CT. I had very good dreams this night btw (!) Its now aprox. 36 hours since my last dose which was 10 mg.

Thank you ketaman and jamesbrown - what you said makes me worry much less

Today I have alot of plans so I might sleep like a baby again tonight - I sure hope so.

 

[Cane2theLeft]

Keta and jamesBrown are absolutely correct, you are not risking a medical emergency with the doses you are coming off of... the reason I highlighted all the information above is because regardless of how quickly or slowly you come off the valium, what are you going to do after that when you have bad anxiety?

Its the same situation with 90% of addicts (I am NOT saying you are an addict) who post on here looking for help with their withdrawal from whatever substance... they focus solely on the short-term physical and psychological aspects of quitting, quit and then when all the shit that lead them to use in the first place is still there... what to they do?

Most try futilely to resist but go back and cycle and cycle and cycle endlessly using then when that gets too problematic in their lives, they focus on the short-term of "how do I get past withdrawals". Inevitably their anxiety creeps up, or their old friends call them up, or they fight with their relatives or whatever drove them to abuse drugs in the first place rears its ugly head, they are left in the same place they started: with no way to cope except finding some kind of chemical escape.

Its like whatever causes someone to use is a burglar that keeps breaking in through the same window and every time that burglar breaks in you say "I have to replace the window".

You keep replacing the window and the same burglar keeps coming back and breaking in but you can't have an empty window so you keep putting a glass pane in there.

Until you figure out that you need to cut the point of access off and board that motherfucker up, the reason you use is going to keep breaking in and leaving a trail of glass all over the floor that you will inevitably step on and have to clean up.

The psychiatrist is certainly a good start, I see that like making an appointment to talk to a security consultant. Its a jumping off point but until you figure out why that burglar keeps breaking in and what you can do to prevent it, its just going to keep happening.

You need to find a way to fully address why you have anxiety and what you can do about it or you're just going to keep having to resort to chemically numbing it away every time it gets unbearable.

 

[Opioten]

Cane2theLeft:

You are right all along. I am an addict but since I got my anxiety disorder there has been times where I am not using any kind of drug in like 3 months. I have seen many docters and many other psychiatrist but the anxiety is always there - and I think it never will go away 100%. My personal life has of course a lot to do with my drug usage. If I feel real good - my anxiety is almost gone. But it doesn't take much before it returns at full speed.

This is something I have to work with. I'll try to be clean for as long as possible to see how the anxiety is and how I feel.

 

[Cane2theLeft]

You feel like shit after the burglar breaks in and you have a big ass mess to clean up but then you put a new window pane in, the mess is gone for now and you think, "Finally, I can relax and not worry my xbox 360 getting jacked because I have a new window!"

You play the xbox for 3 months feeling great but the burglar can still get in through the window!

"Staying clean as long as possible" is just sitting there with a new window pane HOPING the burglar doesn't come back.

Until you figure out why he keeps targeting you (why you keep feeling shitty, why you keep having anxiety that comes back) and how to address it, its just a matter of time.

Trying to be clean as long as possible is not addressing the problem, its doing nothing and hoping the problem just goes away.

 

[Opioten]

Yea I know it's a mess - I have tried several times to figure out why I have this generalized anxiety disorder when I have replaced the window but it always gets broken again.

Being clean from the benzoes is a beginning - I am considering a drastic lifestyle change, but it's not as easy as it sounds

Mental illness sux!

 

[Cane2theLeft]

I'm sorry if I made it sound easy, dealing with addiction and mental illness is extremely difficult. Thankfully both fields that provide treatment are starting to integrate and become better equipped to treat dual-diagnosis clients, but we still have a long way to go.

I have no idea if formal addiction treatment is the right path for you, but treatment professionals are very well trained in providing accurate assessments to determine *if* you might require some kind of formal treatment and what level of care would be appropriate. Furthermore, many facilities offer this service for free so it really won't hurt to get someone who knows a lot about addiction and mental illness to help you pinpoint where you're at and work with you to design a path to get you to where you'd like to be.

I'm studying addictions counseling presently and although styles vary, the predominant sentiment in the field is that counseling is a collaborative effort where the counselor helps the client figure out where they want to be and offers guidance and support in helping them get there.

Lots of people have terrible experience with treatment professionals, especially when its mandatory, but you CAN find a good counselor to help you get to where YOU want to be.

This is all basically broad strokes but if you'd like any details specific to an area of treatment or so forth, feel free to send me a message.

You shouldn't give up hope in finding relief, you have not exhausted every avenue and you're not pre-destined to be miserable. It takes work, but the results make it more than worth it... I don't just mean addiction treatment here but there are lots of possible ways to find relief and whatever form it takes, we could all use some support in helping us get to where we'd like to be in life. This might be through friends, relatives, counselors, doctors, teachers, artists, writers or just people on a forum with shared experiences.

 

[HdoubleODeezy]

I'm sorry if I made it sound easy, dealing with addiction and mental illness is extremely difficult.

^ very true.. im bipolar and addicted to benzos and opiates

I'm on Zyprexa and a few others for bipolar, a klonpin taper to get off benzos (I'm half way through it :D ) and suboxone for opiate maintenance. I know most likely i will be on the bipolar meds my whole life, i have anxiety but have found an alternative to benzos to deal with it so i can come off those, but i also feel i will need suboxone or some type of opiate for the rest of my life as it seems to help tremendously with bipolar *for me*.. having addictions and mental health issues together sucks, but i haven't killed myself yet

 

[PillPoppingAnimal]

You feel like shit after the burglar breaks in and you have a big ass mess to clean up but then you put a new window pane in, the mess is gone for now and you think, "Finally, I can relax and not worry my xbox 360 getting jacked because I have a new window!"

You play the xbox for 3 months feeling great but the burglar can still get in through the window!

"Staying clean as long as possible" is just sitting there with a new window pane HOPING the burglar doesn't come back.
Until you figure out why he keeps targeting you (why you keep feeling shitty, why you keep having anxiety that comes back) and how to address it, its just a matter of time.

Trying to be clean as long as possible is not addressing the problem, its doing nothing and hoping the problem just goes away.

cane2left
this might be the first time i liked one of your post...probably because you're not warning and banning me...

good metaphor, never looked at it that way.

...but it is possible to get over the hoping part, and to just knowing. rare though.

 

[Phill]

What you need to do is talk to a doctor who can help you with an effective taper. It's very unlikely that you'll be able to do it yourself using diazepam. I was on Ativan for 7 years . When i was ready to stop my doctor switched me to phenobarbital and then I slowly tapered off that for like 6 months. I had 3 seizures trying to taper myself without the doctors help. And even with doing it properly I had terrible withdrawal for a year and a half after. It took me that long to feel normal after that. I wish you the best of luck with your struggle and I strongly suggest that you have a doctor help you with this. Take care

 

[Pegasus]

Opioten, if you're not going to take the advice, that's fine, but I'm going to close this thread if you don't have anything further. Cold turkey benzo withdrawal is not a within the scope of harm reduction if there are alternatives.

 

[Opioten]

Some say I'm fine going CK and others say I need a taper plan. It's now 60 hours since my last 10 mg dose and I'm still feeling fine. It's not like I have been eating benzoes everyday for several months. I have had my breaks and I mentally feel I can do this. And again - I am in contact with my docter.

If you want to close this thread there's nothing I really can do about it - but I sure hope you don't caus' it makes me feel better to have a place to write about my progress.

 

[bronson]

^ I too hope this doesn't get closed for your sake. I know when you're going through something like this, talking to people who can relate is one of the most important things. At the level of usage described, I don't feel you're in any real danger, you might just feel unpleasant for a while.

The main thing is just to, as you said, keep in contact with your dr. When you're coming off benzos I would let your dr. know if you start feeling the slightest bit off. That way you can rest assured it's nothing serious.

 

[Pegasus]

I'm not going to close it. It frustrates me that someone like deaf eye will post such personal experiences to try to help someone understand that benzos are not a drug that you cold turkey, but it just gets dismissed. I kind of didn't see the point of the thread in this case since the advice was dismissed, but if you're getting something out of the thread then I'm not going to close it.

 

[Opioten]

I see the problem with the line between tapering to a very tiny dose and to go cold turkey at a certain dose.

It's now 90 hours since my last 10 mg dose. I have little - to no withdrawel. Increase of anxiety (obviously) and minor muscle spasms (3-4 times a day and it lasts only within a blink of an eye).

So far so good. I have no cravings at all =) Yay for me

 

[sturdychinfilms]

I have been on and off of benzos for about 4 years. They bring the worst withdrawals of any drug ive ever tried. For me Cold Turkey is out of the question. Like everyone says, the withdrawals from benzos can KILL YOU! Tapering is the best way. What i always did was taper slowly and just have a couple of drinks to help me get to sleep. If you are tapering effeciently and slowly your anxiety should not be bad at all and it is relativley painless.

 

[DaftPunkFan]

I have been on and off of benzos for about 4 years. They bring the worst withdrawals of any drug ive ever tried. For me Cold Turkey is out of the question. Like everyone says, the withdrawals from benzos can KILL YOU! Tapering is the best way. What i always did was taper slowly and just have a couple of drinks to help me get to sleep. If you are tapering effeciently and slowly your anxiety should not be bad at all and it is relativley painless.

At what dose would you say people are going to deal with withdrawal symptoms?

I have been taking 1mg Xanax and/or .5mg Klonopin almost daily, maybe 6 days a week for a few years now. The more I read about how frightening withdrawal symptoms are, the more I hope that I am not getting myself into this trap.

I don't use Benzos recreationally at all, they really help with my anxiety. However, if I am going to be facing hell when I do end up stopping them, I really want to try to stop as soon as possible. Somebody please let me know if I am going to be ok. The thing that scares me the most is the psychosis that is described from withdrawals.

If I can continue with this dosage without having to worry about withdrawal symptoms, then I would like to do that. Otherwise, I really think I should start tapering as soon as possible. I know I am on very low doses of each benzo compared to most people here, but I just want to be safe. Thanks :D

 

[Phill]

Daftpunkfan.... I'm surprised that after taking 1mg of Xanax almost everyday for a couple years you still find that dose effective. I started with 3mg of Ativan a day and at the end of my use I was up to 30mg sometimes more a day. I would have to take it every 30min or so to keep away the withdrawal symptoms. Im thinking even at thAt low dose you might still feel some withdrawal if you try and stop. Hopefully the fact that you haven't upped your dose might make it easier for you to stop when you want. Just to be careful I suggest you consult your doc before you try to stop if you wish to. I would just say try and stay at that low dose And if you find yourself needing more I suggest you think about stopping. What I went through when I stopped benzos was hell and it lasted for more than a year, I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. Also I started taking it for anxiety not for recreational purposes.

 

[DaftPunkFan]

Daftpunkfan.... I'm surprised that after taking 1mg of Xanax almost everyday for a couple years you still find that dose effective. I started with 3mg of Ativan a day and at the end of my use I was up to 30mg sometimes more a day. I would have to take it every 30min or so to keep away the withdrawal symptoms. Im thinking even at thAt low dose you might still feel some withdrawal if you try and stop. Hopefully the fact that you haven't upped your dose might make it easier for you to stop when you want. Just to be careful I suggest you consult your doc before you try to stop if you wish to. I would just say try and stay at that low dose And if you find yourself needing more I suggest you think about stopping. What I went through when I stopped benzos was hell and it lasted for more than a year, I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. Also I started taking it for anxiety not for recreational purposes.

Thanks a lot for your advice. I've been making sure that I haven't upped my dose by that much. Sometimes I definitely want more, but I'm afraid that I'll eventually start taking twice as much everyday, and so on...

I'm going to try to try to cut down to maybe 5 days a week or less if I can do it. What I'm afraid of is having a HUGE withdrawal time like you experienced. I can't imagine going through that for more than a year!

I guess what I'm wondering is whether or not people who stay at low doses like I have go through such a long withdrawal, or does that just happen to people who are taking very large doses everyday.

 

[Mr. Squiggle!]

Ain't nuthing but a thing dude.

What you are experiencing is 'rebound anxiety', not full blown benzo withdrawals. Given your usgae, I would recommend cutting down 5 millies of Valium every 2 weeks.

Dude, I mean, it's like, throwing some bloody meat up in the water. Sharks will come and get your arse.

Also, mental health issues are a predominant precursor to the severity of benzodiazepine withdrawals. If you suffer from extreme Generalized Anxiety Disorder, then your withdrawals are naturally going to be worse, because you will be looking out for any of the checklist that Wikipedia suggests in it's page "Benzodiazepine withdrawal syndrome".

Let me know, how you go in a couple weeks time, via. PM.

 

[spaceyourbass]

- Is it dangerous to do alot of cardio etc. during the withdrawels? Higher risk for seizures maybe?

Yes yes and YES. Stress, especially physical stress, might triple the likelihood of having a seizure after quiting benzos.

Also do not expect to go through withdrawals (I'm guessing you mean mental w/d's) for a year. That would be extremely abnormal, and nothing that an anti-depressant couldn't fix.

There is a BIG difference between being addicted to a drug and dependent on a drug. People who are addicted are dependent, but people who are dependent are not neessarily addicted. Addiction is a problem, it is abuse, even though your body may be technically addicted to a drug when you are dependent on it (like blood pressure/diabetes meds). Plenty of people are dependent on drugs that keep their lives normal and keep them alive. Being dependent on a drug is nothing to be ashamed of, it is simply a product of our advanced medical times.